The news thread

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

I agree with you 100%.  I think it's unlikely the Tories will go for an early election so we'll most probably be stuck with them for another two years at least - plenty of time for them to fuck things up even more (either by accident or design) leaving Labour to inherit a mess which they will struggle to improve let alone resolve over the course of a parliament.

Scotland could, of course, as you say, free itself from the perennial Ren & Stimpy show of British politics for good, but the trouble is a lot of people in Scotland have as much vision and foresight as Mr Magoo in a pair of sunglasses trying to find his around in a power cut.  Many people will assume that replacing Truss and her dodgy cabal of spivs and speculators with Starmer and his more managerial team will get us back in business but that is underestimating just how much damage has been caused over the past five or six years.

Twelve years ago I thought the Tories winning the 2010 election might push more people towards independence but it didn't. That government was a model of competence compared to what he have now and yet, the polls are still neck and neck.  This makes me think that where we are is maybe an "us" problem - by which I mean the independence movement - as much as anything.

Only read this after making a similar point on the indy ref thread. Totally agree. 

[ErsatzThistle]

Peter Tobin is now officially burning in hell.

[Toepoke]

7 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Peter Tobin is now officially burning in hell.

At least 50 years too late unfortunately. 

 

[Ally Bongo]

Sadly there is no Hell

However his remaining years inside should have been made like Hell 

[exile]

Nicola Sturgeon says she detests the Tories and all they stand for. Not a good look for a First Minister trying to woo soft Tory no voters to the independence cause? Tories calling it out as divisive - I think they have a point. At least, it's politically inadvisible - feeds the 'nasty natz' narrative. I think she may have to clarify... 

[Ally Bongo]

37 minutes ago, exile said:

Nicola Sturgeon says she detests the Tories and all they stand for. Not a good look for a First Minister trying to woo soft Tory no voters to the independence cause? Tories calling it out as divisive - I think they have a point. At least, it's politically inadvisible - feeds the 'nasty natz' narrative. I think she may have to clarify... 

Aaron Carr

 

@ScaryChildren

 

 

Tory behaviour utterly vile and toxic 12 years of mismanagement, corruption and criminality Constant gas lighting, lying and cheating And now outraged when Nicola Sturgeon confesses to detesting them and all that they stand for Cry me a river

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, exile said:

Nicola Sturgeon says she detests the Tories and all they stand for. Not a good look for a First Minister trying to woo soft Tory no voters to the independence cause? Tories calling it out as divisive - I think they have a point. At least, it's politically inadvisible - feeds the 'nasty natz' narrative. I think she may have to clarify... 

She is being far to polite IMO. The Tories are self serving scum and far too many folk are too polite to call them out for being scum. They are a bunch of horrible fukers. 

[aaid]

26 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

She is being far to polite IMO. The Tories are self serving scum and far too many folk are too polite to call them out for being scum. They are a bunch of horrible fukers. 

Exactly, fair play to her.   As for trying to woo over soft-No Tories, there aren’t any. 

[Hertsscot]

2 hours ago, exile said:

Nicola Sturgeon says she detests the Tories and all they stand for. Not a good look for a First Minister trying to woo soft Tory no voters to the independence cause? Tories calling it out as divisive - I think they have a point. At least, it's politically inadvisible - feeds the 'nasty natz' narrative. I think she may have to clarify... 

Agreed. Even her opponents recognise that Sturgeon is a consummate political operator who rarely gets her words wrong, no matter how much provocation or stupidity she has to put up with. However on this occasion I think her words were injudicious. If she'd said 'I detest what the current Tory Party stands for', it could not be misconstrued as detesting individual Tory voters and would also have highlighted how far removed this present Tory Party is from anything that might resemble the more moderate One Nation Conservatism of the past.

