Project Stop The Jocks!

[ParisInAKilt]

Nothing "right wing" about objecting to a party you were not able to vote for forming part of the UK Government - especially when said party are a bunch of a***holes who don't believe in the country they would be governing and would be doing everything in their power to bring it down from within. Makes perfect sense to me to be opposed to that nightmare scenario. If Labour entered into negotiations with the SNP to form a coalition in the event of a hung parliament I would be absolutely appalled.

Fortunately such a scenario is unlikely though because we No voters will be voting tactically to keep the SNP out.

I'd be absolutely terrified that if the SNP form part of the next government then chaos will very quickly follow. The English simply wouldn't tolerate it. The government would quickly collapse, another election would swiftly follow and I don't like to think about what might happen next.

For me this highlights the problems with the union. This is a real problem for England and by all accounts they and their media are not handling it well, attacking scottish voters for voting snp won't help matters.

Every person in the UK has the right to vote for the party that bests represents their views. Is it any wonder that people in scotland are possibly going to reject the westminster parties?

Maybe we aren't better together after all

Edited March 8, 2015 by ParisInAKilt

[Goozay]

all these things have been apparent for years

We're not all as enlightened as you. If we were Yes would have won last year...

[Hertsscot]

Nothing "right wing" about objecting to a party you were not able to vote for forming part of the UK Government - especially when said party are a bunch of a***holes who don't believe in the country they would be governing and would be doing everything in their power to bring it down from within. Makes perfect sense to me to be opposed to that nightmare scenario. If Labour entered into negotiations with the SNP to form a coalition in the event of a hung parliament I would be absolutely appalled.

Fortunately such a scenario is unlikely though because we No voters will be voting tactically to keep the SNP out.

I'd be absolutely terrified that if the SNP form part of the next government then chaos will very quickly follow. The English simply wouldn't tolerate it. The government would quickly collapse, another election would swiftly follow and I don't like to think about what might happen next.

If that's really the case then maybe the Unionist parties should have been a bit more forward thinking then rather than bullying, bribing and lovebombing Scotland to stay (for the time being)

Edited March 8, 2015 by Hertsscot

[aaid]

Is it possible, worthy of thought even, that Scottish Labour have already given up on GE2015 and have already begun their campaign for Holyrood 2016?

Most if not all of their pronouncements seem to be on devolved issues.

I don't think that's what is going on here.

This is a completely new situation for Labour - actually for everyone.

Labour are used to fighting an election either as the incumbent or as the opposition.

If they are the opposition then it's pretty simple, make lots of promises and attack the incumbent's record in government.

If they are the. Incumbents then they defend their own record in government and attack the record of the opposition when they were in power - which to be fair is pretty much what Nicola does every week at FMQs.

Problem now is that in Scotland they are up against the SNP, not the Tories, and Labour are the opposition but it's a Westminster election and the SNP are not in power there. Even worse, they've never really had any influence at all as far as Westminster is concerned.

Since they can't think in anything other than straight lines, all they can do is to fight on the Holyrood battle ground and hope that the electorate isn't sophisticated to realise the difference and also try and discredit them in general terms. Problem is that for a two term incumbent government in Holyrood, the SNP are actually pretty popular.

[Padre Andrew]

Is it possible, worthy of thought even, that Scottish Labour have already given up on GE2015 and have already begun their campaign for Holyrood 2016?

Erm... No.

Behind the scenes some (allegedly) concede that they're onto a hiding, but they're still fighting desperately, sticking to the belief that it's their right to rule.

[exile]

Bit surprised at some of the hysterical reaction and Scottish- and SNP-phobia from some quarters.

Here's an alternative take from politics.co.uk

"An SNP landslide could save the Union"

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/03/06/an-snp-victory-could-save-the-union

"If the people of Scotland vote SNP in the numbers we're expecting, it would go against the principle of the Union to deny that voice influence in Westminster."

[Bino's]

We're not all as enlightened as you. If we were Yes would have won last year...

most people were completely enlightened but unfortunately also shitebags

[Padre Andrew]

Bit surprised at some of the hysterical reaction and Scottish- and SNP-phobia from some quarters.

