Striker curse

[Tartan blood]

I've been thinking this for pretty much the entirety of the past 2 decades. Why are we so unlucky with strikers? I don't mean we necessarily lack strikers, but it always seems when one comes along, there is always some sort of baggage or flaw that prevents them from fulfilling their potential. There are countless examples. 

To name a few:

Riordan - "best striker of a ball I've ever seen" said by Strachan. But was by all accounts a wee ned, unwilling to work on any other part of his game.

O'Connor - went to Russia, did okay, then god knows what happened to him. I'm sure I heard he got caught with drugs or something.

Goodwillie - Looked very promising at around 22 but his career was effectively ruined by criminal accusations.

S.Fletcher - Underachieved, despite good domestic form.

McBurnie - See Fletcher. But add in his "caught on camera" remarks and recent bustups with fans.

Griffiths - Probably the best we've had the last decade but has been desperately unlucky with mental health problems. (I still hold onto hope for him)

There are many many more examples. Now, I don't expect us to be producing a Lewandowski. But why can't we at least get a David Healy? We are long overdue a bit of luck in that department.

[kumnio]

I don’t even think it’s a recent thing, our top scorers only have 30, which looking at the talent is just ridiculously bad. 

[exile]

I guess we've had periods when we had good strikfers but the midfield were snuffed out and couldn't supply them; or we have had a good midfield that created good chances but no good stikers to take the chances; and/or we've had a leaky defence that let in too many goals at the other end. Maybe we've just never been strong enough in all three departments at the same time.

If we're talking tournament football, it's very very fine margins, as we have gone out on goal difference a few times, or in cases like 1986, when a single goal more in any of the games would have seen us through.

[aaid]

49 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I've been thinking this for pretty much the entirety of the past 2 decades. Why are we so unlucky with strikers? I don't mean we necessarily lack strikers, but it always seems when one comes along, there is always some sort of baggage or flaw that prevents them from fulfilling their potential. There are countless examples. 

To name a few:

Riordan - "best striker of a ball I've ever seen" said by Strachan. But was by all accounts a wee ned, unwilling to work on any other part of his game.

O'Connor - went to Russia, did okay, then god knows what happened to him. I'm sure I heard he got caught with drugs or something.

Goodwillie - Looked very promising at around 22 but his career was effectively ruined by criminal accusations.

S.Fletcher - Underachieved, despite good domestic form.

McBurnie - See Fletcher. But add in his "caught on camera" remarks and recent bustups with fans.

Griffiths - Probably the best we've had the last decade but has been desperately unlucky with mental health problems. (I still hold onto hope for him)

There are many many more examples. Now, I don't expect us to be producing a Lewandowski. But why can't we at least get a David Healy? We are long overdue a bit of luck in that department.

There is a common thread with all of those players.  Not as good as they think they are - or as their hangers on keep telling them.  Too fond of a drink and not dedicated or generally professional enough.

Personally I think we indulge these sort of characters too much. 

It was also something more than just allegations, while COPFS declined to prosecute, he was judged to be a rapist in a civil prosecution.

[gkm_vancouver]

Griffiths has 5 kids with 3different women so little wonder his head is not all there.. 

Jordan was decent for us though,  scored in 3 world cups and a good target man. Probably best we've had. 

[Toepoke]

54 minutes ago, gkm_vancouver said:

Jordan was decent for us though,  scored in 3 world cups and a good target man. Probably best we've had. 

Big Joe was and is a TA hero. As a striker not in the same class as Dalglish or Law though.

This century I'd say McFadden is best we've had. One of those rare players prepared to attempt the extraordinary, and often able to make it happen. Career at the top curtailed by injuries sadly.

Kenny Miller would be next for me, the work rate he put in up front was phenomenal. Just lacked that composure in the box, otherwise I've no doubt he would have broken the 30 goal barrier.

 

[Tartan blood]

37 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Big Joe was and is a TA hero. As a striker not in the same class as Dalglish or Law though.

This century I'd say McFadden is best we've had. One of those rare players prepared to attempt the extraordinary, and often able to make it happen. Career at the top curtailed by injuries sadly.

Kenny Miller would be next for me, the work rate he put in up front was phenomenal. Just lacked that composure in the box, otherwise I've no doubt he would have broken the 30 goal barrier.

 

McFadden wasn't quite a striker, though he was quite prolific for the position he played. Similar to McGinn in that regard, in that he scored more than was expected of him.

