EU Referendum

[scotlad]

14 hours ago, girvanTA said:

Haha, aye very good. Aye she's also very good at having an affair with Jeremy "the sympathiser" corbyn.

You should watch the youtube videos on her racism.

especially

"white people love to play divide and conquer" or what about

"finnish girls who have blonde hair and blue eyes shouldnt be nurses because they have never met a black person before"

 

She' s an arse of a person end of

Corbyn's white though, so she can't mind white people that much if she's prepared to have an affair with one; unless she developed her alleged dislike of white people afterwards (or possibly even as a consequence).

That comment about Finnish nurses - if true - is astonishing though, as well as wrong (like most northern European countries these days, Finland isn't a monoculture).

Still, the mental image of blonde, blue eyed girls clad in nurses uniforms has successfully counteracted the mental image of Jez and Diane doing the wild thing. 

[86glebestreet]

2 hours ago, scotlad said:

Corbyn's white though, so she can't mind white people that much if she's prepared to have an affair with one; unless she developed her alleged dislike of white people afterwards (or possibly even as a consequence).

That comment about Finnish nurses - if true - is astonishing though, as well as wrong (like most northern European countries these days, Finland isn't a monoculture).

Still, the mental image of blonde, blue eyed girls clad in nurses uniforms has successfully counteracted the mental image of Jez and Diane doing the wild thing. 

Never saw the one about Finnish nurses, but I saw her  refusing to answer Andrew Neil when he asked her why she said black mothers would do more  for their children than white mothers, or words to that effect, 

I can't stand her

[PapofGlencoe]

i have no idea what im voting here.  Thought it would become clearer but if anything it's got worse!  Now totally get how people could be undecided in the indy ref!  

immigration doesn't concern me.  

lack of democracy does.

daft scare stories and the fact Lord Salisbury and the rest of the barons are supporting remain makes me queasy.  I'm not sure i can hold  my nose and vote remain if it gives support to this mob.  

UKIP and the racists are on the other side.  can't support them either.

I think I started like as pro EU as Nick Clegg and now Im more Tony Benn.  

christ knows. 

[Rossy]

15 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

i have no idea what im voting here.  Thought it would become clearer but if anything it's got worse!  Now totally get how people could be undecided in the indy ref!  

immigration doesn't concern me.  

lack of democracy does.

daft scare stories and the fact Lord Salisbury and the rest of the barons are supporting remain makes me queasy.  I'm not sure i can hold  my nose and vote remain if it gives support to this mob.  

UKIP and the racists are on the other side.  can't support them either.

I think I started like as pro EU as Nick Clegg and now Im more Tony Benn.  

christ knows. 

Let's see how much you love democracy if the UK votes 'out' and the Tories overturn all the EU regulations that benefit workers and that protect your civil liberties.

Anyone with a 12 year old kid can look forward to them cleaning chimneys for 60 hours a week on a zero hours contract.

 

[86glebestreet]

16 minutes ago, Rossy said:

Let's see how much you love democracy if the UK votes 'out' and the Tories overturn all the EU regulations that benefit workers and that protect your civil liberties.

Anyone with a 12 year old kid can look forward to them cleaning chimneys for 60 hours a week on a zero hours contract.

 

Sounds a bit like project fear 

[girvanTA]

Evidence please?

Im not right wing, im not left wing in straight down the middle.

Because you have been shown up doesnt mean you can shout racist and win an arguement.

I really pity you

[PapofGlencoe]

28 minutes ago, Rossy said:

Let's see how much you love democracy if the UK votes 'out' and the Tories overturn all the EU regulations that benefit workers and that protect your civil liberties.

Anyone with a 12 year old kid can look forward to them cleaning chimneys for 60 hours a week on a zero hours contract.

 

See I know you're well meaning and I'm still just about for remain but that's exactly the sort of nonsense that tilts me the other way.  

Have you seen what they're doing to workers' rights in France?  Or Spain for that matter?  There are people waiting on their own government paying their salary from 2011 over there.  They're in the EU.  I'm not convinced the EU particularly gives a rats about us.

If the tories did what you're suggesting they'd be turfed out.  If the EU tear up a fiscal agreement with the democratically elected Portuguese or Greek government what do their people do?

And on civil liberties.who authorised the EU to complete trade deals with the US which could have an affect on the NHS? Certainly don't remember any of that mentioned at any European election.  

I'm honestly trying to make a case for it that doesn't just encompass a general  We're better together' and I feel European..which I do.  Is that it though?  With a dash of..well, the other side have more racists so I better not consider the wider argument in case I'm lumped in with them..