On the other hand maybe it was an attempt to wean over Labour voters in Scotland who are disillusioned with the uninspiring leadership of Starmer and Sarwar who don't seem to have any radical ideas about how to address the inequalities in society, who are pro WMD, still back Brexit and still are anti democratic in saying they would deny the voters of Scotland a new Indy referendum.

[kumnio]

3 hours ago, exile said:

Nicola Sturgeon says she detests the Tories and all they stand for. Not a good look for a First Minister trying to woo soft Tory no voters to the independence cause? Tories calling it out as divisive - I think they have a point. At least, it's politically inadvisible - feeds the 'nasty natz' narrative. I think she may have to clarify... 

Fuck them.

If she has to clarify it, she should double down, use stronger terminology. 

A 'soft Tory' is still a Tory, which after the last decade, says more about them, than Sturgeon ever could.

[Ally Bongo]

17 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Fuck them.

If she has to clarify it, she should double down, use stronger terminology. 

A 'soft Tory' is still a Tory, which after the last decade, says more about them, than Sturgeon ever could.

She did then when asked if she regretted her words she said "No"

It's about time we went on the offensive

[scotlad]

"Divisive rhetoric" 😭

Divisive rhetoric has never killed anyone; it's never crashed an economy, causing the pensions and investments of ordinary people to plummet in value; it's never squandered tens of billions of pounds of public money to line the pockets of its dodgy pals; it's never allowed a killer virus to flare up just to avoid upsetting a country it's desperate to do a trade deal with...

If anyone is more upset by that one comment from Nicola Sturgeon than what the Tories have actually been doing for the past 12 years then they're a fucking idiot. 

In any case, did Angela Rayner not describe the Tories as "scum" last year? That doesn't appear to have affected Labour's position in the polls, or, for that matter, significantly increased support for Scottish independence, considering Labour are an avowedly unionist party.

 

[kumnio]

Looks like the BBC are now obsessed with the detest issue, which really is worrying, Im sitting refreshing their website and twitter feed looking for more news on the ferries. We need an update now, this stagnation can't go on any longer.

[exile]

So I guess I'm in the minority, but I still think there is a difference between an opposition politicians saying something about their political rivals (whether Emily 'hate the SNP' Thornberry or Nye 'Tories are lower than vermin' Bevan), and the first minister who is supposed to be representing all Scots. At the very least it seems inconsistent with previous softly-softly approaches including apologising for things like the Perth protests against 'Tory scum' kind of thing.

If the gloves are off now then maybe she is now going for broke. For it to work, though, I think it really has to be seen to be not being nasty to a segment of the electorate - mild mannered bankers in Callander or wee wifies from Fyvie - but has to hit home that this is about opposing the hard right party the Tories have become - of dreaming to send people to Rwanda, of austerity deaths, rape clauses, and so on - and getting those issues as the debating point, and get those mild mannered bankers and wifies to rethink what 'Tory values' they are willing to accept and be identified with.     

Edited October 9, 2022 by exile

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

😭

If anyone is more upset by that one comment from Nicola Sturgeon than what the Tories have actually been doing for the past 12 years then they're a fucking idiot. 

Tory policies literally killing people, even before Covid, 40,000 plus each year. Unfortunately due to our media this won't get as much media coverage as Nicola's comments.

https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_885099_en.html

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

"Divisive rhetoric" 😭

In any case, did Angela Rayner not describe the Tories as "scum" last year? That doesn't appear to have affected Labour's position in the polls, or, for that matter, significantly increased support for Scottish independence, considering Labour are an avowedly unionist party.

I've yet to hear a straight answer to this but I'd like a journalist to get one as I can only draw one logical conclusion.

Premise 1: Rayner thinks Tories are 'scum'. Premise 2: Starmer refuses to work with SNP and Sarwar is happy that Labour Councillors are hand in hand with Tories.

Conclusion: The Labour leadership thinks SNP are worse than 'scum'.

