Striker curse

[Tartan blood]

35 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh its a case of cash in now for Tavernier, I reckon they could get at least 10m for him. Problem is he brings alot to the rangers team so perhaps they would be better keeping him if they feel Patterson won't make as big a contribution to the team. 

I reckon with the right rotation Patterson can still get plenty of game time even if Tavernier stays. Rangers probably play 70 games a season so they need a strong squad. 

He obviously contributed a lot last year, but didn't they also do equally well when he was out injured for a while? Plus, Tavernier's goals are deceptive. A large portion of them were penalties. Much like the year Barry Ferguson scored 19(?) goals. I'm sure like 11 of them were penalties. 

You need to sell at the right time. Rangers, I assume, need the money, but don't need the right back. 

Patterson might get close to 20 starts, but 40+ starts would propel him into the Scotland first 11 quicker.

[er yir macaroon]

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

15 million? 😂😂 He’s played 16 games for Rangers. 

I didn’t say right now. 

[ParisInAKilt]

8 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

I didn’t say right now. 

I know, but he’s not played enough football to even say he could get to that value, at least from what I’ve seen of him so far. 

[DAVIDB46]

Think part of the problem is that we allow our strikers to perform badly and it’s not a big issue .

Most of goals come from midfield ,  one up front , the style we play etc.

So defending how poor our strikers are allows them to continue to be shite with no issue of their quality ever brought into the equation .

[Tartan blood]

9 minutes ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Think part of the problem is that we allow our strikers to perform badly and it’s not a big issue .

Most of goals come from midfield ,  one up front , the style we play etc.

So defending how poor our strikers are allows them to continue to be shite with no issue of their quality ever brought into the equation .

We've known for a long time that we lack a natural goalscorer. In that case, we should use 1 striker in a sort of Giroud style, and focus more on our attacking midfielders, which we have an abundance of.

The solution to lacking goalscoring strikers should not be to play 2 of them. Fraser, Forrest and Christie all have goals in them, as does Turnbull. They were criminally underused.

[ParisInAKilt]

Forrest has 5 goals in 38 games 

Fraser and Christie have 4 in 20 games 

McGinn has 10 in 36. 

Adams could probably get into double figures but Dykes I’m not to sure about.

Until we produce better players, goals will always be a struggle, especially against the better teams. 

[killiefaetheferry]

6 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Forrest has 5 goals in 38 games 

Fraser and Christie have 4 in 20 games 

McGinn has 10 in 36. 

Adams could probably get into double figures but Dykes I’m not to sure about.

Until we produce better players, goals will always be a struggle, especially against the better teams. 

Fraser off Adams is our best bet for me. Let Fraser double as a winger when we're in possession in the opposition's half. Otherwise closing down defenders in possession and looking for second balls from Adams. Or if things go according to plan this season, we can just play Innes Cameron instead of Adams 👍

Edited July 6, 2021 by killiefaetheferry

[ParisInAKilt]

Just now, killiefaetheferry said:

Fraser off Adams is our best bet for me. Let Fraser double as a winger when we're in possession in the opposition's half. Otherwise closing down defenders in possession and looking for second balls from Adams. 

Aye same, probably with McGinn as far forward as possible as well. Hopefully Christie can get some form back as well. 
Forrest is still only 29 but can’t see him becoming an important player at this point.

[ProudScot]

49 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

We've known for a long time that we lack a natural goalscorer. In that case, we should use 1 striker in a sort of Giroud style, and focus more on our attacking midfielders, which we have an abundance of.

The solution to lacking goalscoring strikers should not be to play 2 of them. Fraser, Forrest and Christie all have goals in them, as does Turnbull. They were criminally underused.

You need to have a sort of Giroud level player to play a sort of Giroud style 

[aaid]

I suspect that we can forget about Griffiths from now on. 

[er yir macaroon]

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I know, but he’s not played enough football to even say he could get to that value, at least from what I’ve seen of him so far. 

I’ve seen ample! 

[gkm_vancouver]

On 7/6/2021 at 7:35 PM, aaid said:

I suspect that we can forget about Griffiths from now on. 

