Voting

[Rossy]

9 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

It took me less than 30 seconds to verify you're talking shite!

Maybe.

But there's still no 'outraged vocal section' demanding a new referendum. 

[ErsatzThistle]

A look at the fringe parties vote:

UKIP: 46,426

Solidarity: 14,333

Scottish Christian: 11,686

RISE: 10,911

Women's Equality: 5,968

So much for the fuss some were making about RISE then ......

Edited May 8, 2016 by ErsatzThistle

[Caledonian Craig]

11 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Nah, i don't see how that works. The SNP governed the country competently from 2007 to 2011, yet support for independence stayed around the traditional 30% mark.

The only way i see support for indy growing is from outside factors outwith SNP control:

1. The economic case for independence improving (i.e. oil going back to $100 a barrel).

2. Brexit

3. The ageing unionist demographic going to the big hoose in the sky to pool and share their resources with St. Peter.

Of course your points are all spot on but they cannot take their eye off running the country well and even being innovative. They have also got to try Labour tactics. Labour were not a viable electable option for two decades then Blair came along and moved them more to the right as a party and they hoovered up disenchanted Tory voters and from being unelectable walked into Westminster. The SNP has to do something similar as in make themselves and independence seem more palatable to more people - that is key. They need to get their thinking caps on. No need to rush things though and they need to make sure the timing is right.

[Caledonian Craig]

12 hours ago, Dave78 said:

 

3. The ageing unionist demographic going to the big hoose in the sky to pool and share their resources with St. Peter.

On reflection this point is irrelevant. As just as many pro-independence voters are popping their clogs as unionist voters so it is status quo.

Also if you think about it unionism (just as other traits and beliefs) are engrained into children's psyche from a very young age. Just as you get two-year-old bairns photographed in Celtic or Rangers tops you get parents programming their children - sounds callous but it clearly does happen. And so by the time they go to school their mindset for life is fixed and it is continually drilled into them. Not just picking on unionism here - it happens in all beliefs and such-like.

[Scunnered]

11 hours ago, Rossy said:

Maybe.

But there's still no 'outraged vocal section' demanding a new referendum. 

You're of course wrong.  But it makes no difference to me whether you acknowledge it or not.

7 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

So much for the fuss some were making about RISE then ......

Yep.  I think we can put the "There's more chance of socialism in an independent Scotland than in the UK" argument to bed.

[Toepoke]

8 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

So much for the fuss some were making about RISE then ......

Disappointed Cat Boyd didn't get elected, she'd have got my list vote if I was still in Glasgow...

[Redz]

1 hour ago, Scunnered said:

You're of course wrong.  But it makes no difference to me whether you acknowledge it or not.

I think it's a reasonable straight forward question from Rossy.

Naming them would certainly help you.

 

[thplinth]

1 hour ago, Scunnered said:

Yep.  I think we can put the "There's more chance of socialism in an independent Scotland than in the UK" argument to bed.

Aye Scotland has you know what'ed you once again...

 

[dipped flake]

There is no real support for another referendum in the SNP at the moment. The only people going on and on about it are the unionist parties and media, trying to sicken the Scottish public. Of course there will be some loonies on Facebook shouting about Freedom but loonies will be loonies

[TDYER63]

23 hours ago, Scunnered said:

Not just the MSM and Davidson.  The SNP are stuck between a rock and a hard place re: another referendum.  A vocal section of their support are utterly outraged that they haven't already called one, I saw some young pup getting a dressing down from a couple of the "old guard" because he was urging caution.  There already is, and will be more infighting.

The SNP won't call another referendum until polls show that it is strongly in the lead for a sustained period of time, we're talking 2-3 years.  And it's the absolute right thing for them to do.

I have to agree with Rossy regarding the vocal section, or rather lack or it.

I joined the SNP in Oct 14 and have attended every branch meeting since and have been active in Renfrewshire North and West Westminster and Holyrood election campaigns. I can honestly say in all that time i have never heard anyone talk of another referendum in the foreseeable future or be aggreived at this . I have heard Ruth Davidson mention the word referendum more  than any Snp member. 

