Auld_Reekie Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Latest polling figures incredible. Even with the Forth Road Bridge crisis, the SNP are absolutely solid and Labour continue to bomb. Im pretty scathing of the opposition and the media in this country but assumed I was very biased and vastly over-estimated just how sympathetically the electorate looked at the SNP. If anything, the electorate seem more sympathetic to the SNP than I am which is staggering. Opposition parties and the media are f***ed. Proper f***ed. They'll hang in there though hoping May won't quite be as bad as polls predict, and clutch at any straw when it's marginally better than forecast. But really, they must surely see that they are completely at odds with the electorate. On the one hand, I want to see the opposition and the media continue to be hammered for as long as takes for them to get the hint, but on the other, I dont honestly think this situation is that great for Scotland. Conflicted. Why I try and reconcile this conundrum Im going to point and laugh at the Scottish media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Still waiting for this big "Corbyn bounce" we've been told will capture Scottish hearts and restore Scottish Labour to power. I'm not seeing or hearing it. Mind you, we in the SNP still have plenty of campaigning to do and propaganda to combat. The Record will back Labour to doomsday. The Herald will sit on the fence for as long as Magnus Llewellin is editor but I think The Scotsman will take a risk and endorse the Scottish Conservatives. Tim Farron and Wullie Rennie have promised us a "Lib Dem fightback". Oooohhh scary ! Good luck to Leanne Wood and Plaid Cymru in Wales too ! Hope Adam Price on his return to politics will win the Carmarthen East and Dinefwr seat for them, he's a great intellect, fierce campaigner and good friend of Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Willie Rennie is surely 5 months from the boot and I previously thought Dugdale could see it through this election, but she's compltely failing to stop any rot. Tories have done nothing but treaded water while Labour continue to sink. One of them surely has to break ranks and propose something radical. I mean, those figures are f***ing appalling for every party from the SNP and maybe the Greens, although I hoped they'd so slightly better (may improve once they get their list campaign going). Im an SNP member and voter but this is p*** for Scotland IMO. We're stuck in a middle ground where one party in untouchable but unwilling to be overly radical and the media and the opposition are barely credible. I find it utterly depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Obviously a great time to be alive. Amazed at the zero if not negative affect of Corbyn. It is almost like the Scottish electorate have a problem taking him seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Obviously a great time to be alive. Amazed at the zero if not negative affect of Corbyn. It is almost like the Scottish electorate have a problem taking him seriously. I dont think it's Corbyn. I think the Scottish electorate have stopped reacting to UK-level Labour, if not UK-level politics. They've just not realised that means they should probably have just voted Yes and saved us all the interim 10 years before the next referendum. Im not sure there's anybody UK Labour could have put forward that would have reversed their fortunes in Scotland, save from maybe Gordon Brown, but even then the UK establishment would have self-combusted and the universe would have collapsed in on itself. What is there in UK politics right now that would motivate anyone in Scotland?! There's absolutely nothing. It hasn't quite registered with me until now just how disconnected Westminster has become from Scotland. And this is a Scottish poll. Scottish Labour, Scottish Tories, Scottish LibDems - completely irrelevant to an increasing majority of Scottish electorate. I cant believe the Forth Road Bridge crisis hasn't even made a scratch on the SNP polling numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I cant believe the Forth Road Bridge crisis hasn't even made a scratch on the SNP polling numbers. Problem is that if/when there is something to genuinely have a go about - and I don't the the Forth Road Bridge is that - people basically look at a combination of the incessant SNP Bad mantra from SLab combined with the belief that it would be 10 times worse under Labour and think aye, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Left v right is politically irrelevant right now. The massive battle that is taking place and upon whose side you will have to decide you are on is what is loosely called: Zionism v Free World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I don't think Scottish Labour will recover until they embrace independence and there are plenty Labour folk who would quite happily go along with that. It is their only chance. Nothing else can save them. They just need some leadership who are brave enough to drag them down that route.They need to get rid of a lot of dead wood fukwits first though. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tories get more votes than Labour next May. There are a lot more Tories in Scotland than most folk realise. Whether they will bother to get out and vote, like they did in the referendum, is a different matter though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 I dont even think independence can save them now. They'd just look desperate and we'd all laugh. I mean, would you suddenly start voting for them because they suddenly supported independence? I certainly wouldn't and I doubt anyone else would either. They're incompetent. They're also too closely aligned with the media and it's clear public trust in the media is at an all time low, so even if and when they wanted to make a serious point, nobody takes them seriously. Meanwhile, the media are too busy continuing to crack one off over the referendum and sneering at any and all SNP/Yes supporters, while wondering why people are still supporting the SNP and their industry is dying on it's arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Aye, I'm not sure it would work but it is their only chance. I think they will muddle through to the election and get trounced. Possibly getting overtaken by the Tories? They will then need to look for new leadership. That new leadership would need to be leftish and independence minded. They would need to be brave enough to force a split in the party and get rid of the old fashioned unionists. I also think our best chance of another referendum is if Labour starts to back independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 They will then need to look for new leadership. That new leadership would need to be leftish and independence minded. Neil Findlay? Seems to be Corbyn's man in Scotland... