davew Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Got any stats on his attitude or lack of professionalism? I don't know what point you're making. I never said stats paint a complete picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Jeezo davew. Calm down lad Wont be long until he is playing in a top league. I take it by your theory Andy Carroll is a top striker then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 You said the stats proved he is a great passer so would become a Scotland fixture. So your friend is suggesting there is more to it than that, and that other factors might inhibit him. Seems fair comment. I hope you are right though, as natural ability to keep the ball is a cracking potential asset. Again though, other things like fitness, ego, temperament, workrate, teamwork, etc come into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Steven Fletcher must be especially glad to get away with Scotland shortly. He posted a pic of his new £260,000 Lamborghini on Twitter which made the Sunderland fans go fecking mental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannannan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Steven Fletcher must be especially glad to get away with Scotland shortly. He posted a pic of his new £260,000 Lamborghini on Twitter which made the Sunderland fans go fecking mental sounds like an og.oh well at least a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 If only they seen his link up play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noctonjock Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 You really think Craig Gordon is a lesser keeper than McGregor?I wouldn, t use the word lesser I just think Mcgregor is a safer bet due to Gordon being out the game a long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I wouldn, t use the word lesser I just think Mcgregor is a safer bet due to Gordon being out the game a long time Gordon has played nearly 20 more games than McGregor this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noctonjock Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Gordon has played nearly 20 more games than McGregor this season.he has I agree but Mcgregor has probably had a lot more to do in his games though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 he has I agree but Mcgregor has probably had a lot more to do in his games though Definitely in the league. Inter at home aside, Gordon was excellent in Europe and the difference in a couple of games. Tough call for Strachan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 he has I agree but Mcgregor has probably had a lot more to do in his games though Have you seen Sellic this season ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'd go with Gordon, he's a steadier head and his confidence seems to rub off on the players around him. That's what puts him ahead of McGregor for me. Marshall, I still have reservations about. He does silly things to make a point to the players around him which have almost cost us a couple of times, and so I don't really trust him. He kept throwing it out to the left back in one of the qualifiers, trying ot get him to carry it forward a bit, but because he wanted to make a point he did it at the wrong time, dropped the left back in it and he then lost the ball and the opposition had a quick counter they almost scored from. It was straight up foolish my Marshall, totally unnecessary and almost cost us. Decent keeper, no doubt, but i don't trust him as much as the other two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Re: Gauld.... sporting have tweeted that he missed this weekends games due to suspension after picking up 5 yellow cards (they must be card happy out there as sure that's the 2nd time this season he has been suspended due to this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Also according to stats Jordon Rhodes is in the top 10 strikers in europe That's a perfect illustration about how easily stats can be misinterpreted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I know, its funny how stats can make a few players seem better than they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davew Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) That's a perfect illustration about how easily stats can be misinterpreted. I know you have a distrust of statistics, but I don't know why. I would say it's a perfect illustration of how not applying common sense can lead to a misinterpretation. Even the most basic common sense would tell you that Jordan Rhodes can't be compared to Lionel Messi, so if any "statistic" puts the two together then it's obviously not an accurate interpretation. Edited March 24, 2015 by davew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagtag Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Wont be long until he is playing in a top league. I hope you're right but if there is one criticism of Rhodes it's his serious lack of pace. if he had a couple of extra yards of pace then he would be world class but he is actually very slow. He is quick in thought and reactions to anything around him But in a foot race over 10 yards he very rarely comes out on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 McGhee in the press today and hinting that Rhodes may be starting tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I know you have a distrust of statistics, but I don't know why. I would say it's a perfect illustration of how not applying common sense can lead to a misinterpretation. Even the most basic common sense would tell you that Jordan Rhodes can't be compared to Lionel Messi, so if any "statistic" puts the two together then it's obviously not an accurate interpretation. It's not a mistrust of statistics, but you seem to put some form of religious faith in them, hence claiming that Kevin McDonald would be called up to a squad soon purely on the basis of some stats that can be interpreted as him being the best passer in the English Championship when you admit you really haven't seen him play for Wolves. Opta stats - or whatever - are useful but they do not tell you the full story. Thankfully football is not a game solely of set play rehearsed