Ally Bongo Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 38 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Second Independence referendum before march 2019, I reckon. It will be next year at this rate May saying that we will not be in the single market more or less today is a whole new ball game It will be interesting how the markets react this week and the response by big business/the city Although she denies it - It is likely that she will go for a snap general election She wont give Parliament straight answers but announces that at the Tory conference ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 6 minutes ago, stocky said: not in Scotland. in case you missed it 62% Remain That was 62% to stay in Europe, i dont consider that losing.. Aye, calm down. The UK PM is respecting the vote. Eff all wrong with that. If there is to be another Scottish referendum that's fine. I would suggest that the party that asks for it had won a mandate at an election with that as a policy otherwise there will be complications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 6 minutes ago, stocky said: not in Scotland. in case you missed it 62% Remain That was 62% to stay in Europe, i dont consider that losing.. Doesn't matter, the UK voted to leave and Scotland voted to be part of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Just now, andymac said: If there is to be another Scottish referendum that's fine. I would suggest that the party that asks for it had won a mandate at an election with that as a policy otherwise there will be complications. It did "The Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum...if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: It did "The Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum...if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.’ Which is fair enough if in the manifesto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, andymac said: Which is fair enough if in the manifesto. It was THE SNP’s Holyrood manifesto will not commit the party to holding a second referendum in the next parliament, Nicola Sturgeon confirms today. Instead, the document, published on Wednesday, will say the SNP believes the “Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option” of most Scots - or if there is a “material change in the circumstances” since 2014, such as Brexit against Scotland’s wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: It was THE SNP’s Holyrood manifesto will not commit the party to holding a second referendum in the next parliament, Nicola Sturgeon confirms today. Instead, the document, published on Wednesday, will say the SNP believes the “Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option” of most Scots - or if there is a “material change in the circumstances” since 2014, such as Brexit against Scotland’s wishes. I an not arguing with you, I am agreeing with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 The established position seemed to be that the EU discouraged secession, and so make it difficult ('if not impossible') for bits of countries to break away then be admitted re-entry. But surely Brexit changes that. Surely post-Brexit they could now be more concerned at countries leaving, and could swing to punish countries attempting to leave, by allowing bits of those countries to rejoin? Time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 The shit is going to hit the fan - the only question is to whether thats pre or post article 50 Id like to think that at some point around the markets going cuckoo the EU will announce that an Independent Scotland will be guaranteed EU entry The Scottish Government's proviso at that point should be to lobby for some changes - an example being the EU tendering laws You would think at that point with the Brexit turmoil the EU would bite your hand off for an oil rich entrant and be amicable Wishful thinking - probably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 2 hours ago, andymac said: I an not arguing with you, I am agreeing with you. Well, stop agreeing, it's not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Was quite interesting hearing David Mundell being ragdolled over this by Gary Robertson this morning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Was quite interesting hearing David Mundell being ragdolled over this by Gary Robertson this morning... They'd have been better off appointing an English MP as Scottish Secretary. Mundell's an idiot. Always looks like a frightened rabbit during every Scottish Questions at Westminster. His answer to every single question is "the SNP are a bunch of bastards". Completely out of his depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: They'd have been better off appointing an English MP as Scottish Secretary. They'd have been better employing no-one, post devolution, the post of SoS for Scotland is redundant. SG ministers and officials generally deal directly with their Westminster counterparts. You get the impression that Fluffy only gets invited along to get the coffees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 26 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: They'd have been better off appointing an English MP as Scottish Secretary. Mundell's an idiot. Always looks like a frightened rabbit during every Scottish Questions at Westminster. His answer to every single question is "the SNP are a bunch of bastards". Completely out of his depth. I was at a business event last week at which Foodbank Fluffy arrived. I had a clear chance to boot him in the knackers as he walked past me. I resisted the opportunity, but he really is a thoroughly dislikeable wee nyaff. like a sort of grown up teacher's pet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 15 minutes ago, Alibi said: I was at a business event last week at which