Looks like he's making sure of that now..... 😳

[borojock]

This is just a feeling no hard proof or anything to back it up but i do wonder how professional our players are attitude is everything - talent gets you in the door hard work, right attitude keep you in the room and get you moving upwards. You look at Griff, Deeks, O'Conner, Cummings even Feruez so many players come in with, from the outside looking in, a terrible attitude, overinflated ego like they have achieved something playing a few games maybe even scoring a few goals in the SPL when in reality it means nothing. When you look at the professionalism of people like Kane, Chiellini etc so many of our talented youngsters who come through a number of SPL clubs and are based n Scotland are light years of mentally being where you need to be to reach the peak of their potential over a long term consistent basis  

I watch Open Goal on Youtube and Si Ferry and Paul Slane talking to these players who are Scottish or spent the majority of their time in the SPL about banter in the dressing room and wild nights out etc - you do the same interview with a Roy Keane, Steven Gerard any top top player those guys are talking about the mental fortitude, going into training everyday like its a war and they need to be the best every day at training 

Im rambling and all that but really do think so many of our clubs and the young players coming through arent mentally strong enough or professional to get to that right level 

[Boynze]

agree with most of this.

 

watch (the loathesome) rio on his address to the oxford union about how he approached going into the man utd winning dressing room. impressive stuff and should be aspirational.

 

some of the stuff on open goal, whilst mildly amusing, is verging on depressing, all about bevying, carrying on in training and generally being very unprofessional.

[Diamond Scot]

Ive said before but Scotland is almost unique in that it is a small nation but with 2 massive clubs who attract considerable media attention and pay very good wages.

Take Denmark as a direct comparison. A good prospect who breaks into the league is looking to establish himself then move to one of Europes top leagues as there isnt alot of money to be made in Denmark or major interest. Even players breaking through at Brondby or Copenhagen dont look to stay long.

But in Scotland its not unusual for prospects to move to the Old Firm or for Old Firm players to stay well into their mid 20s.

At the Old Firm you can win medals, play in Europe, be setup for life in terms of supporters clubs / media jobs etc and make about 30k per week. Its easy to see why some then dont have the immediete desire to move on.

 

[stitch]

I think 1 of the biggest highlights for this was after the Serbia game. The players went on the lash and even some players who said they didn't drink alcohol had a few beers. Clarke said he didn't join in but sat watching. We then had 2 games to get to the top league and lost both. A top player and professional would never have done that and a good coach would never of allowed it to happen. 

[ceudmilefailte]

25 minutes ago, borojock said:

This is just a feeling no hard proof or anything to back it up but i do wonder how professional our players are attitude is everything - talent gets you in the door hard work, right attitude keep you in the room and get you moving upwards. You look at Griff, Deeks, O'Conner, Cummings even Feruez so many players come in with, from the outside looking in, a terrible attitude, overinflated ego like they have achieved something playing a few games maybe even scoring a few goals in the SPL

Not the SPL but McBurnie should be pretty high on that list

[Tartan blood]

5 minutes ago, stitch said:

I think 1 of the biggest highlights for this was after the Serbia game. The players went on the lash and even some players who said they didn't drink alcohol had a few beers. Clarke said he didn't join in but sat watching. We then had 2 games to get to the top league and lost both. A top player and professional would never have done that and a good coach would never of allowed it to happen. 

Look at Tierney. T-total and is currently regarded as one of the best left backs in Europe. I'm sure I read somewhere that Andy Robertson only drinks on 2 weeks out of the year between seasons. I don't think that is coincidence. Not just that they don't drink, but it is a reflection of their attitude and professionalism.

I don't know which other players have a similar approach, but I'd bet that most of our best players over the past few decades had a similar vibe. John Collins has famously never touched alcohol. And he is arguably in our top 5 most successful players of the modern era.

[scotlad]

The other side of the coin from the likes of O'Connor and Riordan are players like Armstrong and Robertson - dedicated professionals who look after themselves properly on and off the pitch.  Whether it's a question of character or upbringing or personality or a combination of the three that separates one type from the other I'm not sure.

Thinking about it, It must take a huge amount of dedication and focus to devote yourself to your career and not be side tracked by what your peers, who don't have your talents, are up to.  It's often said that there are talented footballers working on building sites, driving taxis and working in call centres but they either didn't have the dedication or just fell out of love with the game.