Here's an alternative take from politics.co.uk

"An SNP landslide could save the Union"

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/03/06/an-snp-victory-could-save-the-union

"If the people of Scotland vote SNP in the numbers we're expecting, it would go against the principle of the Union to deny that voice influence in Westminster."

This article takes a very short-term, and very optimistic, view (from the perspective of the UK state).

It assumes a large SNP bloc would be subsumed into the great British government, effectively neutering it. This ignores the drive of the people who vote SNP.

[Goozay]

most people were completely enlightened but unfortunately also shitebags

We're all glad you're not the SNP's lead strategist.

[Bino's]

We're all glad you're not the SNP's lead strategist.

that is what happened, as it will in may, giving them another chance again to take the votes and immediately turn their back on those

[ParisInAKilt]

that is what happened, as it will in may, giving them another chance again to take the votes and immediately turn their back on those

Insulting and antagonising people isn't a vote winner.

As hard as it, some peoples journey to yes will take longer

[Orraloon]

Anything after that just loses currency.

Aye, but whose currency is it?

[mariokempes56]

Aye, but whose currency is it?

Fukkin raisinist bastards

[Orraloon]

I am a wee bit concerned that so many folk seem to think that the SNP have already won 40 or 50 seats based on not much more than a few opinion polls. I still think the SNP will win no more than 15 to 20 seats. And that would be an excellent achievement. I really hope I am wrong.

These opinion polls will encourage Scottish Tories to get out and use their vote tactically. They will turn out in huge numbers, just like they did in the referendum. If it was a normal election turnout of 60-65% them maybe the SNP would get this landslide but I think the turnout will be close to the referendum turnout and the Tories will do whatever they need to, to try and stop the SNP.

I also think the Tories will win the general election. All this vitriolic anti Scottish stuff in the MSM will be enough to scare the English into voting Tory to make sure they don't end up being ruled by a bunch of uppity Jocks.

[Goozay]

that is what happened, as it will in may, giving them another chance again to take the votes and immediately turn their back on those

Does that sentence have an ending?

[G-Man]

I agree with Orraloon, these polls scare me. It was the optimistic polls pre referendum that got all Yes voters excited and No voters motivated. I'd go as far as to say it's a deliberate policy by MSM.

[aaid]

I agree with Orraloon, these polls scare me. It was the optimistic polls pre referendum that got all Yes voters excited and No voters motivated. I'd go as far as to say it's a deliberate policy by MSM.

The polls ultimately were pretty close to the final outcome of the referendum and we saw how the polls can have an impact when the single Sunday Times poll that showed Yes to be ahead. However that was the side that had slipped behind reacting to the polls not the polls themselves being skewed to encourage people to vote No.

This is a completely different situation, it's more akin to where No were around six month if so out with a twenty point lead - of course the dynamics of a referendum are totally different from a general election. The Yes campaign though had the grassroots activism to chip away at that lead. Labour don't have that.

Remember that the Scottish electorate were comfortable enough in having the SNP in power in Holyrood to vote them in on a landslide in 2011. We know that there were many No voters that voted for the SNP.

[Maq]

Doesn't anyone in the media stop for a second and realise they are part of the problem, writing articles like this is only going to increase the supposed tension between both sides. The lack of self awareness is staggering or maybe it's very deliberate

As a Scotsman living in England, I'm really angered by articles like this, especially from fecking Uncle Tom 'proud Scotsmen'.

It feeds the belief down here that Scotland is full of subsidy junkies, and increases tensions. I know it's only the Daily Mail, but people believe this pish.

Allan Massie is an utter disgrace

[Bzzzz]

The switch in attitude but not tactic just shows you what this union is all about and it isn't us.

[Goozay]

Remember that the Scottish electorate were comfortable enough in having the SNP in power in Holyrood to vote them in on a landslide in 2011. We know that there were many No voters that voted for the SNP.

Loads of No voters didn't bother voting in 2011. The turnout for the referendum was way higher than a normal election and areas with safe SNP seats returned sizeable No majorities.

I doubt that hardcore No vote can be galvanised and coordinated to come out and tactically block the SNP and the turnout is likely to be back down to previous levels. But we'll find out come May.