Foodbank Fluffy arrived. I had a clear chance to boot him in the knackers as he walked past me. I resisted the opportunity, but he really is a thoroughly dislikeable wee nyaff. like a sort of grown up teacher's pet. He really does come across as a complete wee sook, doesn't he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 And here was me believing that nationalists could be believed when they said they would respect the 2014 vote as it was a once in a generation event.... Another referendum will be lost by nationalists if held in next few years. Economic argument is even worse, they need to face up to the lies of white paper so more doubt is in. The EU question is really not that big on peoples minds (look at turnout for example) and they need to explain why giving up power to Brussels including immigration will go down with the public. When I was canvassing for better together I was uncomfortable how often immigration came up with Yes and No def 50/50 split. Also Sturgeon has peaked. It will be slow downturn and she's still massively popular with her base but how many issues are "top priority" with little impact? The minutiae of government bogs people down. Instead of trying for best deal for Scotland outside EU she's showing all her cards. Very weak negotiating position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Alan said: And here was me believing that nationalists could be believed when they said they would respect the 2014 vote as it was a once in a generation event.... Another referendum will be lost by nationalists if held in next few years. Economic argument is even worse, they need to face up to the lies of white paper so more doubt is in. The EU question is really not that big on peoples minds (look at turnout for example) and they need to explain why giving up power to Brussels including immigration will go down with the public. When I was canvassing for better together I was uncomfortable how often immigration came up with Yes and No def 50/50 split. Also Sturgeon has peaked. It will be slow downturn and she's still massively popular with her base but how many issues are "top priority" with little impact? The minutiae of government bogs people down. Instead of trying for best deal for Scotland outside EU she's showing all her cards. Very weak negotiating position. YAWN... The result has been respected, we are still in the British Union, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 27 minutes ago, Alan said: And here was me believing that nationalists could be believed when they said they would respect the 2014 vote as it was a once in a generation event.... Another referendum will be lost by nationalists if held in next few years. Economic argument is even worse, they need to face up to the lies of white paper so more doubt is in. The EU question is really not that big on peoples minds (look at turnout for example) and they need to explain why giving up power to Brussels including immigration will go down with the public. When I was canvassing for better together I was uncomfortable how often immigration came up with Yes and No def 50/50 split. Also Sturgeon has peaked. It will be slow downturn and she's still massively popular with her base but how many issues are "top priority" with little impact? The minutiae of government bogs people down. Instead of trying for best deal for Scotland outside EU she's showing all her cards. Very weak negotiating position. You can almost hear the last gasps of the Union in Alan's words ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 20 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: Doesn't matter, the UK voted to leave and Scotland voted to be part of the UK. Don't let facts get in the way of a "woe is us" session Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Can you imagine the furore if Nicola Sturgeon called the English thieves ? Ruth Davidson says that about Scots and not a peep on MSM They are really doing their best to make her the media darling and giving her such an easy ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Can you imagine the furore if Nicola Sturgeon called the English thieves ? Ruth Davidson says that about Scots and not a peep on MSM They are really doing their best to make her the media darling and giving her such an easy ride Sounds like they have already decided that she is going to lead the NO campaign next time round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Sounds like they have already decided that she is going to lead the NO campaign next time round. Yes Campaign 2 v Tories is good Edited October 3, 2016 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: Yes Campaign 2 v Tories is good Scottish politics will be SNP v Tories for a while yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 8 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: Yes Campaign 2 v Tories is good I doubt it. Scottish politics is completely polarised. Any hardened Unionist who happens to be a Labour voter will simply follow the Tories. The Tories could inflict any humiliation or whatever on Scotland. The 50% of the population who are anti- self determination will simply nod their heads and whine about the SNP a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Rossy said: I doubt it. Scottish politics is completely polarised. Any hardened Unionist who happens to be a Labour voter will simply follow the Tories. The Tories could inflict any humiliation or whatever on Scotland. The 50% of the population who are anti- self determination will simply nod their heads and whine about the SNP a bit more. Indeed, I've come across a few Labourite No people who've been enthusing about Ruth and Theresa. Mainly because they are the Anti-Sturgeons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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