Voting

[euan2020]

11 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

I've read that through twice and I can't in any way, shape or form see a jibe about Salmond and his wife being childless.  Catchy headline though

“But there is one thing which the First Minister has discovered this year. Women give birth to children. Then they look after them. So when his focus groups tell him women don’t like him he discovers childcare. It wasn’t exactly the same as Fleming discovering penicillin. Splitting the atom it was not but I suppose the First Minister learning anything about how real Scots live their lives is some sort of progress. I’m not going to give any theories about why the First Minister has a problem with women. But let me offer this thought. The huge issues which women face here and abroad are deeper than any constitutional arrangement and they must be addressed with political will regardless of what the constitutional settlement may be. I know that not one step on the road to greater equality for women was ever delivered without a battle so whatever happens in the referendum this September it will not mean that women’s lives will be better. The argument for greater equality must always be made and won on its own terms. We will continue to highlight inequality and demand change. But let me be clear. If there is to be any progress for women there has to be a connection between ambition and practical delivery. It is not enough just to describe the challenges which women face, there has to be a commitment to change.”

 

I dont see that anything other than a dig for not having kids or having experience of living with/raising kids 

[Scunnered]

1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

Very first line

But there is one thing which the First Minister has discovered this year. Women give birth to children.

Really?   It's hardly on Ian Davison levels is it?  It would take an outrageous amount of spin and stretching to attribute that to being a jibe at the Salmond's being childless.  In my humble opinion.

[Scunnered]

4 minutes ago, euan2020 said:

I dont see that anything other than a dig for not having kids or having experience of living with/raising kids 

If anything I read it as a jibe at Salmond's sudden interest in addressing his unpopularity among women voters.

[Ally Bongo]

3 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

Really?   It's hardly on Ian Davison levels is it?  It would take an outrageous amount of spin and stretching to attribute that to being a jibe at the Salmond's being childless.  In my humble opinion.

She said it during her speech at the 2014 conference and it got the desired response to what was clearly intended

I dont know why you would need to spin and stretch it - it's crystal clear that it is a jibe at Salmond being childless

Maybe you just dont want to see it

 

[Scunnered]

1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

Maybe you just dont want to see it

I think you're looking for things that aren't there.

[Ally Bongo]

2 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

I think you're looking for things that aren't there.

 

Aye ok

[Scunnered]

6 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 

Aye ok

I'm fairly prolific at the sly dig myself...  But I dinnae see it here.  Sorry.

[euan2020]

8 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

If anything I read it as a jibe at Salmond's sudden interest in addressing his unpopularity among women voters.

I think she would have been fully conscious that Salmond had no children, especially the language she used, and personally i would not be using the same references or language with people who i know are childless, and had wanted children.

This was a pro-active reference and i think the language was well chosen by her   

[Toepoke]

Tend to agree with Scunnered on this, I would read Lamont's comments there as a political criticism and not a personal one.

I've heard Salmond say himself that he quite liked her.

 

[aaid]

33 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Very first line

But there is one thing which the First Minister has discovered this year. Women give birth to children.

Again, I'm with Scunnered here - twice in one day and it's not even lunchtime yet - I need to go and lie down in a darkened room .

If she'd said that about Nicola Sturgeon then she should be roundly condemned but to me it's an attack on Salmond's in particular and men in general's lack of understanding of women's issues. You can agree or disagree with that but I think it's a stretch to read it as being directed at Moira Salmond.

 

 

[Ally Bongo]

It's a running theme with Unionists but if you want to defend her then thats your perogative

As i said - it was said at Conference and designed to get a reaction - which it did

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754216/Childless-SNP-chiefs-no-feel-UK-family-Leaders-Scottish-National-Party-want-break-Union-not-understand-families-claimed.html

 

 

 

[euan2020]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

Again, I'm with Scunnered here - twice in one day and it's not even lunchtime yet - I need to go and lie down in a darkened room .

If she'd said that about Nicola Sturgeon then she should be roundly condemned but to me it's an attack on Salmond's in particular and men in general's lack of understanding of women's issues. You can agree or disagree with that but I think it's a stretch to read it as being directed at Moira Salmond.

