Scottish players in action 21/22

[Scot1]

5 minutes ago, bdgsct said:

If experimenting I'd sooner try Hickey at Right of a back 3 with Patterson at wing back. It does leave us short of options in these positions of the bench but probably improves our 11 with Hendry or Porteus dropping out.

I think Porteous and Hendry have been fine. I’d certainly still start Hendry in the centre of the 3 even if Hanley is back and available. 

[mccaughey85]

13 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

They are both playing the same role, it would be one or the other.

Eh?

No it wouldn't. Both McGregor and gilmour start matches together and they both play a similar role in midfield.

I am suggesting Christie partners McGregor instead of gilmour. Christie is quite tenacious in his tackling and has endless stamina. He seems to be playing well in the deep lying midfield role at Bournemouth so why not see if he can do it for Scotland. Maybe even try him next to gilmour if McGregor gets injured. If either McGregor or gilmour gets injured then it's only McLean that can fill in unless we want to play mcginn or mctominay in the deep lying role but that's unlikely given how much goals they get in the attacking midfield role.

[Third Lanark]

3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Maybe bet to give Christie a chance in the deeper midfield role next to McGregor in our friendlies. He seems to be doing well there for Bournemouth.

Yes. He seems to have lost his scoring touch - always thought his shooting was erratic but he could be the ideal partner for Gilmour or even Jack.

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, Scot1 said:

They are both playing the same role, it would be one or the other.

I prefer having a right footer next to a lefty. Calmac and Christie both lefties.

[Scot1]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Eh?

No it wouldn't. Both McGregor and gilmour start matches together and they both play a similar role in midfield.

I am suggesting Christie partners McGregor instead of gilmour. Christie is quite tenacious in his tackling and has endless stamina. He seems to be playing well in the deep lying midfield role at Bournemouth so why not see if he can do it for Scotland. Maybe even try him next to gilmour if McGregor gets injured. If either McGregor or gilmour gets injured then it's only McLean that can fill in unless we want to play mcginn or mctominay in the deep lying role but that's unlikely given how much goals they get in the attacking midfield role.

They are both left footed, playmakers, you could try to get Christie to play another role alongside McGregor but he plays a very similar role for Bournemouth at the moment. Interestingly enough Christie plays in a 2 alongside Lewis Cook, a defensive midfielder. 
I’ll make the point I wrote a few posts back, can you remember many teams that play without a defensive midfielder in the team? Someone to put in tackles, stop opposition attacks, etc. Regardless of formations and the number of midfielders, there is either a specific “defensive midfielder” a specialist in the role or you will have a multifaceted player like a Declan Rice, a Rodri who performs the role amongst others or you’ll sometimes have 2 well rounded midfield who’ll play in a double pivot, 1 sits, 1 presses, which is how Everton play at the moment. We have none of this, and I don’t think a midfield of McGregor and Gilmour is so special that it negates the need. Especially against better teams, we might get away with it against Cyprus or Georgia, but I think better teams, like the teams we will face in the Euros will exploit this. Just like Ukraine and Ireland did.  McTominay isn’t at his best, most effective deep. He’s a box to box midfielder not a holding, sitting, defensive midfielder.
Someone said Tierney plays in there, no he doesn’t, Tierney is very rarely near central midfield. Id imagine if you were to look at Tierneys heat map when he plays for Scotland it would be very similar to Robertson’s, it would almost exclusively be up and down the left side of the pitch. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scot1

[Scot1]

18 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I prefer having a right footer next to a lefty. Calmac and Christie both lefties.

I think so too, I think he could compete with McGregor for the same position / role. Although I’d have no problems trying it out in the Friendlies and seeing how it looks. But it would mean one would be playing a different role, he would be more of a holding, defensive midfielder role. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scot1

[BryanBlessed]

So if Hanley comes back and gets picked (which he probably will), who is taking the RCB position? Hendry or Porteous. Porteous probably has the advantage based on recent national-team performances and the league he's playing in. I'm assuming McKenna will be the cover at LCB if Tierney isn't available.

 

Adams looked decent for Southampton yesterday and good to see him score but Fraser looked really good. 

[Diamond Scot]

2 hours ago, bdgsct said:

If experimenting I'd sooner try Hickey at Right of a back 3 with Patterson at wing back. It does leave us short of options in these positions of the bench but probably improves our 11 with Hendry or Porteus dropping out.

