giblet Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I notice already that reporters on media outlets like BBc 5Live are tripping over themselves to give both sides a fair crack of the whip. I'm starting to realise that their bias during the referendum campaign was mostly based on casual, detached ignorance of the issues. With both EU referendum campaigns being orchestrated out of London, expect much more balanced coverage from the BBC etc. was just thinking the same thing. It will be interesting to watch this progress. I'm in, but knowing I'm voting with a whole plethora of political enemies isnt nice. Hoping to see Ruk vote No, whilst we vote In, triggering an early indyref2 so we can get out of the UK pronto. Edited October 12, 2015 by giblet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Daily Mail pointing out the "scaremongering" the IN camp are coming out with. They even make reference to the Indy referendum and quote "project fear". Although a key part of this at the time, the Mail now seem to be distancing itself from any compliance with Project Fear and are appalled at the use of these tactics in the EU referendum. That would seem about right......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitre Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Out for me If this (albeit unlikely) happens, we should get back to the three foreigner rule in football. Might help Scottish kids in the game get more pitch time as opposed to flooding teams with journeymen foreigners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDange Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I want England to vote to leave and us to vote to stay in. Then we can get our 2nd referendum and gtf out of this damned union. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Out for me If this (albeit unlikely) happens, we should get back to the three foreigner rule in football. Might help Scottish kids in the game get more pitch time as opposed to flooding teams with journeymen foreigners. I don't think we'd have to worry about Bosman either?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 In for me, but a softer In than in the last few years. The EU in principle is a necessity, but maybe it's getting too big. Although to be quite honest, it's not overly important to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Oot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitre Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I don't think we'd have to worry about Bosman either?... absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckielugger Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 It is difficult. Voting to stay in means siding with Cameron and all the establishment and I couldn't do that. Equally voting to leave means being on the same side as UKIP and all the English nutters and going against the SNP's current position. Problem is the whole premise we will be asked to vote on is fundamentally flawed. To either stick with an overgrown capitalist superstate or support a return of a Imperial Great Britain as desired by Farage and his ilk. NOT on offer is the self determination of not just Scotland but a whole new Europe with many peoples taking control of their own affairs across the continent, such as the Basques and Catalans and Bretons and Corsicans etc etc, with the old imperial states finally withering away. The independence vote in Catalonia is one step in the right direction, Scotland should have taken its step last year...maybe a vote to leave might just be the catalyst to allow for a decisive change in the UK state and lead to Scottish Independence so if that is the possibility then I might just vote to leave.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Out The EU in principle could be a good thing but it's rules by Neo liberal bastards and will never change. Those saying they'll vote in should read more into TTIP, especially if you voted yes in the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 A poll on the board for this subject would be interesting, theres more people wanting to leave on here than i though there would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 While previously I would have been yes to stay in I am much more inclined towards out, because of TTIP and a number of other issues. Just hate being on same "side" as Farrage though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWalka Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 While previously I would have been yes to stay in I am much more inclined towards out, because of TTIP and a number of other issues. Just hate being on same "side" as Farrage though.. My thoughts too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddersfield Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 While previously I would have been yes to stay in I am much more inclined towards out, because of TTIP and a number of other issues. Just hate being on same "side" as Farrage though.. You aren't though. Clearly this type of referendum is 'binary'. You can only choose in or out; not in if this or that happens; otherwise out. But there are as many perspectives on why you might choose one or the other as there are voters. Farage's 'side' starts from a reactionary perspective & thinks that we need to to stop Johnny Foreigner opening a mosque in Chipping Sodbury so let's get out. Radical left thinkers may think that we need to get out to protect the NHS from being sold to US Health Inc., or to allow re-nationalisation of the railways, etc., so reaches the same end point but by a philosophically completely different route. Long term though the problem that we still end up with is who is running the show once the decision is made. So a left-wing voter opts for 'no', but a Cameron-esque Government uses that to start a programme (for example) of banning Islamic dress, reducing employment rights or other reactionary legislation freed from the shackles of European law. But Farage's crew could find their no vote opens the door to a Corbyn-led programme of increasing state intervention & closing down of pro-competition laws. Whatever happens is a 2-edged sword, so for what it's worth I have taken what I think is (for me personally) the one that offers the most likely route to the kind of society I want to see whilst accepting the likelihood of me ever seeing it probably isn't great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Hudd, yes I realise that it aint binary and as you allude that is the problem - which the question essentially is. I want a free Scotland (free from Cameron-esque policies as well) to be able to decide its proper place in the world. (and yes I'll probably be deid by then..). