Scottish player transfers

[scotlad]

On 1/13/2024 at 8:06 PM, Diamond Scot said:

Why do Ireland produce so many more elite players than Scotland? Thats probably the nearest we have to a country the size and culture of ours. Ireland ship pretty much all their players to England at the earliest opportunity and they have produced about 5 times the number of elite players than we have in the last 30 years.

How are you defining elite players? RoI have had better sides than us for most of this century (not exactly difficult!) but off the top of my head in the past 30 years the only players they have produced that I would describe as 'elite' are Damien Duff, Shay Given, Robbie Keane, Roy Keane and possibly Evan Ferguson.

They have produced good players, i.e. guys who could hold down places in EPL teams, but not that many I would call elite, which, for me, is someone who plays regularly for a top European team challenging for league titles and European honours.

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

How are you defining elite players? RoI have had better sides than us for most of this century (not exactly difficult!) but off the top of my head in the past 30 years the only players they have produced that I would describe as 'elite' are Damien Duff, Shay Given, Robbie Keane, Roy Keane and possibly Evan Ferguson.

They have produced good players, i.e. guys who could hold down places in EPL teams, but not that many I would call elite, which, for me, is someone who plays regularly for a top European team challenging for league titles and European honours.

I wonder what the average age is in Ireland. I suspect they have a younger population. This is very anecdotal but the Irish teachers I knew, most of them were pretty sporty. Do they emphasise sport more culturally or in school?

Edited January 16 by Hertsscot

[JECK]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

How are you defining elite players? RoI have had better sides than us for most of this century (not exactly difficult!) but off the top of my head in the past 30 years the only players they have produced that I would describe as 'elite' are Damien Duff, Shay Given, Robbie Keane, Roy Keane and possibly Evan Ferguson.

They have produced good players, i.e. guys who could hold down places in EPL teams, but not that many I would call elite, which, for me, is someone who plays regularly for a top European team challenging for league titles and European honours.

It was a wild statement -5 times the amount we do. Absolute mince actually. Robbie and Roy Keane, absolutely in the past 30 years. I’m not having Damien Duff at all as elite - have a look at his stats. In no way shape or form at this moment in time is Evan Ferguson an elite player.

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

How are you defining elite players? RoI have had better sides than us for most of this century (not exactly difficult!) but off the top of my head in the past 30 years the only players they have produced that I would describe as 'elite' are Damien Duff, Shay Given, Robbie Keane, Roy Keane and possibly Evan Ferguson.

They have produced good players, i.e. guys who could hold down places in EPL teams, but not that many I would call elite, which, for me, is someone who plays regularly for a top European team challenging for league titles and European honours.

Id define elite the same as you. Players who have reguarly held down starting positions at the top clubs in the best leagues. Probably the big 6 in England.

We have basically had Fletcher and Robertson. McTominay possibly falls into this catergory aswell. All our other players who have moved to top sides have failed to establish themselves.

Even Fletcher and McTomminay were / are on the fringes on the main starting 11. Guys like Duff and and 2 Keanes were key players in successful sides.

We are certainly getting better at producing players of a higher standard. Having a core group of players in the best leagues makes a huge difference. The successful ROI sides if the early 2000s had the elite players as above and then were littered with solid EPL players.

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, JECK said:

It was a wild statement -5 times the amount we do. Absolute mince actually. Robbie and Roy Keane, absolutely in the past 30 years. I’m not having Damien Duff at all as elite - have a look at his stats. In no way shape or form at this moment in time is Evan Ferguson an elite player.

Damien Duff was signed for 17 million by Chelsea where he played 81 times and won 2 leagues. He played over 450 in one of the top leagues in Europe. We would have killed for a player of the calibre of Duff. 

Dennis Irwin is one of Man Utds all time full backs. Shay Given was a top class GK. John Oshea won 5 league titles and a european cup at Man Utd.  Even Richard Dunne ans Seamus Coleman had really good careers in the EPL.

We are only now starting to produce players who establish themselves at that level. 

[mccaughey85]

12 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Damien Duff was signed for 17 million by Chelsea where he played 81 times and won 2 leagues. He played over 450 in one of the top leagues in Europe. We would have killed for a player of the calibre of Duff. 

Dennis Irwin is one of Man Utds all time full backs. Shay Given was a top class GK. John Oshea won 5 league titles and a european cup at Man Utd.  Even Richard Dunne ans Seamus Coleman had really good careers in the EPL.