Not disagreeing as I also think Hickey would be solid as a RCB but do you not think Porteus in particular has played really well at RCB for us?

[ceudmilefailte]

Patterson on as a sub just before half time for Everton.

Chance for him to shine?

 

[syecosse]

Patterson and Cairney outstanding again, Brown lucky to stay on the pitch but rated well otherwise v Man city.

[todd]

Ferguson captain for Bologna today

[er yir macaroon]

5 hours ago, Scot1 said:

It all depends on how you want to play the game, I believe that if you want to go to Germany and sit in against the teams in our group and try to hit on the counter then stick with how we are set up. Or go to Germany and try to dominate games? I believe with the proper set up we can go and take the game to Hungary and Switzerland. We have the players in midfield and the wingbacks to do so. But I think you need a balanced  midfield, a good defensive midfielder to do that.

I’m not really a stats guy, but if you look at the Nathan Patterson’s thread on the Everton forum. There are guys there that were putting up stats that showed that Patterson was among the top young full backs playing in the top leagues in Europe for his defensive stats. Patterson isn’t a bad defender. He’s played against top wingers like Mitoma, Luis Diaz, Foden etc and had good games against them. You’ll also see on this thread and the Ashley Young thread the disbelief amongst Everton fans as to why Ashley Young has been starting games ahead of Patterson, Young has been terrible at both left and right back and he’s been sent off against Liverpool, constantly booked for fouling wingers who’ve got past him, he’s been directly responsible for penalties against Everton and goals scored against. Patterson has done none of the above and has actually started to get assists before Young took his place and recently in their last game coming on as a sub against Newcastle, again something Young doesn’t do as he rarely ventures over the half way line. Young had his best game for Everton recently against Newcastle playing as a right sided midfielder / winger. 
You’ve got the players positions mixed up, McTominay plays on the right, if you look at  his goals a number come from the fact that he has made runs from right to left because our offense nearly always comes down the left, but he does play on the right. 
Why would I want to change the way we set up? Because I believe we can be a better team with a couple of tweaks, and I believe if set up correctly we can take the game to good teams rather than just be a counter attacking outfit. I believe we can get some more from this squad of players. And I also believe we will need to get more or we won’t do much in Germany. I think it would be a mistake to go to Germany and sit in against Hungary and Switzerland, even the Germans. I think we should have a go at the Germans, take the game to them, they’re not a great German side. They’ve obviously got some excellent players, but they’re not a great team. 
My suggestions are hardly ripping up the template, a couple of adjustments nothing major but I think they would have a positive affect on how we play. 
If I was the manager of Hungary or Switzerland I’d be looking at our games against Ukraine and Ireland where our midfield was basically made ineffective, because it’s basically the same set up in central midfield. 
 

Good to see some support for Patterson. He really seems to get it tight on here and it’s absolutely ridiculous. Because Hickey is good, Patterson must therefore be bad. He’s a young defender playing against some of the best players in the world and he’s doing absolute fine. We’re lucky he’s Scottish. 

[Burj_Alba]

9 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Good to see some support for Patterson. He really seems to get it tight on here and it’s absolutely ridiculous. Because Hickey is good, Patterson must therefore be bad. He’s a young defender playing against some of the best players in the world and he’s doing absolute fine. We’re lucky he’s Scottish. 

Yip, now that Coleman and Young are injured and not very young (pun totally intended) it's time for Patterson to step up and really claim the RB spot for Everton. 

[syecosse]

13 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Good to see some support for Patterson. He really seems to get it tight on here and it’s absolutely ridiculous. Because Hickey is good, Patterson must therefore be bad. He’s a young defender playing against some of the best players in the world and he’s doing absolute fine. We’re lucky he’s Scottish. 

I would say that it is probably more to do with who he played for, why some may not be fans rather than his ability.

[Scot1]

59 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Good to see some support for Patterson. He really seems to get it tight on here and it’s absolutely ridiculous. Because Hickey is good, Patterson must therefore be bad. He’s a young defender playing against some of the best players in the world and he’s doing absolute fine. We’re lucky he’s Scottish. 

