Gaza

[exile]

The Gaza situation seems to deserve a thread of its own.

Terrified families flee Rafah as Israel set to open all-out assault - Observer

 Israeli forces ‘carpet bombing’ Jabalia - Al Jazeera (feed)

People in Rafah essentially moving into rubble [UN official] BBC (feed, 11:10)

UK ban on selling arms to Israel would strengthen Hamas, says Cameron - BBC

 

[exile]

Gary Linekar's take

 

Edited May 12, 2024 by exile

[Big Ramy 1314]

42 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I said right at the start, that long ago Aaid was still posting, that the October attacks by Hamas was the excuse the Israelis wanted to end the existance of Palestine

In the last 60 years there have been umpteen attempts at solutions that have all failed miserably

Israel realised a while back that it was all fruitless and that there were always going to be extremists in Palestine that will never ever accept Israel being there

As a result they decided not to give a fuck anymore, make large parts of Palestine a concentration camp and increase Israeli settlements until eventually this time would come.

Everything else is a distraction

The irony of course is this almost exactly follows the path that the Nazi's took against the Jews after Barbarossa 

 

Great post... On top of that, you may aswell add Biden as a supporter of genocide... I make bracelets, and I wear one every day with the Palestinian colors. God Bless all the innocent men, woman, and children of Palestine who have been slaughtered by these murdering bastards !!!!

[TDYER63]

Non elected randomer representing the UK at highest level afraid to upset Israel. Again. 

https://www.google.com/amp/story/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/israeli-arms-embargo-not-wise-with-us-and-uk-in-totally-different-situations-says-cameron-13134208

[Hertsscot]

6 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Non elected randomer representing the UK at highest level afraid to upset Israel. Again. 

https://www.google.com/amp/story/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/israeli-arms-embargo-not-wise-with-us-and-uk-in-totally-different-situations-says-cameron-13134208

Did Cameron's Government do anything to forward the Peace Process? I can't remember them doing anything. A lot of the illegal settlements on the West Bank would have been built under his watch. Did they just turn a blind eye?

[TDYER63]

15 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Did Cameron's Government do anything to forward the Peace Process? I can't remember them doing anything. A lot of the illegal settlements on the West Bank would have been built under his watch. Did they just turn a blind eye?

I honestly dont know, I only became remotely interested in politics after the referendum. 
I think i remember him being outspoken against Israel when he first became PM, but it didn’t last long and soon fell into line. For people like David Cameron, cash and cronies will always come before conscience. 
 

CAAT’s response to Cameron interview.

https://caat.org.uk/news/media-release-david-cameron-is-shamefully-misleading-the-country-over-uks-1bn-arms-sales-to-israel/

[exile]

 

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, exile said:

 

Some of the replies on there are beyond contempt. Too many people choose a side and live in a world of right or wrong . 

[exile]

11 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Some of the replies on there are beyond contempt. Too many people choose a side and live in a world of right or wrong . 

It's easy for naysayers to complain and heckle and denigrate others. Not so easy to assemble such a march. 

Those who support the Israeli action, let them assemble their flag-bearing keyboard warriors and share their video.

[kumnio]

Why is Gaza getting so much attention, but so many conflicts are just ignored. Terrible things are happening on every continent, well apart from Oceania and Antartica, but we never hear of them.

Ive always been pretty much Pro Palestine and Anti Israel, but Im bored of seeing it now. This will never stop, there will be no permanent peace, there will be no moving forward. There are two opposing sides who will never agree on anything substantial. The killings might stop for a week, a month or so eventually, then it will resume.

We can argue about the rights and the wrongs, but its utterly futile. None of this makes any difference, the world doesn't care about a wee march in Edinburgh, or what some guy on the internet thinks. This will only stop when everyone is dead.

Happy Sunday.

[exile]

29 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Why is Gaza getting so much attention, but so many conflicts are just ignored. Terrible things are happening on every continent, well apart from Oceania and Antartica, but we never hear of them.

Ive always been pretty much Pro Palestine and Anti Israel, but Im bored of seeing it now. This will never stop, there will be no permanent peace, there will be no moving forward. There are two opposing sides who will never agree on anything substantial. The killings might stop for a week, a month or so eventually, then it will resume.

