The 45

[weekevie04]

Who's with me?

I've slept I think 5hrs since Thursday. I'm tired and hugely emotional,but we keep going.

Some are done with Scotland, I thought I would be and in betwen the tears, I don't want to give up. I want to keep going and want us all to keep up too.

I've probably repeated mysef on other threads, but we help each other - we support all the Yes movements (and from the sounds of it ) they will all keep going, but we find an alliance e.g we vote SNP for Westminister, Greens, SSP for Holyrood.

All of us who engaged in this process do not give up.

We give many of us gutted time to release the rage/anger, but we channel this and move on together as a lose alliance.

We can't give up, not yet.

Not when the 4 poorest areas of Scotland voted yes - we cannot leave them behind.

[EddardStark]

Who's with me?

I've slept I think 5hrs since Thursday. I'm tired and hugely emotional,but we keep going.

Some are done with Scotland, I thought I would be and in betwen the tears, I don't want to give up. I want to keep going and want us all to keep up too.

I've probably repeated mysef on other threads, but we help each other - we support all the Yes movements (and from the sounds of it ) they will all keep going, but we find an alliance e.g we vote SNP for Westminister, Greens, SSP for Holyrood.

All of us who engaged in this process do not give up.

We give many of us gutted time to release the rage/anger, but we channel this and move on together as a lose alliance.

We can't give up, not yet.

Not when the 4 poorest areas of Scotland voted yes - we cannot leave them behind.

I imagine the cities will be targeted by Unionist parties to improve their lot. Taking away the economic aspect of the voting preference.

[thplinth]

1st. Don't accept the No, it is not legitimate.

2nd. Join the SNP if you have not already. It sends a vitally important message right now to all concerned.

3rd. Pressure the SNP from within to keep fighting for Yes. None of this generation shyte. We are not laying down we are escalating it. (See step 1.)

[Pool Q]

The first thing I'd say is that we should recognise that the referendum was lost and lost badly. People who voted No will react badly if the SNP and Yes voters simply refuse to recognise this and continue to talk as if the vote never happened, and it is from within their ranks that those we need to take our share of the vote up from 45% to over 50%. Put simply, a lot of people are tired of this at the moment, it will alienate them if anyone tries to keep it at the centre of everything at a time when the NHS and the welfare state is in danger of being dismantled. The SNP, which I joined yesterday, obviously will continue to campaign for independence, and so it should but its' main focus in the short term needs to be a smooth transition to a new leader and then to continue to govern as effectively as possible at Holyroood, so that they can secure a majority at the next elections to the Scottish parliament. The austerity measures on the way from Westminster after next years' elections (Tory or Labour government) and the subsequent attack on Barnett need to be fought and dealt with.

My strong belief is that the unionist parties have put in a place a constitutional crisis with the Brown plan, that will, with the issue of the EU and UKIP, create a shambles at UK level. I simply can't see any way that Cameron can deliver any sort of meaningful powers to Scotland without a 're-balancing' of the constitution, which means dealing with the English/ WLQ at the same time. And, bluntly, he simply isn't capable of doing that. Labour can't agree to English votes for English laws. The Tories are terrified of UKIP and are slavering at the prospect of doing away with Barnett. As I said in an earlier thread, devolution in the UK is fundamentally unworkable, it is a state that is slowly falling apart anyway. I never thought this vote was winnable; I'm more confident today than ever that within the next 15-20 years Scotland (and England) will be independent.

[thplinth]

Lost badly? That is rubbish.

Devo Max added on at the last minute?

Every single newspaper bar one Sunday backing No.

The state broadcaster campaigning for No running one bogus scare story after another.

45% under these condition is a stunning result given the vote was cheated for No.

If it had been a fair vote Yes would have destroyed you.

[Pool Q]

If it had been a fair vote Yes would have destroyed you.

destroyed me?

[thplinth]

destroyed me?

The No's.

[Pool Q]

The No's.

Which is not me.

[thewelk]

I registered as an overseas voter yesterday for the general election. I don't usually bother with the GE because it never changed anything. Monkey-red rosette etc. But this time I'm going to be fired up and ready to punish those Scottish labour c**ts. With the expat vote now included the 45 is actually much higher. I can't wait for the day when there are more pandas in Edinburgh zoo than labour MPs in Scotland.

Edited September 21, 2014 by thewelk

[Pool Q]

Incidentally thplinth you are right, my use of the term 'lost badly' is wrong. It was an extraordinary campaign, one I was privileged to play a small part in. I should have said something like lost by a considerable margin.

[thplinth]

Incidentally thplinth you are right, my use of the term 'lost badly' is wrong. It was an extraordinary campaign, one I was privileged to play a small part in. I should have said something like lost by a considerable margin.

If we had run the vote with three options I would imagine you would get roughly a third, a third a third plus or minus a bit on each one.

So to bring in a third option at the last minute and park it under the No box caused a swing. That is why the did it.

So to get 45 despite this is even more stunning.

We 'lost' but it was cheated. In my book that is not actually losing, you were cheated, not the same thing at all.

[irnbruman]

Lots of good points in your post Pool, but prior to the next Scottish election is the general election next May. If everyone who voted YES gets behind SNP/Green/SSC etc , there is no way Labour in Scotland can counteract this. The emphasis must be on procuring substantially more YES MPs in the house of commons. More a statement of feeling throughout Scotland than the limited effectiveness that Scottish MPs will have. An added bonus would be the eradication of Scottish Labour which is essential.