It's becoming a virtue signal.  I'm pro eu therefore not a racist.  It's missing the rest of the arguments. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by PapofGlencoe

[Rossy]

13 minutes ago, 86glebestreet said:

Sounds a bit like project fear 

 

4 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

See I know you're well meaning and I'm still just about for remain but that's exactly the sort of nonsense that tilts me the other way.  

Have you seen what they're doing to workers' rights in France?  Or Spain for that matter?  There are people waiting on their own government paying their salary from 2011 over there.  They're in the EU.  I'm not convinced the EU particularly gives a rats about us.

If the tories did what you're suggesting they'd be turfed out.  If the EU tear up a fiscal agreement with the democratically elected Portuguese or Greek government what do their people do?

I know, I know....I don't disagree with your comments.

I was just using (ridiculous) irony to highlight a few of the good things that the EU gives us.....such as minimum wage and maximum working hours....that I suspect the Tories would love to get rid of.

It's a pity that more of these positive points can't be highlighted by the 'Remain' campaign. I think they would resonate more with ordinary people than the threats of 'disaster for banks and big business'.

 

[phart]

9 hours ago, girvanTA said:

so are you denying that Abbot hasnt shown racist views towards white people then? What about Corbyn? There has been enough evidence to show that he was sympathetic towards the ira in the 70's.

 

What racist "views"?are you just shouting the word out? Should she take it as a compliment from you? What did she say?

I feel empathy for them as well. Riddled with security forces, being used as a pawn of the security services to destablise any relationships between the two areas, assassinating the politically savvy on both sides, arming the thugs, feeding information, letting the Omagh bomb go off to preserve a plant.

OK went to source the quotes from 1996. They're all nicely put in a website called "ISLAMVSEUROPE" who happen to hold identical views to you on this subject.

"`I am surprised that they choose to bring in blonde, blue-eyed girls from Finland, instead of nurses from the Caribbean who know the language and understand British culture and institutions.

`And are Finnish girls, who may never have met a black person before, let alone touched one, best suited to nursing in multi-cultural Hackney?'

 

[Scunnered]

Just to chime in, it wasn't the EU that delivered these workers rights that people often bring to the EU argument, it was the Labour movement and trade Unions. These things won't disappear with Brexit. 

[aaid]

23 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

See I know you're well meaning and I'm still just about for remain but that's exactly the sort of nonsense that tilts me the other way.  

Have you seen what they're doing to workers' rights in France?  Or Spain for that matter?  There are people waiting on their own government paying their salary from 2011 over there.  They're in the EU.  I'm not convinced the EU particularly gives a rats about us.

If the tories did what you're suggesting they'd be turfed out.  If the EU tear up a fiscal agreement with the democratically elected Portuguese or Greek government what do their people do?

And on civil liberties.who authorised the EU to complete trade deals with the US which could have an affect on the NHS? Certainly don't remember any of that mentioned at any European election.  

I'm honestly trying to make a case for it that doesn't just encompass a general  We're better together' and I feel European..which I do.  Is that it though?  With a dash of..well, the other side have more racists so I better not consider the wider argument in case I'm lumped in with them..

The workers rights that the EU guarantees are a minimum set of rights. A member country can supplement those rights if it so wishes.  The workers rights in many EU countries are far in excess of those minimums and in the case of France they are trying to remove some of the additional rights. 

Rossy's point is valid. Given the chance the Tories would remove a raft of workers rights. When they talk about getting rid of "Brussels red tape", that's code for removing rights to paid leave, for agency workers being treated the same as permanent employees, employment protection and the like. 

 

[girvanTA]

25 minutes ago, phart said:

What racist "views"?are you just shouting the word out? Should she take it as a compliment from you? What did she say?

I feel empathy for them as well. Riddled with security forces, being used as a pawn of the security services to destablise any relationships between the two areas, assassinating the politically savvy on both sides, arming the thugs, feeding information, letting the Omagh bomb go off to preserve a plant.

OK went to source the quotes from 1996. They're all nicely put in a website called "ISLAMVSEUROPE" who happen to hold identical views to you on this subject.

"`I am surprised that they choose to bring in blonde, blue-eyed girls from Finland, instead of nurses from the Caribbean who know the language and understand British culture and institutions.

`And are Finnish girls, who may never have met a black person before, let alone touched one, best suited to nursing in multi-cultural Hackney?'