We can argue about the rights and the wrongs, but its utterly futile. None of this makes any difference, the world doesn't care about a wee march in Edinburgh, or what some guy on the internet thinks. This will only stop when everyone is dead.

Happy Sunday.

One simple reason - moral arguments aside - is that our government is involved, our weapons and/or aid, our  representatives and our taxes are involved. So we are involved in that sense, in a way that we are not involved in, say, East Timor or Xinjiang. So, keeping abreast of things seems reasonable.

You could say all marches are futile, you could say all argument on the internet - whether politics or football - is futile; if so, you don't need to do it (as Alan Partridge nearly said).

Part of the reason I started this thread was that there was at one point more argument about the rights and wrongs of Eurovision than what actually happening in Gaza. But people are free to argue about Eurovision too 🙂 

[DoonTheSlope]

1 hour ago, kumnio said:

Why is Gaza getting so much attention, but so many conflicts are just ignored. Terrible things are happening on every continent, well apart from Oceania and Antartica, but we never hear of them.

Ive always been pretty much Pro Palestine and Anti Israel, but Im bored of seeing it now. This will never stop, there will be no permanent peace, there will be no moving forward. There are two opposing sides who will never agree on anything substantial. The killings might stop for a week, a month or so eventually, then it will resume.

We can argue about the rights and the wrongs, but its utterly futile. None of this makes any difference, the world doesn't care about a wee march in Edinburgh, or what some guy on the internet thinks. This will only stop when everyone is dead.

Happy Sunday.

 

[exile]

Massive protests in that famously anti-semitic city, Tel Aviv

 

[exile]

Israel condemned as ‘barbaric’ strike on Rafah refugee camp kills at least 50

mostly women and children, in tents, apparently

[Big Ramy 1314]

11 minutes ago, exile said:

Israel condemned as ‘barbaric’ strike on Rafah refugee camp kills at least 50

mostly women and children, in tents, apparently

But, but, it's no genocide, and Hamas is to blame....😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

[mccaughey85]

On 5/19/2024 at 1:54 PM, kumnio said:

Why is Gaza getting so much attention, but so many conflicts are just ignored. Terrible things are happening on every continent, well apart from Oceania and Antartica, but we never hear of them.

Ive always been pretty much Pro Palestine and Anti Israel, but Im bored of seeing it now. This will never stop, there will be no permanent peace, there will be no moving forward. There are two opposing sides who will never agree on anything substantial. The killings might stop for a week, a month or so eventually, then it will resume.

We can argue about the rights and the wrongs, but its utterly futile. None of this makes any difference, the world doesn't care about a wee march in Edinburgh, or what some guy on the internet thinks. This will only stop when everyone is dead.

Happy Sunday.

I think the amount of women and children getting massacred is possibly more than most other conflicts and that's why it's such big news. It certainly feels that way. 

Normally ppl accept that there's death and war in the Palestine but the whole situation seems to have hit a whole new level of craziness and I think that's why it's getting so much coverage plus loads of protests seem to be bringing the subject to the forefront above other conflicts.

Saying that I agree that these protests are pretty futile and pointless.

[DoonTheSlope]

3 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I think the amount of women and children getting massacred is possibly more than most other conflicts and that's why it's such big news. It certainly feels that way. 

 

Equality can be a bitch sometimes

[mccaughey85]

On 5/19/2024 at 3:51 PM, DoonTheSlope said:

 

Not sure that meme is correct. Most ppl don't give a fuck about Jews. I don't think ppl encounter enough Jews to really dislike them much. Especially if you live in Scotland or any other places where there are very few of them.

I think most ppl just feel the massacres are excessive and Palestinians are suffering. 

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, DoonTheSlope said:

Equality can be a bitch sometimes

Really? Either way it's a harsh situation and the amount of ppl getting massacred is brutal.

And if the media reports are true about the amount of children getting massacred then we are talking about unprecedented times.

I can't imagine any other nation on earth that would get away with killing as many children as Israel are doing. It's quite incredible at times and I genuinely think we might see a full scale regional conflict in the middle east if Israel keep going.  

[exile]

22 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Saying that I agree that these protests are pretty futile and pointless.

 

I don't think it's so easy to conclude what is pointless or not. I would imagine that the scenes of ranks of ordinary people marching round the world (and especially in Israel) would help galvanise the spine of the international organisations pursuing Netanyahu and/or recognising Palestine.