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddersfield Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Hudd, yes I realise that it aint binary and as you allude that is the problem - which the question essentially is. I want a free Scotland (free from Cameron-esque policies as well) to be able to decide its proper place in the world. (and yes I'll probably be deid by then..). The Scottish independence angle is a really interesting one (speaking obviously as an onlooker). I'll be honest I've done enough political gymnastics over the years to get somewhere near what I think is right with reagrds to in/out & heaven knows where I'd get to if I had to add that in the mix. For me, yes = guaranteed slide towards a society ruled by the needs of competition & large corporations, trumping (perhaps that should have a capital T) the wishes of domestic populations No = a vague chance that might not happen but probably the same outcome. I might be being totally naive here, so forgive me if this is total rubbish but I sense that there is a certain inevitability about an eventual break-up of the UK (granted I ain't committing to either or neither of us being alive but I suspect we might be). I think that outcome probably won't be massively affected by the EU referendum (whichever way it goes) but probably far more likely by reactionary domestic politics that are creating a kind of political entropy amongst those most distanced from the ruling doctrines & groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Stay in for me. The pluses outweigh the negatives for me. Easy travel, good (free) trade with our biggest market, rules like the working time directive, Human Rights Act, free competition and transparency in public procurement. Personally it's a power thing. The U.K. elite miffed that they bought a UK government, now pesky EU is interfering. Neglecting the fact that as an island of service traders we need the free market. TTIP is terrible, but I'm sure this government would sign up unilaterally if it could. Our best chance of defeating it is through the EU. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 DEFINITELY voting out What about this in Portugal ? https://archive.is/GhzQf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 DEFINITELY voting out What about this in Portugal ? https://archive.is/GhzQf on firsf reading that is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Scary stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I am minded to vote to stay in but my confidence in the EU has taken a big knock after seeing how they have treated Greece. One thing I am totally opposed to is the idea of one day creating a "United States of Europe". Question for the TAMB folk in England and Wales - what's the mood like at your work or down the pub just now ? Has Euroscepticism stalled or is it growing again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddersfield Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I am minded to vote to stay in but my confidence in the EU has taken a big knock after seeing how they have treated Greece. One thing I am totally opposed to is the idea of one day creating a "United States of Europe". Question for the TAMB folk in England and Wales - what's the mood like at your work or down the pub just now ? Has Euroscepticism stalled or is it growing again ? If I'm completely honest I'd say there seems to be a total ambivalence around here. I've had the odd conversation at work & most waant to stay in (but no clear evidence of people being well informed). I'm embedded in a family of Labour Party members, councillors & activists and I'm probably the only 'out' amongst us but it's not figuring high on anybody's radar at the moment. Interestingly the off topic bit of the Hudds. Town message board has a 19 page thread about Corbyn, lengthy threads on immigration & the usual guff, but nothing at all about this. I daresay nearerthe time it will. If I was to guess I'd say Eurosceptisism maybe has a tendency to reduce the further North you go but that's guesswork not fact! I'd be interested to know what others think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watsoniansfan Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Out, out, out! Brussels is a bureaucratic nightmare, Euro membership has wrought economic devastation all over southern Europe, and then there's the explicit desire for "ever closer union", with all that implies for sovereignty. The EU is the devil. What really grinds my gears is that some in the IN camp think the only possible explanation for being opposed to the EU is a hatred of foreigners. It shouldn't be taboo to be opposed to membership of an international organization. The Swiss and the Norwegians don't seem to have any inclination to join the EU, but the cosmopolitan internationalists don't seem to have a problem with that. It's only when their compatriots quietly suggest that EU membership isn't really something we want that they see a chance to put the boot in. These people are either dishonest or idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 What really grinds my gears is that some in the IN camp think the only possible explanation for being opposed to the EU is a hatred of foreigners. One of them posts here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 If I'm completely honest I'd say there seems to be a total ambivalence around here. I've had the odd conversation at work & most waant to stay in (but no clear evidence of people being well informed). I'm embedded in a family of Labour Party members, councillors & activists and I'm probably the only 'out' amongst us but it's not figuring high on anybody's radar at the moment. Interestingly the off topic bit of the Hudds. Town message board has a 19 page thread about Corbyn, lengthy threads on immigration & the usual guff, but nothing at all about this. I daresay nearerthe time it will. If I was to guess I'd say Eurosceptisism maybe has a tendency to reduce the further North you go but that's guesswork not fact! I'd be interested to know what others think. Interesting as always Huddersfield As you suggest, people will probably start talking and thinking about the issue once the campaigns really get steam up. Who are the more notable euro-sceptics in the Labour Party ? The only ones I know about are John Cryer, Kate Hoey and Kelvin Hopkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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