Admittedly I do not do social media other than this board but by the sound of it there are nutters everywhere. If there are alledged snp supporters miffed about caution being taken on another referendum then I would suggest they are well in the minority. My sampling is based on what real , in the flesh people are saying and not the rantings of social media. 

I absolutely agree with you on the timing of any future referendum. 

 

[Scunnered]

1 hour ago, Redz said:

I think it's a reasonable straight forward question from Rossy.

Naming them would certainly help you.

 

He didn't ask me to name the TAMBER who is concerned about said vocal section, if he did I wouldn't.  They posted their concerns on Facebook, it would be wrong of me to bring them to this board.  They're a regular poster so I'm sure they will see this thread, then it will be up to them whether they share their concerns or not.

[Scunnered]

48 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Aye Scotland has you know what'ed you once again...

 

[Caledonian Craig]

And is it not clear why Davidson keeps harping on about a referendum? The more she can keep it relevant and make it look like SNP are going on about it then the more she keeps a firm hold of the union vote. It also acts as a method of goading a reaction and hoping to draw out a reaction.

[thplinth]

The history of Scotland voting for socialism.

UK

Scottish

Scotland did not fall out love with socialism, just they saw through the charlatans who cloaked themselves in socialist uniforms while troughing it for decades at the tax payers expense.

Labour need to stop blaming the SNP, the people of Scotland for their own failure. They trusted Labour for decades and you sold them out every time.

Is Glasgow City Council still labour? If so please Lord make them next on the list to fall...

 

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by thplinth

[Scunnered]

16 minutes ago, thplinth said:

The history of Scotland voting for socialism.

UK

Scottish

Scotland did not fall out love with socialism, just they saw through the charlatans who cloaked themselves in socialist uniforms while troughing it for decades at the tax payers expense.

Labour need to stop blaming the SNP, the people of Scotland for their own failure. They trusted Labour for decades and you sold them out every time.

Is Glasgow City Council still labour? If so please Lord make them next on the list to fall...

 

 

We will rise again!  The right wing media were predicting an all out collapse from Labour over the past few weeks, and yet we managed to secure all 4 major mayorships including taking the greatest city in the world, maintained a Welsh minority government.  Some are arguing that Scottish Labour were too far to the left to take Holyrood, and they may be right.  But the parties reaction will not be a return to the centre, we will continue to make the case for progressive politics vs Nationalism.

 

[Ally Bongo]

I've missed Anas Sarwar

 

[exile]

25 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

And is it not clear why Davidson keeps harping on about a referendum? The more she can keep it relevant and make it look like SNP are going on about it then the more she keeps a firm hold of the union vote. It also acts as a method of goading a reaction and hoping to draw out a reaction.

It's a supreme irony - though I don't recall anyone pinpointing when this happened - that the Tory/unionist press mantra was for a while all about the Holyrood debate needing to move on from the referendum, and how to use the new tax powers, but by the end of the campaign, all we heard was Ruth Davidson banging on about the referendum, and mysteriously proposing (I think) no material changes to tax at all.

[Pool Q]

36 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I have to agree with Rossy regarding the vocal section, or rather lack or it.

I joined the SNP in Oct 14 and have attended every branch meeting since and have been active in Renfrewshire North and West Westminster and Holyrood election campaigns. I can honestly say in all that time i have never heard anyone talk of another referendum in the foreseeable future or be aggreived at this . I have heard Ruth Davidson mention the word referendum more  than any Snp member. 

I'd echo most of that. There are a few people I hear at meetings in Edinburgh Central who talk of a second referendum sooner rather than later, often linked to the EU vote, but they are in a small minority from what I can make out. The only person in any sort of authority I've heard talk about it is the Convener from a neighbouring branch who is also, as it happens, in my pub quiz team, but he isn't taken that seriously by anyone I know. A referendum will only be looked for if the SNP are pretty much certain they will win it, and there is no prospect of that in the near to mid term, as Thursday's vote confirmed. Davidson knows this too of course. Social media is another thing entirely, there are plenty of roasters there saying pretty much anything you want to find on any subject if you look for it.