[thewelk]

Lots of good points in your post Pool, but prior to the next Scottish election is the general election next May. If everyone who voted YES gets behind SNP/Green/SSC etc , there is no way Labour in Scotland can counteract this. The emphasis must be on procuring substantially more YES MPs in the house of commons. More a statement of feeling throughout Scotland than the limited effectiveness that Scottish MPs will have. An added bonus would be the eradication of Scottish Labour which is essential.

Completely agree. But it would need to be quite well coordinated or you'd risk diluting the vote enough for the red tory vote to still prevail. First past the post undemocratic shite.

[thplinth]

If 10% of the Yes vote joined the SNP now how many hundreds of percent increase in total membership would that be in total SNP membership (compared to before the referendum vote)?

That is not a new mandate but it is sure as fukk a new beach head on the way to one.

[Toepoke]

If 10% of the Yes vote joined the SNP now how many hundreds of percent increase in total membership would that be in total SNP membership (compared to before the referendum vote)?

It would be an increase of over 600%.

The SNP would then be almost tied with Labour as the largest party in the whole of the UK...

[Tartan Bairn]

If 10% of the Yes vote joined the SNP now how many hundreds of percent increase in total membership would that be in total SNP membership (compared to before the referendum vote)?

That is not a new mandate but it is sure as fukk a new beach head on the way to one.

Based on the last couple if days there's a few figures in twitter saying SNP membership is only about 7 or 8 thousand below The Lib Dems a party with a uk wide outreach instead of just 10% of the UK population.

[thplinth]

Based on the last couple if days there's a few figures in twitter saying SNP membership is only about 7 or 8 thousand below The Lib Dems a party with a uk wide outreach instead of just 10% of the UK population.

2013 estimates suggest that the Conservative Party claimed 134,000 members, the Labour party 190,000 and the Liberal Democrat Party 43,000.

​I see no reason why we don't set them all in our sites. It would only take a small % of the angry 45 to do it. 10% or so...

​People should post threads on their club sites encouraging it. I would but I don't have a club.

[Betty]

I'll be joining Monday as soon as I have access to a pc. Mr Betty is on his way to doing the same. I can no longer sit on the sidelines. I did what I felt confident to do this time. Next I'll be better informed of the facts in order to engage with people and firmly answer their questions.

[thplinth]

If we had run the vote with three options I would imagine you would get roughly a third, a third a third plus or minus a bit on each one.

So to bring in a third option at the last minute and park it under the No box caused a swing. That is why they did it.

I would like to just add something to this.

What they achieved by doing this was a false No, in reality it was mixture of No's and Devo Max's stolen from Yes at the last gasp by introducing Devo Max under the No banner.

Without (a fake) Devo Max included with No they never would have got near 55% nor 50%.

It is a false No.

They cheated us. It is 79 all over again as many thought it would be.

[sub50]

I would like to just add something to this.

What they achieved by doing this was a false No, in reality it was mixture of No's and Devo Max's stolen from Yes at the last gasp by introducing Devo Max under the No banner.

Without (a fake) Devo Max included with No they never would have got near 55% nor 50%.

It is a false No.

They cheated us. It is 79 all over again as many thought it would be.

I agree ,they created a three way vote using only two options. It was despicable and an affront to democracy. Hundreds of thousands had voted when Devo Max suddenly roared onto the scene. Many of them truly voted for no change and had the meaning of their vote change after the fact.

There was no reporting of this angle.

[thplinth]

Remember it was Cameron who forced us to have 2 choices on the ballot and not 3.

Why?

So if he needs to he can come up at the last minute and attach it to the No ballot.

It is a scandal and an outrage.

Scotland FFS...get angry.

Edited September 21, 2014 by thplinth

[sub50]

Remember it was Cameron who forced us to have 2 choices on the ballot and not 3.

Why?

So if he needs to he can come up at the last minute and attach it to the No ballot.

It is a scandal and an outrage.

Scotland FFS...get angry.

That gives him and them a credit they are not due.

It was a panicked last minute measure. Desperate and cynical but certainly not a long term strategy. A long term strategy would not have boxed them into the untenable position they find themselves trying to square a circle. Devo Max/English parliament/federalisation? They are about to be in an awful mess.

[hampden_loon2878]

Right i stay in a small village beside fraserburgh and during the count one BT posted on my face book that my village voted no by 4 votes,, one i though info was not allowed released until after the region had been counted and two how do you find out if this is correct that we lost the vote by 4 votes

[Jonny]

Who's with me?

I've slept I think 5hrs since Thursday. I'm tired and hugely emotional,but we keep going.

Some are done with Scotland, I thought I would be and in betwen the tears, I don't want to give up. I want to keep going and want us all to keep up too.

I've probably repeated mysef on other threads, but we help each other - we support all the Yes movements (and from the sounds of it ) they will all keep going, but we find an alliance e.g we vote SNP for Westminister, Greens, SSP for Holyrood.

All of us who engaged in this process do not give up.

We give many of us gutted time to release the rage/anger, but we channel this and move on together as a lose alliance.

We can't give up, not yet.

Not when the 4 poorest areas of Scotland voted yes - we cannot leave them behind.

I'm with you Kevie. We come back from this more invigorated than ever. Yes lost the vote but it won the argument. The argument will never go away. We continue to fight for independence with renewed vigour and pride in what has been achieved so far.

[Alibi]

Remember it was Cameron who forced us to have 2 choices on the ballot and not 3.

Why?

So if he needs to he can come up at the last minute and attach it to the No ballot.

It is a scandal and an outrage.

Scotland FFS...get angry.

I for one am very angry at the moment. I feel we have been cheated.