We are only now starting to produce players who establish themselves at that level. 

I still don't think they produce alot more elite players than us. They had a spell of maybe 12 years where they had 5 or 6 elite players playing in the same team. 

If you average it out we have probably had a similar amount of elite players as them over the last 30 years. It's just been spread out more evenly and we didn't have an elite striker or winger which Ireland have had. Our elite players have all been midfielders barring Robertson and maybe Tierney if he counts as elite.

[gonzohiggy]

16 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

John Soutar is a regular for Rangers also. 

Ryan Jack has played around 16 games this season for Rangers. Turnbull 18 for Celtic, Forrest 18 for Celtic. 

Souttar and Jack are in and out. Turnbull and Forrest are out far more than they are in and are no more than squad players. Not exactly a resounding endorsement of Scottish players in the premiership.

Celtic and Rangers have a huge catchment area and a huge pull for young players, it’s inexcusable for them to not produce players ready for their first team. Even the ones you highlight - 3/4 of them were signed from other Scottish clubs. 
 

I think rangers are more culpable as I actually see a couple of players who should be involved now but who aren’t. Young players improve rapidly when given opportunities- just look at mcausland (I know he’s N Irish)

 

Edited January 17 by gonzohiggy

[BryanBlessed]

16 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Id define elite the same as you. Players who have reguarly held down starting positions at the top clubs in the best leagues. Probably the big 6 in England.

We have basically had Fletcher and Robertson. McTominay possibly falls into this catergory aswell. All our other players who have moved to top sides have failed to establish themselves.

 

I think the captain of the team currently sitting in third place in the EPL might feel a little hard done by not to be called elite. I'd be very surprised if Gilmour and Hickey don't end up at top 4 EPL clubs.

The EPL is a much stronger league now in my opinion. Back in the nineties when Man Utd were dominating the EPL they certainly weren't dominating Europe. The Italian league is now much poorer and the French league has one team that might be classed as elite. That leaves Germany and Spain and I don't think those leagues are as strong as the EPL. Yes, Man Utd and Newcastle were poor in the UCL but those teams are not doing well in the EPL this season.

Case in point: Lewis Ferguson is highly rated in Serie A but the teams interested in him in the EPL are mid to bottom.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd regard the top half of the EPL as elite.

[csinclair]

21 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

John Soutar is a regular for Rangers also. 

Ryan Jack has played around 16 games this season for Rangers. Turnbull 18 for Celtic, Forrest 18 for Celtic. 

I'd say Souttar is a semi regular. When everyone is fit he's found himself behind Goldson and Davies, sometimes even Balogun.

[scotlad]

20 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I wonder what the average age is in Ireland. I suspect they have a younger population. This is very anecdotal but the Irish teachers I knew, most of them were pretty sporty. Do they emphasise sport more culturally or in school?

Undoubtedly they have a younger population, I think statistics support that too. Our birth rate by comparison is at historic lows.

This is just an observation too but I suspect they do emphasise sport more culturally over there, both as a part of a wider culture as well as an activity in itself. I also suspect it's far less socially acceptable to be a junk food scoffing couch potato in Ireland than it is in this country too.

18 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Damien Duff was signed for 17 million by Chelsea where he played 81 times and won 2 leagues. He played over 450 in one of the top leagues in Europe. We would have killed for a player of the calibre of Duff. 

Dennis Irwin is one of Man Utds all time full backs. Shay Given was a top class GK. John Oshea won 5 league titles and a european cup at Man Utd.  Even Richard Dunne ans Seamus Coleman had really good careers in the EPL.

We are only now starting to produce players who establish themselves at that level. 

Dennis Irwin was a class player indeed but he began playing professionally in the early-mid 1980s, earlier than 30 years ago (we were still regularly producing top class talent at that point).

The likes of Coleman, Dunne and O'Shea I'd file under 'very good' rather than elite (Coleman plays for Everton and Dunne played mainly for mediocre Aston Villa and Man City sides).

The fact it's even debatable though still makes your point for you. Football isn't even the number one sport in Ireland and I don't think they even have a full time football league.

[adamntg]

I keep coming here looking for news of transfers for Scottish players but all I find is discussion of the age profile of the Ireland. 