[Orraloon]

I agree with Orraloon, these polls scare me. It was the optimistic polls pre referendum that got all Yes voters excited and No voters motivated. I'd go as far as to say it's a deliberate policy by MSM.

And your prize for best post of the day is ...........

....a coconut.

[Orraloon]

The polls ultimately were pretty close to the final outcome of the referendum and we saw how the polls can have an impact when the single Sunday Times poll that showed Yes to be ahead. However that was the side that had slipped behind reacting to the polls not the polls themselves being skewed to encourage people to vote No.

This is a completely different situation, it's more akin to where No were around six month if so out with a twenty point lead - of course the dynamics of a referendum are totally different from a general election. The Yes campaign though had the grassroots activism to chip away at that lead. Labour don't have that.

Remember that the Scottish electorate were comfortable enough in having the SNP in power in Holyrood to vote them in on a landslide in 2011. We know that there were many No voters that voted for the SNP.

Loads of No voters didn't bother voting in 2011. The turnout for the referendum was way higher than a normal election and areas with safe SNP seats returned sizeable No majorities.

I doubt that hardcore No vote can be galvanised and coordinated to come out and tactically block the SNP and the turnout is likely to be back down to previous levels. But we'll find out come May.

I really hope you guys are right. My pessimism is mainly based on the fact that 55% of those who voted in September said "No". Very few, if any, of those folk will vote SNP. I think the media will hype it up so much that most of those folk will make the effort to get out and vote. A huge number of them wont be voting FOR anything, just voting against the SNP. It will come down to turnout (I am guessing over 80%) and how many Labour YES votes switch to SNP.

Complacency is our enemy. We still need to work hard for every vote.

[Charlie Endell]

Allan Massie - obviously Scotland's version of Max Hastings.

Had to laugh at all the 'English bulldog is beginning to snarl' nonsense. Cleary a person who is bricking it at the thought of a Nationalist juggernaut heading his way.

As PIAK says, no hint of irony in this piece. Clear forgetting (or probably just ignoring) the fact that Scotland consistently rejected Conservatism yet had our affairs dictated to us by Government for 18 years that we didn't vote for and loathed with a passion.

The boot is clearly on the other foot now, and they can't stomach it. No doubt the right-wing, metropolitan bastards from Surrey will no doubt be crying foul on the Comments bit sooner rather than later.

You don't speak for me. Given the choice between Tories and Labour I'd take the Tories every time - the Tories may be künts but at least they're semi-competent künts - Broon the buffoon left the UK with barely a pot to piss in.

[Flure]

You don't speak for me. Given the choice between Tories and Labour I'd take the Tories every time - the Tories may be künts but at least they're semi-competent künts - Broon the buffoon left the UK with barely a pot to piss in.

Which is the origin of the term "piss poor". Those people who were so poor that they didn't even have a pot to piss in.

Just saying.

[DonnyTJS]

I really hope you guys are right. My pessimism is mainly based on the fact that 55% of those who voted in September said "No". Very few, if any, of those folk will vote SNP. I think the media will hype it up so much that most of those folk will make the effort to get out and vote. A huge number of them wont be voting FOR anything, just voting against the SNP. It will come down to turnout (I am guessing over 80%) and how many Labour YES votes switch to SNP.

Complacency is our enemy. We still need to work hard for every vote.

With the usual caveat that I haven't a clue what's going on, my feeling would be that aaid and Goozay are right.

A YES vote in the referendum was a vote for independence; a vote for the SNP in May is not. There are any number of reasons why a referendum-NO voter might vote for the SNP in the GE.

They may simply have changed their minds - looked around at the political landscape since indie-ref and regretted not taking the plunge.

They may think a large SNP bloc in Westminster will hold the unionist parties to 'the Vow'.

They may think that the SNP are the least bad alternative given that the unionist parties have hardly covered themselves in glory since October.

They may want to stick one up the English cos they can - and causing the predicted hung-parliament chaos would be an amusing way of doing it.

Turnout's bound to be lower than in the referendum, and I'd've thought that too would favour an SNP vote. The polls feel pretty much spot on to me at the moment.