 

[Tartan blood]

35 minutes ago, scotlad said:

The other side of the coin from the likes of O'Connor and Riordan are players like Armstrong and Robertson - dedicated professionals who look after themselves properly on and off the pitch.  Whether it's a question of character or upbringing or personality or a combination of the three that separates one type from the other I'm not sure.

Thinking about it, It must take a huge amount of dedication and focus to devote yourself to your career and not be side tracked by what your peers, who don't have your talents, are up to.  It's often said that there are talented footballers working on building sites, driving taxis and working in call centres but they either didn't have the dedication or just fell out of love with the game.

 

Peer pressure is a valid argument for teenagers, and maybe early 20s. Once you are playing in the senior team for the likes of Celtic, Hibs, Moscow, etc your peers are your teammates. So there is really no excuse for them once they are in that environment. It then comes down to the individual's failings. Unless Celtic, and Scottish football teams in general, are not providing the right support. I.e the likes of Armstrong and Collins did it off their own back, despite the lack of guidance from the club.

[mccaughey85]

All the hibs neds should be given a minder to look after them and make sure they behave. 

[Haggis_trap]

From what I have read....
Scotland has lots of talented 14,15 year old kids.
The gap seemingly starts to widen between ages of 15-20 ?

Kids / teenagers need to be playing at appropriate level where they are challenged.
Lots of our talented 17 years old don't make it and quickly fall out of the game and stop playing.
Similarly the players that do make it perhaps end up at a professional league team where they (age 17-18) its sink or swim.  In reality these kids should be playing every week (either for reserves, U19s, U21s, colt sides or farmed out to a lower league team). 
 

[Tartan blood]

13 minutes ago, Haggis_trap said:

From what I have read....
Scotland has lots of talented 14,15 year old kids.
The gap seemingly starts to widen between ages of 15-20 ?

Kids / teenagers need to be playing at appropriate level where they are challenged.
Lots of our talented 17 years old don't make it and quickly fall out of the game and stop playing.
Similarly the players that do make it perhaps end up at a professional league team where they (age 17-18) its sink or swim.  In reality these kids should be playing every week (either for reserves, U19s, U21s, colt sides or farmed out to a lower league team). 
 

I know that the Celtic and Rangers colt teams are a bit of a touchy subject for some, but it actually should be a good thing for the national team. As you say, we have so much wasted talent. Allowing our best 16-17 year olds play professional football will do them the world of good. They still get the top level training and facilities assocaited with the Old Firm, but get the benefit of a loan move, without having to go to a sub-standard team.

Whether we like it or not, a huge portion of the national team is made up of ex-Celtic and Rangers youths e.g Marshall, Robertson, Tierney, Gilmour, Patterson, McGregor, Forrest, Gallagher, Fleck (from the most recent squad only).

 

[Malcolm]

1 minute ago, Tartan blood said:

I know that the Celtic and Rangers colt teams are a bit of a touchy subject for some, but it actually should be a good thing for the national team. As you say, we have so much wasted talent. Allowing our best 16-17 year olds play professional football will do them the world of good. They still get the top level training and facilities assocaited with the Old Firm, but get the benefit of a loan move, without having to go to a sub-standard team.

Whether we like it or not, a huge portion of the national team is made up of ex-Celtic and Rangers youths e.g Marshall, Robertson, Tierney, Gilmour, Patterson, McGregor, Forrest, Gallagher, Fleck (from the most recent squad o

[Malcolm]

Just now, Malcolm said:

2 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I know that the Celtic and Rangers colt teams are a bit of a touchy subject for some, but it actually should be a good thing for the national team. As you say, we have so much wasted talent. Allowing our best 16-17 year olds play professional football will do them the world of good. They still get the top level training and facilities assocaited with the Old Firm, but get the benefit of a loan move, without having to go to a sub-standard team.

Whether we like it or not, a huge portion of the national team is made up of ex-Celtic and Rangers youths e.g Marshall, Robertson, Tierney, Gilmour, Patterson, McGregor, Forrest, Gallagher, Fleck (from the most recent squad o

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I think the colt teams would be great. Better for the quality of our game as a whole, but stopped by self interest amongst the wee teams.