Miller, I feel like he always played like he had something to prove. He is the one striker we've had that really put his heart and soul into every game and probably matched his abilities. I don't think he could have done more for us.

Whereas the others I mentioned could easily have done better with even a tiny amount of effort and/or luck.

I'm certainly not writing anyone off yet, but neither Dykes nor Adams have shown they are the talisman we have been screaming out for.

[Tartan blood]

4 hours ago, exile said:

I guess we've had periods when we had good strikfers but the midfield were snuffed out and couldn't supply them; or we have had a good midfield that created good chances but no good stikers to take the chances; and/or we've had a leaky defence that let in too many goals at the other end. Maybe we've just never been strong enough in all three departments at the same time.

If we're talking tournament football, it's very very fine margins, as we have gone out on goal difference a few times, or in cases like 1986, when a single goal more in any of the games would have seen us through.

I wasn't really referring to tournament football, because it's unfair to judge players on just a few games in a high stakes environment. Which is why I haven't written off Dykes or Adams yet. But they both need to prove themselves to be goalscorers if they want to avoid being just another on the long list of forwards on our conveyor belt.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

12 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

I've been thinking this for pretty much the entirety of the past 2 decades. Why are we so unlucky with strikers? I don't mean we necessarily lack strikers, but it always seems when one comes along, there is always some sort of baggage or flaw that prevents them from fulfilling their potential. There are countless examples. 

To name a few:

Riordan - "best striker of a ball I've ever seen" said by Strachan. But was by all accounts a wee ned, unwilling to work on any other part of his game.

O'Connor - went to Russia, did okay, then god knows what happened to him. I'm sure I heard he got caught with drugs or something.

Goodwillie - Looked very promising at around 22 but his career was effectively ruined by criminal accusations.

S.Fletcher - Underachieved, despite good domestic form.

McBurnie - See Fletcher. But add in his "caught on camera" remarks and recent bustups with fans.

Griffiths - Probably the best we've had the last decade but has been desperately unlucky with mental health problems. (I still hold onto hope for him)

There are many many more examples. Now, I don't expect us to be producing a Lewandowski. But why can't we at least get a David Healy? We are long overdue a bit of luck in that department.

David Healy was a bizarre case for NI. Played in the second tier of England for the majority of his career and still managed 36 international goals. No reason we can't have that. Even looking through other international sides Kolbeinn Sigþórsson of Iceland has 26 goals, Teemu Pukki has 30, and going further back Robbie Keane had 68. None of whom come close to being regarded as world class.

We seem cursed in the sense our most naturally talented strikers turn out to either be bams that go off the rails (Riordan, Griffiths, Cummings) or guys whose careers end up disappointing.

Going a few years back many of us saw Jordan Rhodes as the second coming when he was scoring at a phenomenal rate in his early years. He's only managed 46 goals since the start of the 2015-16 season and now at Huddersfield.

No reason why Che Adams couldn't end up with 20 goals for us, but no signs of anyone else you'd be confident coming close to that in terms of strikers.

[noctonjock]

Ross McCormack was another.  Very good on his day but so inconsistent.  When he was at leeds he was very good and I thought he could be a great player for Scotland too. Wasnt to be just faded away 

[aaid]

10 hours ago, gkm_vancouver said:

Griffiths has 5 kids with 3different women so little wonder his head is not all there.. 

Jordan was decent for us though,  scored in 3 world cups and a good target man. Probably best we've had. 

Go and look up Jordan’s record, it’s absolutely woeful.  If he’s the best then god help us.

[Caledonian Craig]

For me it is a case of us bumming those players up too much. They really weren't as good as supporters like to portray as exhibited by their international records and I suppose part of that could be attributed to a lack of dedication and application plus not valuing their professional careers over far more dubious traits.

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

For me it is a case of us bumming those players up too much. They really weren't as good as supporters like to portray as exhibited by their international records and I suppose part of that could be attributed to a lack of dedication and application plus not valuing their professional careers over far more dubious traits.

I think the two are linked.  If people are being told they’re the DBs from an early age when they really aren’t then it’s all to easy to slip back, think you’ve made it and not need to work hard.

Compared to someone like Kenny Miller who had to work hard, and continue to do that throughout his career to achieve what he did.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

I think the two are linked.  If people are being told they’re the DBs from an early age when they really aren’t then it’s all to easy to slip back, think you’ve made it and not need to work hard.

Compared to someone like Kenny Miller who had to work hard, and continue to do that throughout his career to achieve what he did.