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 If Twitter is anything to go by, Findlay is off the rails these days. Used to think he was no bad, but seems to be another who's got angrier and more mental since "winning" referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 There are two factors that really define the independence debate. The prospect of a Brexit will in my view make independence 100% reality. It will just be a matter of timing when the SNP go for it. The second matter is increased fiscal powers for Holyrood. The Scottish Govt popularity and economic competence will be tested more under this and unpopular decisions will have to be made. As for the Forth Rd bridge then in the main those affected by it are in areas that where solid No so no real impact on the Independence debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If you dig into the poll figures there is a large number in the undecided / refused categories. Some care has to be taken with the headline figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Nationalism. Pure and simple. Kills debate. SNP domestic record is poor. Sturgeon could punch a kitten and still be applauded. Nationalism. Utterly depressing in every country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stapes Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If Twitter is anything to go by, Findlay is off the rails these days. Used to think he was no bad, but seems to be another who's got angrier and more mental since "winning" referendum. Saw him speak a couple of times during the referendum and always felt there was a YES voter inside him trying to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) Nationalism. Pure and simple. Kills debate. SNP domestic record is poor. Sturgeon could punch a kitten and still be applauded. Nationalism. Utterly depressing in every country. SNPBad, stupid brainwashed electorate.................Unionist Brit Nat Bingo! Edited December 22, 2015 by Lamia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The only thing that has killed debate is the Tories getting wiped out in Scotland for acting like the utter whanks that they are. Then Labour and the Liberals suffered the exact same fate for being the utter whanks that they are. You've got one pitiful MP each. It is laughable. (Ha ha ha. See.) It is pretty hard to have a serious debate with three people. You can hardly blame the SNP for the fact that the people of Scotland would rather vote for them en masse than the tories or new labour. What 'killed debate' in Scotland is you being really shit. And then lots of folk not voting for you. But I suppose killing debate is still lot better than orphans eh Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) If Twitter is anything to go by, Findlay is off the rails these days. Used to think he was no bad, but seems to be another who's got angrier and more mental since "winning" referendum. Neil is an excellent politician, one of the best in Scotland, but he needs to reel it in. He got into a tiff the other day with Humza Yousaf, Neil made a valid and very good point, Humza replied with a nonsense answer that made absolutely no sense which Humza's followers then seized upon and started using to taunt Neil, rather than going straight for Humza's pish he got involved with the tits who were taunting him first which then diluted his retort to Humza when he got round to it, which is a shame as it was a doozy and showed the blatant hypocrisy of his 'opponent'. Edited December 22, 2015 by Scunnered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 SNPBad, stupid brainwashed electorate.................Unionist Brit Nat Bingo! British nationalism good. French nationalism good. Norwegian nationalism good. Scottish nationalism...dangerous, evil, very bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The "SNPBad" is atrocious patter. SNP will have been in power for 9 years. Governments need to be held to account but the membership bow down to centralised control. MSP's sign a contract never to criticise the government. When was the last backbench rebellion? When was the last big radical policy? Sturgeon as Deputy or First Minister all that time. Education falling standards. Health less % increase than coalition in Westminster. Named Person scheme. Police Scotland. Infrastructure. *tumbleweed*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The "SNPBad" is atrocious patter. We've been telling you that for years. If you occasionally threw in a balanced remark or gave the SNP credit for some things folk might actually take some of your points seriously but as it is it just washes over because it is just Alan being Alan. "Snpbaaaaaaaad (repeat until death)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Obviously a great time to be alive. Amazed at the zero if not negative affect of Corbyn. It is almost like the Scottish electorate have a problem taking him seriously. Scottish Labour are poison, even amongst a portion of their Scottish membership. They'll get my list vote as a good friend and Campaign for Socialism member is on the list, but I'm 90% certain at the moment they won't get my constituency vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) Scottish Labour are poison, even amongst a portion of their Scottish membership. They'll get my list vote as a good friend and Campaign for Socialism member is on the list, but I'm 90% certain at the moment they won't get my constituency vote. If Corbyn started to take on the Neoconservative Party (and the same elements within his own party) and actually stand for what he believes in he could attract a lot of support from the electorate. edit: the public crucifixion of Corbyn (or JC) might be his purpose here... Edited December 22, 2015 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If Corbyn started to take on the Neoconservative Party (and the same elements within his own party) and actually stand for what he believes in he could attract a lot of support from the electorate. edit: the public crucifixion of Corbyn (or JC) might be his purpose here... I'd suggest you're not paying attention. He is attracting a lot of support from the electorate, just not in Scotland which as Alan has pointed out is currently lost to Nationalism, whether for the better or worse, remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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