Apparently another good performance today against Mudryk. Didn’t get much of a chance to get forward but limited to Ukrainian to very few opportunities. 
He’s still got lots to learn and no doubt will have shaky moments but hopefully he’ll get a run in Everton’s team now and begin to pick up the experience that he needs. 
As far as both Hickey and Patterson go, I’m a big fan of both. They are both very good footballers, Hickey has the advantage of being 2 footed. I do think it’s a trade off. And I personally think it’s worth putting Patterson in the right wing back role because he is better offensivel, especially since  we have Porteous sitting behind him to help out defensively. And in my starting 11, Hickey as defensive midfield would at times also be perfect for helping out defensively in the wide areas both left and right, as well as centrally. One of the things I like about Hickey which I think would help him, makes him suitable for defensive midfield is his conservatism on the ball, he very rarely gives the ball away or plays “Hail Mary” passes which are very unlikely to succeed. Patterson is more of a “risk taker”. But that’s fine as the set up means there’s always cover behind Patterson and the risk is worth it for the reward, and Patterson has quality on the ball. Because Hickey is 2 footed he is able to find passes to other Scotland players even when in tight situations which would be more difficult for a 1 footed player. Also his height, physicality, athleticism, aggression, pace, mobility, strength in the tackle.  He can also strike a nice ball from the edge of the box with both feet. I do think he would be better suited to playing as a defensive midfielder. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scot1

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

Cairney motm, over 100 passes and an assist. Surely he could be an alternative to Jack

Edited December 10, 2023 by Bobby Russell's Lovechild

[HighlandScot]

I would love to see Tom Cairney in the squad, but unfortunately highly unlikely.

[Hertsscot]

I do like Patterson. He was always a standout for the u21s. I think he's shown great resilience at Everton, it would have been very easy to let his head drop under the circumstances. Some Everton fans have dismissed him because he's made mistakes defensively. But he's a young lad and that's what happens. They just need to look across the city. I saw Robbo play for Hull a few times and at least once a game he'd make those sort of mistakes but he learnt from them, and hopefully Nathan will as well.

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, er yir macaroon said:

Good to see some support for Patterson. He really seems to get it tight on here and it’s absolutely ridiculous. Because Hickey is good, Patterson must therefore be bad. He’s a young defender playing against some of the best players in the world and he’s doing absolute fine. We’re lucky he’s Scottish. 

I dont think anybody on here has been giving Patterson it tight. Several have said he isnt good defensively and his main strong points are going forward. I think thats a fair assessment.

He has potential and in certain games for Scotland he may be preferred over Hickey due to his attacking. He is a great backup to Hickey and we have come a long way from SOD and Palmer however lets also be honest about his career to date. He couldnt displace Taviner at Rangers (although he was younger), got a good move to Everton but under 2 different managers hasnt come close to establishing himself. He is currently 3rd choice RB at Everton behind 2 players long past their prime. Given his manager id guess that this is mainly due to the afforementioned defensive vulnerbilities.

You are correct though, he is in the right place to develop and im sure he will. 

[bdgsct]

3 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Not disagreeing as I also think Hickey would be solid as a RCB but do you not think Porteus in particular has played really well at RCB for us?

Porteus has been excellent and it would be very harsh to drop him. But if you are looking for areas to improve our 11 the two obvious areas are centre back and striker. Tierney and Hickey in a back 3 allows you to play football all over the park and have more pace/threat on the right. Same formation but very much more attacking, wouldn't expect to start any group games like that but it's an option worth having if behind.

[Diamond Scot]

8 minutes ago, bdgsct said:

Porteus has been excellent and it would be very harsh to drop him. But if you are looking for areas to improve our 11 the two obvious areas are centre back and striker. Tierney and Hickey in a back 3 allows you to play football all over the park and have more pace/threat on the right. Same formation but very much more attacking, wouldn't expect to start any group games like that but it's an option worth having if behind.

Agreed. Hickey is so good he could play in a number of positions. Will be interesting to see where he ends up playing for us in a few years time.

[Scot1]

7 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont think anybody on here has been giving Patterson it tight. Several have said he isnt good defensively and his main strong points are going forward. I think thats a fair assessment.