 

 

If i used this reference to my friend who is childless i would get a punch in the face

"if is one thing which John has discovered this year. Women give birth to children."

Now by coincidence around 1 year back he was threatening to smack somebody who dared suggest he didnt want children

[Scunnered]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

I'm with Scunnered on this one I'm afraid.  

 

8 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Tend to agree with Scunnered on this

 

4 minutes ago, aaid said:

Again, I'm with Scunnered here - twice in one day and it's not even lunchtime yet - I need to go and lie down in a darkened room .

It must be the heat boys   I'm about 3 hours into a 14 hour shift and all I can think about is going home and playing Minecraft.

[Scunnered]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

 if you want to defend her then thats your perogative

I'm not defending her...  How can I?  We disagree on the meaning of what was said.

That Daily Mail article was disgusting, I remember it from the time.

[Ally Bongo]

30 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

I'm not defending her...  How can I?  We disagree on the meaning of what was said.

 

If it was an off the cuff remark in an interview then fair enough

This was a carefully drafted speech with writers, policy advisors et al 

[Scunnered]

5 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

If it was an off the cuff remark in an interview then fair enough

This was a carefully drafted speech with writers, policy advisors et al 

It was carefully planned, having read the entire speech it is actually an excellent speech and probably her highlight as leader of Scottish Labour... But no matter how I look at it, and from what angle, I cannot see a jibe about Alex Salmond and his wife not having children. I just don't think it is there.

[Ally Bongo]

15 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

It was carefully planned, having read the entire speech it is actually an excellent speech and probably her highlight as leader of Scottish Labour... But no matter how I look at it, and from what angle, I cannot see a jibe about Alex Salmond and his wife not having children. I just don't think it is there.

 

57 minutes ago, euan2020 said:

If i used this reference to my friend who is childless i would get a punch in the face

"if is one thing which John has discovered this year. Women give birth to children."

 

 

[Scunnered]

That shows absolutely nothing, other than Euans friend likes punching people.

And you can't remove complete context from a situation and expect them to be comparable. Johanns speech, to me is regarding Salmonds sudden interest in policies that focus on women, and nothing else. Again, in my humblest of all opinions.

[Mindimoo]

13 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

That shows absolutely nothing, other than Euans friend likes punching people.

And you can't remove complete context from a situation and expect them to be comparable. Johanns speech, to me is regarding Salmonds sudden interest in policies that focus on women, and nothing else. Again, in my humblest of all opinions.

Agreed.

[thplinth]

Some wee dick somewhere has clearly decided this a weak spot given the number of times it gets 'innocently' brought up.

[euan2020]

40 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

That shows absolutely nothing, other than Euans friend likes punching people.

And you can't remove complete context from a situation and expect them to be comparable. Johanns speech, to me is regarding Salmonds sudden interest in policies that focus on women, and nothing else. Again, in my humblest of all opinions.

I would suggest if you made this reference to any man who is childless, and wanted children you would get a punch in the face - very easy for someone, who is with child, to be flippant about it - you would get the same from a woman as well 

I guess it works the other way - Lamont said he has no experience of having children - She ( & you ) have no experience of not having children, when there is a desire and ache to have children  

its very easy to be flippant about peoples feelings - 

& the thing is - she meant this 

 

[Scunnered]

25 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Some wee dick somewhere has clearly decided this a weak spot given the number of times it gets 'innocently' brought up.

I don't think such a comment or attack can be dismissed as "innocent", not in this day and age.

[Scunnered]

3 minutes ago, euan2020 said:

& the thing is - she meant this 

 

I don't think she did.

[Glasgowmancity]

23 minutes ago, euan2020 said:

 

I guess it works the other way - Lamont said he has no experience of having children - She ( & you ) have no experience of not having children  

 

 

What about before their kids were born - surely they were childless then?

 

[euan2020]

36 minutes ago, Glasgowmancity said:

What about before their kids were born - surely they were childless then?

 

below is my full quote

 -  "I guess it works the other way - Lamont said he has no experience of having children - She ( & you ) have no experience of not having children, when there is a desire and ache to have children"