[duncan II]

2 hours ago, scotlad said:

"Divisive rhetoric" 😭

Divisive rhetoric has never killed anyone; 

 

To be fair, it has.

[Hertsscot]

4 hours ago, scotlad said:

"Divisive rhetoric" 😭

 

I see the BBC has now altered its website and the quote now says 'I detest the Tories', that definite article makes a big difference and is just the norm of politics in an adversarial system like the UK. I dare say that won't stop the usual suspects misquoting her.

[Toepoke]

3 hours ago, kumnio said:

Looks like the BBC are now obsessed with the detest issue, which really is worrying, Im sitting refreshing their website and twitter feed looking for more news on the ferries. We need an update now, this stagnation can't go on any longer.

😄

[thplinth]

detest
verb [ T not continuous ]
UK  /dɪˈtest/ US  /dɪˈtest/
 
to hate someone or something very much:

So to say you detest tories is to say you hate them.

I hate trannies - a crime according to the FM

I hate tories - something she feels comfortable saying in public about a significant % of the Scottish population based on their political views.

Utter woke hypocrisy as usual, that completely alienates any potential right of centre or even centre YES voters. NS is a self destructive moron as 'leader' of the independence movement and should be up on her own hate crime charges. Do you think the cops would not be chapping your door if you said this about any of her wee favourites. Amazing she feels comfortable coming out with an extremist remark like that.

[exile]

Indeed the problem is that a 'Tories out' type of stance is pandering to the Westminster battleground. But the real prize is an independent Scotland that centre right voters feel comfortable voting for. She could be winning respect and support from people in other parts of the UK, where it's not needed, while making it harder on the doorstep in Scotland, where it matters.

[scotlad]

15 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Tory policies literally killing people, even before Covid, 40,000 plus each year. Unfortunately due to our media this won't get as much media coverage as Nicola's comments.

https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_885099_en.html

Good point. Didn't the UN even have something to say about those policies?

13 hours ago, duncan II said:

To be fair, it has.

That's a bit of a stretch.

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, thplinth said:

detest
verb [ T not continuous ]
UK  /dɪˈtest/ US  /dɪˈtest/
 
to hate someone or something very much:

So to say you detest tories is to say you hate them.

I hate trannies - a crime according to the FM

I hate tories - something she feels comfortable saying in public about a significant % of the Scottish population based on their political views.

Utter woke hypocrisy as usual, that completely alienates any potential right of centre or even centre YES voters. NS is a self destructive moron as 'leader' of the independence movement and should be up on her own hate crime charges. Do you think the cops would not be chapping your door if you said this about any of her wee favourites. Amazing she feels comfortable coming out with an extremist remark like that.

I'm not sure it does. I know a couple of people who support independence, who, in normal circumstances, I could see voting for a centre-right party (based on their views on issues outwith independence). They wouldn't class themselves as "Tories" though, due to that party's hardwire, fundamental opposition to Scottish independence.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, exile said:

Indeed the problem is that a 'Tories out' type of stance is pandering to the Westminster battleground. But the real prize is an independent Scotland that centre right voters feel comfortable voting for. She could be winning respect and support from people in other parts of the UK, where it's not needed, while making it harder on the doorstep in Scotland, where it matters.

If you take the view that Nicola Sturgeon never says anything by accident, then there’s a school of thought that what she’s actually doing is to put a stake in the ground and is reminding voters that the SNP is the real anti-Tory party in Scotland and that’s directed at SNP voters who might be tempered towards Labour and Labour voters who’re unhappy at Starmer triangulating towards the right.  Tory voters are the most ideological when it comes to Independence, even more so than the SNP.  There’s literally no point in trying to reach out to them to find some common ground, it’s a waste of time.  

[TDYER63]

Wow ! Nicola Sturgeon detests the Tories ? News to me as I am sure it must be to people the UK over. Must have been mixing her up with Mother Theresa, I do it all the time.  
Note to self :  Only vote for candidates who love everyone.