[Caledonian Craig]

Bide one's time for a number of reasons:-

1. Gain respect for being able to govern Scotland well and perhaps win over nay sayers.

2. Use the time in power to try to make Scotland as self-sustainable as possible cutting as many ties as is legally possible with Westminster's budget etc.

3. Work out a strong mandate for independence including a focussed vision on currency and other issues that were picked apart at the last referendum.

4. Also wait for the inevitable. Either Westminster leading the UK into another war nobody wants or more scandal within the government. As sure as eggs are eggs it will happen.

5. Wait until a long sustained spell of polls show at least two thirds in favour of independence.

The press for the referendum. Not before.

[iainmac1]

12 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Bide one's time for a number of reasons:-

1. Gain respect for being able to govern Scotland well and perhaps win over nay sayers.

2. Use the time in power to try to make Scotland as self-sustainable as possible cutting as many ties as is legally possible with Westminster's budget etc.

3. Work out a strong mandate for independence including a focussed vision on currency and other issues that were picked apart at the last referendum.

4. Also wait for the inevitable. Either Westminster leading the UK into another war nobody wants or more scandal within the government. As sure as eggs are eggs it will happen.

5. Wait until a long sustained spell of polls show at least two thirds in favour of independence.

The press for the referendum. Not before.

I agree with the majority of that but if we are waiting till 66% are in favour of Independence in polls then we will be waiting indefinitely! 55% for a sustained period would be enough to go for it. 

[Caledonian Craig]

6 minutes ago, iainmac1 said:

I agree with the majority of that but if we are waiting till 66% are in favour of Independence in polls then we will be waiting indefinitely! 55% for a sustained period would be enough to go for it. 

Somewhere in between our figures then. I'd say 55% is cutting it too fine especially as these would only be polls. Minimum of high 50s or 60% then. As I said press the button when sure and use the interim time to make sure they are fully prepared.

[exile]

28 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Bide one's time for a number of reasons:-

1. Gain respect for being able to govern Scotland well and perhaps win over nay sayers.

2. Use the time in power to try to make Scotland as self-sustainable as possible cutting as many ties as is legally possible with Westminster's budget etc.

3. Work out a strong mandate for independence including a focussed vision on currency and other issues that were picked apart at the last referendum.

4. Also wait for the inevitable. Either Westminster leading the UK into another war nobody wants or more scandal within the government. As sure as eggs are eggs it will happen.

5. Wait until a long sustained spell of polls show at least two thirds in favour of independence.

The press for the referendum. Not before.

I think if they're serious about independence, they need to go well beyond the remit of Holyrood and start investing now in outward links - social and political - with the rest of the UK and with countries abroad.

In a sense the original referendum came so quickly there was no time to put these in place. Abroad, Scotland seemed so isolated, with almost no other country or international body of any stature prepared to make any sympathetic noises (unlike any number of other countries seeking self-determination or recognition who attract supporters and sympathisers). And within the UK the default reaction of Scots in other parts of UK seemed to be to a sudden fear of separation, when in fact those same people happily live with and work with colleagues from all over Europe and the world without feeling any pain or anguish - think of all the families joined across the Irish Sea without any angst or rancour due to being in different countries (for example Ruth's partner is from Ireland and she seems entirely relaxed about that without feeling the need to share a passport and government).

Building up these links - of whatever kind - take time but now would seem the time to make a start on it. And they should be worth doing of themselves to promote cultural and trade links whether or not Scotland gains independence or home rule or anything else.

 

 

[Ally Bongo]

One of the more interesting things from Thursday is how the complete imbecile that is Willie Rennie was able to whistle up 5000 extra voters 

Now if it was somebody dynamic that was standing then fair enough

But Willie Rennie ?

Now we know why he was grinning like a 5 year old in the days leading up to the election - he knew something nobody else did

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Ally Bongo

[Scunnered]

15 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

One of the more interesting things from Thursday is how the complete imbecile that is Willie Rennie was able to whistle up 5000 extra voters 

Now if it was somebody dynamic that was standing then fair enough

But Willie Rennie ?

Lot of folks in Scotland like bacon.

[Toepoke]

28 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Willie Rennie ?

Enjoyed him being dismantled on Breaking the News...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b079qy1l#play

"Paw Broon on acid"