moved like Baseball, American Football or Basketball. While I know that teams will practice set moves and organisation, it is largely a game of improvisation. I think there are legions of people trying to work out how you can apply Moneyball to football - I know I did when I read it - but I'm not convinced you can. Personally, I use statistics - if football, as in all aspects of life - as a way of either supporting your own opinion and assumptions if the figures support that or in challenging them and forcing you to rethink if it doesn't. For example. I believe that Player X* is not a particularly effective** player, especially when playing at a high level. My assumption is that while individual managers will favour players, they will generally play their most effective players most of the time. For me two statistics back this up. Firstly a poor appearance record of about 20 appearances a season across an extended period of time with no major injury problems and secondly the the fact that the majority of those appearances have not been playing the full 90. *Barry Bannan ** effective does not necessarily mean most naturally talented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I know, its funny how stats can make a few players seem better than they areAgreed. Anthony Stokes has something like 12 assists this season, so based on that and highlights it makes him look like a top player. But most Celtic fans that have watched him regularly this year want him out the team. Never performs in big games and can't play without a partner. Sorry to use a non-Scot as an example, but it proves the point. You also have to take into account the teams they play for. Martin wouldn't score as many goals if he wasn't playing for Derby, likewise May would score more if he wasn't playing for Sheffield Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blantyre_Braveheart Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Agreed. Anthony Stokes has something like 12 assists this season, so based on that and highlights it makes him look like a top player. But most Celtic fans that have watched him regularly this year want him out the team. Never performs in big games and can't play without a partner. Sorry to use a non-Scot as an example, but it proves the point. You also have to take into account the teams they play for. Martin wouldn't score as many goals if he wasn't playing for Derby, likewise May would score more if he wasn't playing for Sheffield Wednesday. Considering how much derby have struggled since Martin has been injured, you have to wonder if he's better than some say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davew Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 It's not a mistrust of statistics, but you seem to put some form of religious faith in them, hence claiming that Kevin McDonald would be called up to a squad soon purely on the basis of some stats that can be interpreted as him being the best passer in the English Championship when you admit you really haven't seen him play for Wolves. I'm not sure why you think the difference between us is "religious faith". I'm using statistics to back up my own opinion which is that McDonald is good enough, and still young enough to have a Scotland career. I've not seem him play recently, but the fact that Strachan called him up recently also backs up my opinion. Opta stats - or whatever - are useful but they do not tell you the full story. Thankfully football is not a game solely of set play rehearsed moved like Baseball, American Football or Basketball. While I know that teams will practice set moves and organisation, it is largely a game of improvisation. I think there are legions of people trying to work out how you can apply Moneyball to football - I know I did when I read it - but I'm not convinced you can. Personally, I use statistics - if football, as in all aspects of life - as a way of either supporting your own opinion and assumptions if the figures support that or in challenging them and forcing you to rethink if it doesn't. I agree with all of that. I'd never heard of moneyball, but it's a good comparison. From reading the wiki article, the gist of it seems to be that baseball stats were being misinterpreted, so they tried to come up with a better interpretation. For example. I believe that Player X* is not a particularly effective** player, especially when playing at a high level. My assumption is that while individual managers will favour players, they will generally play their most effective players most of the time. For me two statistics back this up. Firstly a poor appearance record of about 20 appearances a season across an extended period of time with no major injury problems and secondly the the fact that the majority of those appearances have not been playing the full 90. *Barry Bannan ** effective does not necessarily mean most naturally talented I agree with this aswell. Although I think most managers in the bottom half of the EPL (and also the Championship) are strongly biased in favour of big, strong players. So Bannan not getting picked doesn't necessarily mean he's in-effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I agree with this aswell. Although I think most managers in the bottom half of the EPL (and also the Championship) are strongly biased in favour of big, strong players. So Bannan not getting picked doesn't necessarily mean he's in-effective. It kind of does, in that he's not physically strong enough to compete in that league nor does he have the requisite level of talent to be able to counter that shortcoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 It kind of does, in that he's not physically strong enough to compete in that league nor does he have the requisite level of talent to be able to counter that shortcoming. He competed just fine physically with the notoriously physical Germans in Dortmund so I don't buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 He competed just fine physically with the notoriously physical Germans in Dortmund so I don't buy it. Notoriously physical Germans - maybe 40 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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