 

I should have said racist views towards white women. No not just shouting the word out. Its fact. Check youtube and google, plenty of evidence

[ParisInAKilt]

1 hour ago, girvanTA said:

I should have said racist views towards white women. No not just shouting the word out. Its fact. Check youtube and google, plenty of evidence

[Dave78]

Why the Scottish independence movement failed, and the Brexiters will (probably) succeed:

 

 

 

[Mee]

Did the EU bring in the minimum wage? I just had a check and only 18 out of the 26 countries have one.

[aaid]

A good explanation here of how the EU impacts workers rights. 

Its from the TUC so I'm sure Scunnered will be in agreement. 

https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf

[Scunnered]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

 

Its from the TUC so I'm sure Scunnered will be in agreement. 

You'd be wrong. Although I do agree with them about the undemocratic EC and EJS neutering Trade Unions, eroding workers rights and forcing privatisation. The TUC believe the EU can be reformed... They're aff their nuts.

[aaid]

33 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

You'd be wrong. Although I do agree with them about the undemocratic EC and EJS neutering Trade Unions, eroding workers rights and forcing privatisation. The TUC believe the EU can be reformed... They're aff their nuts.

I should have remembered, you're right and everyone else is wrong. 

[derekfaejapan]

...

Edited June 3, 2016 by derekfaejapan
Can't be arsed

[Scunnered]

19 minutes ago, aaid said:

I should have remembered, you're right and everyone else is wrong. 

You're being silly now.

[scotlad]

5 hours ago, Mee said:

Did the EU bring in the minimum wage? I just had a check and only 18 out of the 26 countries have one.

That was my understanding too.  Most Nordic countries don't have a minimum wage set by central government.  They don't need one; their trade unions are strong enough to negotiate decent rates of pay for their members.

I understand people's concerns about the potential for (further) erosion of workers' rights, because I have them too (it is the main thing that has so far prevented me from leaping from the fence into the Leave camp).  At least if we left we would be in a position to democratically remove any government proposing such measures from power (well, theoretically, anyway).

Incidentally, I thought Corbyn made a good point recently when he said that an EU wide minimum wage (set at a comparable level for each country) might reduce the level of migration of low and semi-skilled workers from eastern to western Europe.

[Clyde1998]

19 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Why the Scottish independence movement failed, and the Brexiters will (probably) succeed:

 

 

 

Aye, but the media aren't fully against the idea of leaving the EU - which probably helps their case.

[weekevie04]

Wonder how Abbot feels about dark haired and eyed Finnish nurses treating black people? That quote from her is utterly preposterous - if true.

[Dave78]

28 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

Wonder how Abbot feels about dark haired and eyed Finnish nurses treating black people? That quote from her is utterly preposterous - if true.

It's an actual quote.

 

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/7th-december-1996/18/diane-abbott-finland-responds

" Almost all Finnish comments on the MP's outburst have been good-humoured. The main Finnish daily, Helsinki Sanomat, reflected the view that the country was grateful to make the news abroad at all, never mind the context. Referring to the colours of the Finnish flag, the paper commented, 'Our blue-and-white nurses crossed the British news threshold day after day. They even made it to TV and radio. Neither Finnish presidents nor even our champion racing driver Mika Hakkinen have ever managed that.' Finns are proud of their nurses and their hospitals. The country has a modern and extensive central hospital network and a well-functioning public health care system — fantastically expensive, of course, and funded by grievously high taxes. From what I hear, Ms Abbott would approve of that. A good guide for her, if she ever comes to see our nurses in their native setting, would be the current Miss Finland, Lola Odusoga, who also happens to be black. "

 

Oh, and i know the rules.....

 

 

 

[fringo]

58 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

It's an actual quote.

 

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/7th-december-1996/18/diane-abbott-finland-responds

" Almost all Finnish comments on the MP's outburst have been good-humoured. The main Finnish daily, Helsinki Sanomat, reflected the view that the country was grateful to make the news abroad at all, never mind the context. Referring to the colours of the Finnish flag, the paper commented, 'Our blue-and-white nurses crossed the British news threshold day after day. They even made it to TV and radio. Neither Finnish presidents nor even our champion racing driver Mika Hakkinen have ever managed that.' Finns are proud of their nurses and their hospitals. The country has a modern and extensive central hospital network and a well-functioning public health care system — fantastically expensive, of course, and funded by grievously high taxes. From what I hear, Ms Abbott would approve of that. A good guide for her, if she ever comes to see our nurses in their native setting, would be the current Miss Finland, Lola Odusoga, who also happens to be black. "

 

Oh, and i know the rules.....

 

 

 

No way is that Diane Abbot - even with make-up.