EvilScotsman Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Matt Elliot?! Don't get me started... It does seem incongruous that something so profound as a vote on self governance (or whether to be a nation again) excluded large numbers of people who would unequivocally identify themselves as Scots but whom for whatever reason have left Scotland in the last 15 years. The fact they would be included were a general election is the clue here. Perhaps the problem with it is more one of practicalities rather than precedents. I am not even sure the (<15yr) expat Scot vote would be Yes or No. Hmmm not quite but. You guys are the ones saying 'exclude Scottish expats', based it seems on them 'not paying tax' mostly but I have shown that argument to be badly flawed. I have also highlighted the inconsistencies of treating soldiers differently to others who have jobs that are likely to send them overseas at some point, as well as pensioners who move abroad after making a lifetimes worth of contributions to the UK tax pot. You are the ones agreeing with their Scottish disenfranchisement not me. My system would include residents and expats and so is fair(er). Consequently, as your position leads to disenfranchisement of expats, it is I humbly suggest perhaps more your responsibility to be sure your position is sound. In my view it is not and it should be revisited. Again all IMHO of course. (You have about 10 years to think about it all again at least before it may become an issue once more so take your time.) My argument was nothing to do with tax and everything to do with practicalities, as you acknowledge above before swiftly moving on. Where do you draw the line? Edited October 9, 2014 by EvilScotsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 My argument was nothing to do with tax and everything to do with practicalities, as you acknowledge above before swiftly moving on. Where do you draw the line? I did say mostly i.e not all. i.e not you. I thought 15 years seemed ok but after browsing that website campaigning for expat voting rights I am leaning towards no limit on expats voting. Maybe some rules about taking citizenship of a foreign country and becoming eligible to vote there perhaps, dunno would have to read into it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I did say mostly i.e not all. i.e not you. I thought 15 years seemed ok but after browsing that website campaigning for expat voting rights I am leaning towards no limit on expats voting. Maybe some rules about taking citizenship of a foreign country and becoming eligible to vote there perhaps, dunno would have to read into it more. That will never happen, Scotty CTA being the perfect example, born in Scotland moved away as a boy yet able to vote on a countrys independence that he visits for holidays. That just isnt right IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Absolutely. The population growth is another issue. Struggling to find stats but Scotland's population has only increased by around 600k in the past 100 years Happy to help, PIAK. Here is a link to a post I made a couple of weeks ago, comparing RoI's population with Scotland's: http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1150&p=23737 In the white paper the SG mentioned a target of increasing immigration by about 2k per annum over and above what it currently is. I reckon if we had achieved independence then that target, in the first couple of years anyway, would have been far exceeded solely by expats returning home. Instead, this morning the Scottish Sun carried an advert for a jobs fare at the SECC this weekend, for jobs in Australia, Canada and New Zealand. I think it says something about a place when a national newspaper carries adds encouraging people to consider emigration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Posted this pash in Sep 2006 apparently... dearie me... this is why you should delete old files. Independence is a gateway. The SNP are a gateway. It is irrelevant what you think of the SNP because the whole point of a gateway, is to go through it. You go through and after that your need of it is gone. The purpose of the SNP is to provide an exit from an old world and an entrance to the new. What will the world be like on the other side? Well that will be up to us. New political parties will be formed and new faces will emerge. It might be scary to you, you may believe that we Scots are too crap to run our own country, but I guarantee you your kids won’t buy that bucket of pish. They will just think you are mental (or worse a pathetic unable to shake of their uncle tam conditioning). In a single generation unionism will be dead as dead can be. It is an artificial and contrived state of mind, entirely dependent on constant fear mongering and disinformation. Reality post independence will sweep it away like the flimsy bullshyte it is. But ask yourself, why is the unionist story is always such a negative one? Why do unionists invest so little time arguing the positives of the union and so much time slagging of Scots and Scotland? Why is it always personal attacks and snidey comments – why no substance at all? What kind of ‘Scottish’ politics is this? How can unionism be in Scotland interests (at all) when it spends most of its time running down and badmouthing Scotland and Scots? Does that not tell you something folks? These guys are not our friends. Their allegiance is not to Scotland. It is to some other power. How many other countries will go before us before we see this truth? These countries all thrive post independence, all of them. None, not one, would ever go back. Most of these countries had nothing by way of natural resources or labour skills compared to Scotland when they took the plunge. But they did have balls. And by that I mean a burning belief in their country and their people. As the cliché goes, the only thing we have to fear here is fear itself. Fear will (continue to) enslave us far faster than any foreign power ever will. So ask yourself who is peddling fear here and WHY ? Who is running down your country and your people and WHY? Are you going to trust them or those who believe in our own abilities. Why not drop the heavy (sectarian laden) baggage and walk through the gateway. Scotland will blossom if we do – for the first time in a long time. Edited October 9, 2014 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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