[todd]

1 hour ago, adamntg said:

I keep coming here looking for news of transfers for Scottish players but all I find is discussion of the age profile of the Ireland. 

You should head over to 'Scottish players in action', it's now a debate about racism 😆

[Squirrelhumper]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:58 AM, gonzohiggy said:

Souttar and Jack are in and out. Turnbull and Forrest are out far more than they are in and are no more than squad players. Not exactly a resounding endorsement of Scottish players in the premiership.

Celtic and Rangers have a huge catchment area and a huge pull for young players, it’s inexcusable for them to not produce players ready for their first team. Even the ones you highlight - 3/4 of them were signed from other Scottish clubs. 
 

I think rangers are more culpable as I actually see a couple of players who should be involved now but who aren’t. Young players improve rapidly when given opportunities- just look at mcausland (I know he’s N Irish)

 

I know that, just stating there are more than 1 player who is involved regularly. 

I cannot for the life of me understand why the OF will happily drop £3m on some unknown but would ever do it for Shankland (or McGinn)

[broraboy]

It has all gone very quiet reference Scotland players and transfers ?!? 
 

Scott McKenna needs to move by the end of the month to keep any hope of a call up, looks like the Celtic transfer speculation has gone quiet! 

Che Adams at the moment staying with Southampton although being linked with Wolves + Everton but looks like he’ll be staying with Southampton as goals could be vital for a promotion push……

Lawerence Shankland transfer speculation has gone quiet somewhat, for Hearts + Scotland would be in his interest to remain with the Jambo’s IMO 

Liam Cooper looks to be surplus to requirements at Leeds Utd, looks like he’ll just run the clock down and go on a free and with that a Scotland call up in March / June !!
Has had very little if any game time this season and with that possibly the chance of being brought back into the Scotland fold.

 

[mccaughey85]

5 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I know that, just stating there are more than 1 player who is involved regularly. 

I cannot for the life of me understand why the OF will happily drop £3m on some unknown but would ever do it for Shankland (or McGinn)

Old firm have an sense of entitlement when it comes to buying from other Scottish clubs. 

[dan cake]

5 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I know that, just stating there are more than 1 player who is involved regularly. 

I cannot for the life of me understand why the OF will happily drop £3m on some unknown but would ever do it for Shankland (or McGinn)

Rangers could have had a forward line of Nisbet and Shankland for probably 5 million but they try and lowball clubs with the press doing the dirty work for them, stories about denying the player their dream move etc

[stocky]

42 minutes ago, dan cake said:

Rangers could have had a forward line of Nisbet and Shankland for probably 5 million but they try and lowball clubs with the press doing the dirty work for them, stories about denying the player their dream move etc

Aye, and a defense of McKenna, Porteous and Hickey for around the same price.

And Dykes,  

But Scottish ain't good enough for them..

[mccaughey85]

12 minutes ago, stocky said:

Aye, and a defense of McKenna, Porteous and Hickey for around the same price.

And Dykes,  

But Scottish ain't good enough for them..

Tbf if I was a rangers fan I would probably be aiming higher than some of those players. Porteous plays for an average Watford side and dykes doesn't exactly score much in the English championship.

I think shankland would be a good signing due to him being a proven goalscorer in Scotland and the amount of chances rangers create would probably result in him scoring plenty of goals. 

[BryanBlessed]

13 hours ago, stocky said:

Aye, and a defense of McKenna, Porteous and Hickey for around the same price.

And Dykes,  

But Scottish ain't good enough for them..

Everyone should be happy these players didn't stay in Scotland. Hickey, for example, wouldn't have become the player he is.

[csinclair]

Sassuolo agree £5.1million fee for Doig

[scotlad]

Bit of a sideways move for Doig, if it goes through. 🤔

[mccaughey85]

4 hours ago, scotlad said:

Bit of a sideways move for Doig, if it goes through. 🤔

At least not a backwards step

[syecosse]

Tottenhams u21 captain and Scotland u21 player Michael craig has joined Doncaster on loan. 

[syecosse]

Sassualo have just confirmed Doig signing. 

[dan cake]

20 hours ago, scotlad said:

Bit of a sideways move for Doig, if it goes through. 🤔

Verona desperate for money apparently, Sassualo might be paying the entire fee up front and maybe Marseille was instalments. Anyhoo you’d imagine he’ll be starting most weeks in great league for defenders to gain experience.