Especially democratic governments, who need to keep an eye on popular support. And even, who knows, UK political parties dragged kicking and screaming towards urging restraint and ceasefire. Do you think they would do that if the populace just sat back watching Love Island and the Champions League, and shrugged 'nothing to do with us, guv'?

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, exile said:

 

I don't think it's so easy to conclude what is pointless or not. I would imagine that the scenes of ranks of ordinary people marching round the world (and especially in Israel) would help galvanise the spine of the international organisations pursuing Netanyahu and/or recognising Palestine.

Especially democratic governments, who need to keep an eye on popular support. And even, who knows, UK political parties dragged kicking and screaming towards urging restraint and ceasefire. Do you think they would do that if the populace just sat back watching Love Island and the Champions League, and shrugged 'nothing to do with us, guv'?

Well there's been loads of massive protests and vocal support for Palestine across the globe and it hasn't stopped the carnage. 

Personally I don't think it makes a huge difference. Maybe if ppl voted in a party that would pressurise Israel into changing then we might see some progress.

I doubt that happens and it would take alot of countries doing the same to see results.

Instead we have rishi sunak declaring his support for Israel and USA appear to be pro Israel as well.

Feels like the only way we see this ending is if Iran and it's proxy rebels groups start attacking Israel to the point that they back down or we see a full scale regional war which could threaten to go nuclear. 

[Big Ramy 1314]

I will keep my comments to myself, as I enjoy this board, and I would have a permanent ban if I say what want to say.... Free Palestine 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

[exile]

16 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Well there's been loads of massive protests and vocal support for Palestine across the globe and it hasn't stopped the carnage. 

Personally I don't think it makes a huge difference. Maybe if ppl voted in a party that would pressurise Israel into changing then we might see some progress.

I doubt that happens and it would take alot of countries doing the same to see results.

Instead we have rishi sunak declaring his support for Israel and USA appear to be pro Israel as well.

Feels like the only way we see this ending is if Iran and it's proxy rebels groups start attacking Israel to the point that they back down or we see a full scale regional war which could threaten to go nuclear. 

True is hasn't stopped the carnage. But it might help the push to hold the perpetrators to account.

And I think there is a danger that it would be worse, if the public turned a blind eye to it.

It's a bit like the Stop the War protests on Iraq. It didn't stop the war, but it might have helped prevent following governments from sending British troops into Libya or Syria. Maybe if millions had protested at the 'first Iraq war', they might have not been so keen on the replay. 

[kumnio]

1 hour ago, exile said:

Do you think they would do that if the populace just sat back watching Love Island and the Champions League, and shrugged 'nothing to do with us, guv'?

The vast over-whelming majority of people are doing exactly that.

Ive just googled these numbers, the news reports will not be absolutely spot on.. Recent protest in Edinburgh was 400 people, recent protest in Glasgow was 2500. If you add them both together, thats roughly 0.05% of the Scottish population. 1 out of every 1900 attended.

Both 'sides' (thats a sad joke) of the UK political elite are backing Israel, I don't think they are doing that out of the goodness of their heart, they are doing it out of self interest.

Even in London, the protests aren't that large, and nothing near what we have seen for other issues recently. There are many reasons for this, some of which are valid, some of which are dubious at best. I don't believe that the Palestine issue is something that the majority of people can get fully behind, of various reasons.

[exile]

4 minutes ago, kumnio said:

The vast over-whelming majority of people are doing exactly that.

Ive just googled these numbers, the news reports will not be absolutely spot on.. Recent protest in Edinburgh was 400 people, recent protest in Glasgow was 2500. If you add them both together, thats roughly 0.05% of the Scottish population. 1 out of every 1900 attended.

Both 'sides' (thats a sad joke) of the UK political elite are backing Israel, I don't think they are doing that out of the goodness of their heart, they are doing it out of self interest.

Even in London, the protests aren't that large, and nothing near what we have seen for other issues recently. There are many reasons for this, some of which are valid, some of which are dubious at best. I don't believe that the Palestine issue is something that the majority of people can get fully behind, of various reasons.

Sure, it's a minority. But for every protestor, there are many others who take heart from it and find their own voices and post about it, and it raises awareness and all helps create political pressure. Even if it's just politicians' virtue-signalling soundbites (as some might say), it generates awareness and debate, they might not bother if they thought there was no active popular interest.