He has potential and in certain games for Scotland he may be preferred over Hickey due to his attacking. He is a great backup to Hickey and we have come a long way from SOD and Palmer however lets also be honest about his career to date. He couldnt displace Taviner at Rangers (although he was younger), got a good move to Everton but under 2 different managers hasnt come close to establishing himself. He is currently 3rd choice RB at Everton behind 2 players long past their prime. Given his manager id guess that this is mainly due to the afforementioned defensive vulnerbilities.

You are correct though, he is in the right place to develop and im sure he will. 

He couldn’t displace Tavenier because Gerard picked an experienced player, his captain over a talented youngster during campaigns when Celtic were going for 9 & 10 in a row. 
He did establish himself as 1st choice right back under Lampard and only came out of the starting 11 when he was injured on Scotland duty. Same thing happened twice, he got into the team was playing well then got injured. 
As far as defensive vulnerabilities, he needs experience and to learn from playing games. He is not a bad defender but obviously he can improve. As I mentioned in my post above he’s had good games against some of the best wingers in the league, you don’t do that if you are poor defensively. He just played well again today against a good player, a player that was giving Ashley Young problems with his pace, before he came off. And as I posted above, the system 3/5 at the back gives back up in from the right-sided centre half (Porteous) if he does make a mistake. And in my team there’s also be a defensive midfielder to help out at times, Hickey. I believe it’s worth the trade off, playing Patterson, because of the security of the defender sitting behind him. 

[aaid]

33 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

He couldn’t displace Tavenier because Gerard picked an experienced player, his captain over a talented youngster during campaigns when Celtic were going for 9 & 10 in a row. 
 

I don’t think that being unable to shift Tavernier reflects on Patterson at all.  At the point Patterson left he was all about potential, Tavernier was simply the better player at that point and arguably still is.

Tavernier didn’t look like he was going downhill any time soon and he’s - injury free - likely got another 3-4 left at Rangers.  When they eventually have replace him, Rangers are going to have to find two players, a right back and someone to score 15-20 games a season - he’s a one off.

The deal made perfect sense to all parties. 

[Diamond Scot]

48 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

He couldn’t displace Tavenier because Gerard picked an experienced player, his captain over a talented youngster during campaigns when Celtic were going for 9 & 10 in a row. 
He did establish himself as 1st choice right back under Lampard and only came out of the starting 11 when he was injured on Scotland duty. Same thing happened twice, he got into the team was playing well then got injured. 
As far as defensive vulnerabilities, he needs experience and to learn from playing games. He is not a bad defender but obviously he can improve. As I mentioned in my post above he’s had good games against some of the best wingers in the league, you don’t do that if you are poor defensively. He just played well again today against a good player, a player that was giving Ashley Young problems with his pace, before he came off. And as I posted above, the system 3/5 at the back gives back up in from the right-sided centre half (Porteous) if he does make a mistake. And in my team there’s also be a defensive midfielder to help out at times, Hickey. I believe it’s worth the trade off, playing Patterson, because of the security of the defender sitting behind him. 

Lets not rewrite history, he properly broke into the Rangers team when Taviner got injured towards the end of the 20/21 season. Thats the season Rangers won the league and stopped 10 in a row. As soon as Tavinier was fit Patterson dropped back to bench, only really making cameo appearences at the start of the next season when Rangers were reigning champions. As Aaid says I also dont think this is a massive slight against him but it is the facts. 

He then moved to Everton in Jan 22 when Benetiz quickly got sacked. He didnt get a look in until April when he started due to Coleman being N/A and Patterson himself then got injured. Since then he has been in and out of the Everton team, never holding down the position when another recognised RB was available. In fact Dyche played a CB out right instead of him on a good few occasions.

Ive not said he is a bad defender. Ive said he isnt good defensively. All the stats show this and you would be hard pushed to find anybody who watches him that thinks that defending is one of his strengths.

He will / should improve and I really hope he does however if we are talking about our best players for each position, Patterson doesnt win that at RB and isnt currently good enough to change things about for imo. (Unlike Tierney who was too good to leave out so things got shifted). If Patterson was at Tierney levels then by all means try moving Hickey elsewhere.

[bdgsct]

He's a bit of a victim of his own success. He's 22 but only has 46 club appearances which is incredibly low for someone who also has 19 caps. Until he gets a run of 20 club starts we're not going to know his true level. I expect he will go on to become a regular starter for us as there is plenty improvement to come.