Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Wish I could go to sleep and someone tell me its all over. Have to give the news a miss now both sides have gone into overdrive. It just seems to be one obnoxious Tory khunt arguing against yet another obnoxious Tory khunt plus a dash of an obnoxious red Tory khunt Alastair Darling. BBC news will love this - chance to give some more air time to that fookin buffoon Boris Johnson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Starting to see a worrying trend with folk in favour of leaving,,once snp voters now seem disillusioned with their stance on the EU,,, i even know a few tories the same,,, could their be a ukip bounce after the vote stay wins out as happened when the snp lost the referendum? I really want this over with as I personally feel it is harming snp support 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IF on the off chance leave won, the establishment would simply hold another referendum and throw money at it until they got the result they wanted. See Ireland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

IF on the off chance leave won, the establishment would simply hold another referendum and throw money at it until they got the result they wanted. See Ireland.

I agree, but there probably won't be any need for another go at it. Remain will win 60%+.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't decide.  Started off 100% for remain.  Now, don't really believe in the institution of the EU parliament.  It doesn't seem very democratic to me.  What the IMF want, it gets.  Huge victories against any other way of thinking is cast aside in favour of "pragmatism".  On other hand, worried that a leave victory is a victory for the anti-immigration far right, though.  

I'm proud to be European and want us all to work together in some way.  But the way it is set up now doesn't allow for democratic choice..see Italy, Greece, Portugal and Ireland.

Also, it's inarguable that if you want Britain to make it's own laws and have it's own immigration system then that is incompatible with EU membership.  It's dishonest to suggest otherwise, it's just whether, in the grand scheme of things, it's worth doing.  Perhaps it is.  

I'm really confused about what to do but feel it's too important not to vote.  Have real empathy for those soft No and undecideds in the indy ref.

Edited by PapofGlencoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

I agree, but there probably won't be any need for another go at it. Remain will win 60%+.

Yarp!  65% for remain I reckon...  That prediction sounds familiar! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Also, it's inarguable that if you want Britain to make it's own laws and have it's own immigration system then that is incompatible with EU membership.  It's dishonest to suggest otherwise, it's just whether, in the grand scheme of things, it's worth doing.  Perhaps it is.  

The argument here isn't whether of not Britain is capable of making its own laws or setting its own immigration system within the EU, *it can't* and I don't think I've seen anyone suggest that is the case.  The Leave campaign try and conflate immigration with Controlling Our Borders probably because that sounds like a good thing to want to do especially where security is concerned and less racist.  It misses the point that as the UK isn't in Schengen we have control over the border insofar as security is concerned.

The question really is whether or not the Uk would continue to have free access to the single market outside the EU without agreeing to first of all allowing freedom of movement and secondly ensuring whatever legislation is required to operate in the single market is in force in the UK.   You'd have to agree to this and pay the EU contribution - this is what happens to Norway and Switzerland.  If none of this changes, then what does leavin the EU actually give you?

the reason for this is pretty straightforward, why would the other 27 members of the EU open up trade to someone from outside the EU who would be at a competitive advantage because they wouldn't have to adhere to the same regulations as everyone else.

As far as I can see, the main argument from the leave campaign as to why thus won't be the case is "we'll be able to secure a better deal because, err, we're Britain".  This completely misses the point that it's not about being able to get a better trade deal than Norway or Switzerland, it would be getting a better trade deal than we currently have and a better one than all the other 27 member states have.  No matter how much red wine or BMWs the UK imports, I don't see any of the other member states buying that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

Yarp!  65% for remain I reckon...  That prediction sounds familiar! :lol:

If @Flure makes a prediction, go with the opposite 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, aaid said:

It misses the point that as the UK isn't in Schengen we have control over the border insofar as security is concerned.

Thanks for the response, I genuinely want more information.  What does not being in Schengen actually mean for us?  Is it simply they have to show a passport on their way in or can Britain actually stop EU nationals from entering?  

It's not so much the borders i care about anyway.  That's well down my list of priorities.  I'd welcome more in.

I'm more interested in if there ever was a popular uprising against establishment ways of doing things, the EU looks like it will rebuke any country that wants to do things differently.  Europe has taken great strides in working conditions and in other endeavors but we're still far away to go.  As they say, when the politicians are men of our ain, you can aye pebble them wae stanes.  We'd be flinging stanes blindly to hold the EU to account.  I feel the wool has been pulled over our eyes to think the EU is a virtuous institution and progessive ideas..  I'm coming round to thinking it's a clever trojan horse to put a block national revolts against the status quo; using IMF and unaccountable leaders as the tools.  

Problem is, if remain wins, it's seen as a victory for Farage and Le Pen.  it's a shite state of affairs. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Thanks for the response, I genuinely want more information.  What does not being in Schengen actually mean for us?  Is it simply they have to show a passport on their way in or can Britain actually stop EU nationals from entering? 