For sure.

Look at a big number of those in list posted earlier in Griffiths, O'Connor and Riordan. All players who had close ties with the supporters who would feed their head full of club adoration of what they did and I have no doubt that had them thinking they had made it - perhaps to them it was all they wanted. And the need to work harder in technique, professional dedication and sheer graft just was never there. And remember all of those players basically achieved Jack outside of the SPL. They were never head-hunted by any notable big clubs and that says those clubs saw nothing worth getting excited about and nothing to pique their interest. But don't tell the player's fans and mates that.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Hercules Rockefeller said:

 

Going a few years back many of us saw Jordan Rhodes as the second coming when he was scoring at a phenomenal rate in his early years. He's only managed 46 goals since the start of the 2015-16 season and now at Huddersfield.

Rhodes would probably be our record goalscorer If he had been played constantly, he would have scored for fun against the minnows. 

I wonder how many of the small country strikers records are boosted that way. 

Of course McBurnie never got a pop against the minnows. 

 

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Rhodes would probably be our record goalscorer If he had been played constantly, he would have scored for fun against the minnows. 

I wonder how many of the small country strikers records are boosted that way. 

Of course McBurnie never got a pop against the minnows. 

 

Fletcher would’ve been our record striker if we only ever played Gibraltar.

Take a look at Mitrovic’s record - and I wouldn’t class him as amongst the best, decent fair enough - aside from four goals against Luxembourg, the rest of his goals don’t come from teams you’d classify as minnows. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_goals_scored_by_Aleksandar_Mitrović

[Hercules Rockefeller]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Fletcher would’ve been our record striker if we only ever played Gibraltar.

Take a look at Mitrovic’s record - and I wouldn’t class him as amongst the best, decent fair enough - aside from four goals against Luxembourg, the rest of his goals don’t come from teams you’d classify as minnows. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_goals_scored_by_Aleksandar_Mitrović

Had no idea Mitrovic had 41 international goals. That's a bloody impressive return for a 26-year-old.

[Caledonian Craig]

53 minutes ago, Hercules Rockefeller said:

Had no idea Mitrovic had 41 international goals. That's a bloody impressive return for a 26-year-old.

Already surpassed our greatest goalscorer of all-time by some way. That just demonstrates how pathetic a prowess Scottish strikers have on a global scale in international football.

[Third Lanark]

And we currently have no one as good as Zahravi of Israel; so when and if we beat them convincingly then I really will call it progress. 

[Jim Beem]

18 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

I've been thinking this for pretty much the entirety of the past 2 decades. Why are we so unlucky with strikers? I don't mean we necessarily lack strikers, but it always seems when one comes along, there is always some sort of baggage or flaw that prevents them from fulfilling their potential. There are countless examples. 

To name a few:

Riordan - "best striker of a ball I've ever seen" said by Strachan. But was by all accounts a wee ned, unwilling to work on any other part of his game.

O'Connor - went to Russia, did okay, then god knows what happened to him. I'm sure I heard he got caught with drugs or something.

Goodwillie - Looked very promising at around 22 but his career was effectively ruined by criminal accusations.

S.Fletcher - Underachieved, despite good domestic form.

McBurnie - See Fletcher. But add in his "caught on camera" remarks and recent bustups with fans.

Griffiths - Probably the best we've had the last decade but has been desperately unlucky with mental health problems. (I still hold onto hope for him)

There are many many more examples. Now, I don't expect us to be producing a Lewandowski. But why can't we at least get a David Healy? We are long overdue a bit of luck in that department.

I'm afraid to say, every player mentioned above has, or at least did have, a massive NED quality about them. We are the worst country in the world for this sort of character. Utterly depressing in this day and age

[Kiltedsteamer147]

11 minutes ago, Jim Beem said:

I'm afraid to say, every player mentioned above has, or at least did have, a massive NED quality about them. We are the worst country in the world for this sort of character. Utterly depressing in this day and age

What on Earth are you basing this on?

[Jim Beem]

2 minutes ago, Kiltedsteamer147 said:

What on Earth are you basing this on?

😂 Historical facts 

[Tartan blood]

8 hours ago, Hercules Rockefeller said:

David Healy was a bizarre case for NI. Played in the second tier of England for the majority of his career and still managed 36 international goals. No reason we can't have that. Even looking through other international sides Kolbeinn Sigþórsson of Iceland has 26 goals, Teemu Pukki has 30, and going further back Robbie Keane had 68. None of whom come close to being regarded as world class.