 

Essentially yes, Schengen means that there are effectively no borders between countries in the Schengen area and you can travel freely without being checked at the border.  If you are from outside the EU and require a visa to visit then you have to apply for a Schengen visa.  Normally you would apply for this to the country you are going to visit first - they get very suspicious if you've applied for a Schengen visa from say Greece but fly into Brussels - but once you have that you can also travel freely within Schengen.

For Britain - I'll ignore the Irish border for the time being - *everyone* who enters the UK has to show their passport and anyone who Border Control considers "undesirable" can be refused entry.   I think the justification for turning people back who are EU citizens has to be more substantial but Border Control can - and do - turn people down.  Its not a huge amount, only a few thousand in the last few years but in reality, I doubt the number would be hugely higher if we were out the EU.

I think for example, you can turn someone back who is a threat to security but you can't turn someone back just because they have a criminal record.    So if there was someone who was suspected of being a terrorist you could turn them back but you couldn't turn back a convicted murderer just because he was a convicted murderer*

I saw mentioned recently that one of the bombers from Brussels may have visited Birmingham recently and that if "we'd have control of our borders" that would have happened.   To me that argument falls down as he was a Belgian national anyway and had we known that he was a suspected terrorist then he would have been turned back at the border in the first place.  To fully vet people in advance then you'd have to introduce a visa system so that all EU nationals would have to apply for a visa and that would no doubt be reciprocated and I doubt anyone seriously believes that's going to happen.

Finally, there is the land border that we currently share with another EU state, the Republic of Ireland.  The ROI are not in Schengen either but there is a common travel area between the UK and Ireland.  So unless we effectively build a wall between the ROI and NI or we get the ROI to enforce *our* immigration policies then we will effectively have an open border to the UK.   The leave campaign tend to hand wave a lot on this but lets not remember that even when there was a war there and the border was patrolled by troops it was still as porous as a sieve.

*I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a way of stopping someone with a serious criminal record coming in under existing regulations but the UK probably don't bother because it would cost too much.  I suspect the real problem is the lack of information sharing across the member states.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be voting to stay i reckon.

Even though I think the EU is a gargantuan mess. It might be the least damaging option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, phart said:

I'll be voting to stay i reckon.

Even though I think the EU is a gargantuan mess. It might be the least damaging option.

That's my feeling too. Least worst option. Also tempted to draw a phallus on this paper too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MacWalka said:

That's my feeling too. Least worst option. Also tempted to draw a phallus on this paper too.

Since it's a yes/no question i'll answer it. If it's multiple choice with no right answer then one can draw. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO the 'out' campaigns view that we can re-write trade agreement is the EU refernendums version of Indy's 'we can keep the pound'. Not enough people will believe it and 'IN ' winning by a fair margin. And that's after spending 2 days last week in England with customers and being genuinely surprised at the strength of the OUT campaign in that area. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will be something like 57/43 for Remain I reckon.  A lot depends on the Labour vote coming out down South, at the moment, it does not seem like Corbyn has his heart set on this, only thing that will let Leave win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

I do like how the OP is desperate for the EU Referendum to be over, chooses to ignore it on the news where possible.....and then starts a thread on TAMB about it! :lol::lol:

Fair point..but the tamb is the home of the whingers ....where the fook else can i have a good moan about things apart from facebook. If you dont have anym ates on the tamb..they cant unfriend you. I didnt start the thread to stimulate a fooking discussion on the pros and cons of europe either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, irnbruman said:

Fair point..but the tamb is the home of the whingers ....where the fook else can i have a good moan about things apart from facebook. If you dont have anym ates on the tamb..they cant unfriend you. I didnt start the thread to stimulate a fooking discussion on the pros and cons of europe either.

I thought I was your mate :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Scunnered said:

I thought I was your mate :(

Ffs george ..im trying to cultivate an image of a grumpy moaning faced old b astard with no mates and you go and spoil it . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reckon the overall UK vote will be narrowly for leaving, but in Scotland it will be something like 2-1 in favour of remain, and in fact that might be enough to swing the overall UK vote towards remain if it's really close down south.  Interesting what would happen then...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Alibi said:

I reckon the overall UK vote will be narrowly for leaving, but in Scotland it will be something like 2-1 in favour of remain, and in fact that might be enough to swing the overall UK vote towards remain if it's really close down south.  Interesting what would happen then...

We would just stay in the EU. Job done for Dodgy Dave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

We would just stay in the EU. Job done for Dodgy Dave.

That would be what Dave would say - that it was a UK-wide vote - but that's when the fun would start.  English voters would be up in arms at being kept in the EU against their wishes.  Which of us would be first to say "But I thought you said we were better together".  Massive seethe down south.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Alibi said:

That would be what Dave would say - that it was a UK-wide vote - but that's when the fun would start.  English voters would be up in arms at being kept in the EU against their wishes.  Which of us would be first to say "But I thought you said we were better together".  Massive seethe down south.

Or they might accept the result, move on & not blame everyone & everything else for their own failings :ok:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...