We seem cursed in the sense our most naturally talented strikers turn out to either be bams that go off the rails (Riordan, Griffiths, Cummings) or guys whose careers end up disappointing.

Going a few years back many of us saw Jordan Rhodes as the second coming when he was scoring at a phenomenal rate in his early years. He's only managed 46 goals since the start of the 2015-16 season and now at Huddersfield.

No reason why Che Adams couldn't end up with 20 goals for us, but no signs of anyone else you'd be confident coming close to that in terms of strikers.

Good post. You're right, any half decent poacher could end up being our record goalscorer without having to be even International class, nevermind World class.

I hope I'm wrong, but Dykes could turn out to be our next Kenny Miller. Bring a lot of value to the team, but never score more than 15-20 goals. That's no disrespect to Miller, who I loved, and dreaded the day he retired. He really did play to his absolute potential for Scotland.

The one big question is why it seems to be only strikers we lack? Every other area of the pitch we've created plenty of talent with good attitudes, but we can't even get one prolific goalscorer. As others have said, it could be that we've overinflated their egos at too early an age. But surely that would happen in other positions as well. It's baffling.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Tartan blood

[scotlad]

17 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

McFadden wasn't quite a striker, though he was quite prolific for the position he played. Similar to McGinn in that regard, in that he scored more than was expected of him.

Miller, I feel like he always played like he had something to prove. He is the one striker we've had that really put his heart and soul into every game and probably matched his abilities. I don't think he could have done more for us.

Whereas the others I mentioned could easily have done better with even a tiny amount of effort and/or luck.

I'm certainly not writing anyone off yet, but neither Dykes nor Adams have shown they are the talisman we have been screaming out for.

Our current side is crying out for a Kenny Miller or a James McFadden, a player who was capable of creating something out of nothing.

Unlike some other forwards we've had they were both able to score against top quality opponents, not just diddy teams.

10 hours ago, Hercules Rockefeller said:

David Healy was a bizarre case for NI. Played in the second tier of England for the majority of his career and still managed 36 international goals. No reason we can't have that. Even looking through other international sides Kolbeinn Sigþórsson of Iceland has 26 goals, Teemu Pukki has 30, and going further back Robbie Keane had 68. None of whom come close to being regarded as world class.

We seem cursed in the sense our most naturally talented strikers turn out to either be bams that go off the rails (Riordan, Griffiths, Cummings) or guys whose careers end up disappointing.

Going a few years back many of us saw Jordan Rhodes as the second coming when he was scoring at a phenomenal rate in his early years. He's only managed 46 goals since the start of the 2015-16 season and now at Huddersfield.

No reason why Che Adams couldn't end up with 20 goals for us, but no signs of anyone else you'd be confident coming close to that in terms of strikers.

That's a wee bit unfair on Robbie Keane, I feel. He wasn't world class but he wasn't far off it.  Look at the kind of clubs he played for when he was in his prime - Inter Milan, Liverpool, Tottenham, Leeds United - you don't get signed by those those kind of clubs unless you're very good - and not forgetting his brief spell on loan for a pish Celtic side where he scored for fun.

I agree with the bit about the bam strikers though, although Jason Cummings is nothing special (but definitely a bam!) and Griffiths, to me, just seems like a bit of a dafty who has some demons rather than an actual ned.

Griffiths probably fulfilled his potential but Riordan most certainly didn't. This was someone who, early in his career, scored around 20 goals a season, every season, and mostly from a wide midfield position. His first touch was excellent and he could score with either foot, with his head, from free kicks, from long range, from tap-ins - you name it.  Unfortunately he was also a fucking idiot who's career fizzled out the second he signed for Celtic.

Garry O'Connor, Riordan's mate, wasn't quite as naturally gifted but he was as naturally daft.  If the pair of them had had an ounce of sense between them they could have been Scotland's front two for the better part of a decade.  What a sad waste.

[scotlad]

5 hours ago, Kiltedsteamer147 said:

What on Earth are you basing this on?

Don't tell me you haven't read the UN report on ned footballers?? 

I used to work alongside a Romanian guy and we got chatting about football one day (I was on the way out in my Scotland shirt en route to Hampden). I remember him saying he used to love watching the Romanian national team but got fed up with them because the players, in his words, have "no brains" and only care about money and fast cars and girls (not that that makes them bad people!), so Scotland are hardly unique in producing ned footballers.