RenfrewBlue Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 You can single out sectarian abuse as something special. It's very easy. It's the most prevalent. It's specific to Scotland - so it needs a Scottish solution. Sectarian abuse must be singled out - its the most effective way to address it. We've seen what happens when you lump "abuse" into one large pot and try to address it - I give you The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012. If you try and define "abuse" at a football game no one will know where to start. The referee makes a bad decision and I shout out "for f@cks sake ref!," loud enough for folk around to me hear and even the ref himself if he's close enough and I time it right. Is that abuse? Should I be objected from the ground, should the club be fined or docked points? There's a couple of times in my workplace where colleagues or even my boss has questioned my methods to get a project done. That's fine, but if they started singing in unison "you don't know what you're doing" that's technically abuse. You want that song banned from grounds as well? I'm saying there's songs being sung at grounds that are definitely sectarian and steps should be taken to eradicate them. You're saying "no wait, wait, there's other songs that aren't sectarian that are equally bad. We have to get all the bad songs." Start with the most prevalent, obvious songs. You know better than me which songs I'm talking about. It's a start. See what progress we've made and what else needs to be done. Your way - we go round and round debating what's abusive and what's not and nothing gets done. Ever. I see what you're saying but I don't agree. There are other songs that aren't sectarian but are abusive that can obviously be classed as such. You're assuming that because it's non-sectarian it's difficult to class as abusive. That's simply not the case. As others have pointed out some sectarian songs dance a fine line so would be difficult to catch. I agree that you start with the obvious but that doesn't just mean sectarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 You can single out sectarian abuse as something special. It's very easy. It's the most prevalent. It's specific to Scotland - so it needs a Scottish solution. I don't agree at all. Apart from one recent, spectacular occurrence on live TV sectarianism is a small problem in both Scottish society and Scottish football. Sectarianism is also not specific to Scotland, or Northern Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I don't agree at all. Apart from one recent, spectacular occurrence on live TV sectarianism is a small problem in both Scottish society and Scottish football. Sectarianism is also not specific to Scotland, or Northern Ireland. ... just when I thought we were getting somewhere. A small problem is it? So you won't notice it when it goes. That's nice. I see what you're saying but I don't agree. There are other songs that aren't sectarian but are abusive that can obviously be classed as such. You're assuming that because it's non-sectarian it's difficult to class as abusive. That's simply not the case. As others have pointed out some sectarian songs dance a fine line so would be difficult to catch. I agree that you start with the obvious but that doesn't just mean sectarian. You start with the the most prevalent, which as you've stated is sectarian abuse, that way it will have the biggest impact. You learn from how effective that was and adapt to address other forms of abuse. Call it a pilot project. But I've a feeling we're going to have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 ... just when I thought we were getting somewhere. A small problem is it? So you won't notice it when it goes. That's nice. You start with the the most prevalent, which as you've stated is sectarian abuse, that way it will have the biggest impact. You learn from how effective that was and adapt to address other forms of abuse. Call it a pilot project. But I've a feeling we're going to have to agree to disagree. You're not really advancing your view, since you refuse to take part in the debate. Goodnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Sectarian stuff is pretty much in the fabric in part of the country The songs and flags have almost become institutionalized over the decades Harder for some to wean off Homosexuality was illegal in some punters living memories and typically fair game thru 80 s and 90s Racist chants and behaviour were pretty common place for many years ; mimicked on tv as recently ad 80s with show 'mixed blessings' Mind your language etc Beastiality appears a bit of grey area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You can single out sectarian abuse as something special. It's very easy. It's the most prevalent. It's specific to Scotland - so it needs a Scottish solution. Sectarian abuse must be singled out - its the most effective way to address it. We've seen what happens when you lump "abuse" into one large pot and try to address it - I give you The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012. If you try and define "abuse" at a football game no one will know where to start. The referee makes a bad decision and I shout out "for f@cks sake ref!," loud enough for folk around to me hear and even the ref himself if he's close enough and I time it right. Is that abuse? Should I be objected from the ground, should the club be fined or docked points? There's a couple of times in my workplace where colleagues or even my boss has questioned my methods to get a project done. That's fine, but if they started singing in unison "you don't know what you're doing" that's technically abuse. You want that song banned from grounds as well? I'm saying there's songs being sung at grounds that are definitely sectarian and steps should be taken to eradicate them. You're saying "no wait, wait, there's other songs that aren't sectarian that are equally bad. We have to get all the bad songs." Start with the most prevalent, obvious songs. You know better than me which songs I'm talking about. It's a start. See what progress we've made and what else needs to be done. Your way - we go round and round debating what's abusive and what's not and nothing gets done. Ever. Excellent points and fair play for sticking with this and not getting exasperated and giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Is this still going? I think incidents of racism in scottish football are few and far between these days, we've come a long way since the days of Mark Walters and Paul Elliott playing in Scotland. Homophobia is an interesting one, as it's probably pretty rife in football culture. Most of us will have grown up with homophobic insults being the norm in the playground etc. and it's no coincidence there are very few openly gay footballers. It's pretty rare to hear a crowd en masse singing racist or homophobic songs, although it does happen ("the hibees are gay" or "whores poofs and junkies" or even "we hate Jimmy hill..."). Edited February 12, 2015 by sbcmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It's specific to Scotland Bollox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Why don't the board admin start by banning members for using fen.ian hu.n sheepsha.gger or any other derogatory terms then? Edited February 12, 2015 by Debian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Why don't the board admin start by banning members for using fen.ian hu.n sheepsha.gger or any other derogatory terms then? Because there is nothing sectarian about the word "hvn"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Why don't the board admin start by banning members for using fen.ian hu.n sheepsha.gger or any other derogatory terms then? Don't think I've ever seen someone use the F word before on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Don't think I've ever seen someone use the F word before on here And if they did, it was probably Debian before he mellowed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandydunn Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Don't think I've ever seen someone use the F word before on here I used about 4 times in one post a few pages back. But it was all in context Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bzzzz Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Just you ignore my later post so you can have a wee pop, no problem. No deflection here, just a realistic attitude that it's not all Rangers fans. Some people on here though just can't accept that. I'd say they were the ones deflecting. In case you can't find my later post, or are too blinkered I condemned all bigotry and agreed that currently the Rangers fans are particularly bad. I would say Celtic are FAR worse. Saying that with "The Rangers" not being in the top flight no really seen much of them but compatibly at Tynecastle no one comes close to the disgrace Celtic bring on themselves And To Scotland and get away with time after time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Don't think I've ever seen someone use the F word before on here It's been used on this thread and plenty of others. It seems plenty are happy to use Hu.un specifically... It doesn't bother me but it has similar connotations to fenian and is based on a team/religion/belief... Possibly an Administrator could clarify. It either all gets stamped out or not. You can't pick and choose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 And if they did, it was probably Debian before he mellowed out. I'm well loved really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It seems plenty are happy to use Hu.un specifically... It doesn't bother me but it has similar connotations to fenian Well that's complete and under bullshite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'd use Huun, but wouldn't use feenian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well that's complete and under bullshite. Cmon Parky, I thought you were reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'd use Huun, but wouldn't use feenian. Why is one acceptable? Genuine question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Why is one acceptable? Genuine question. A hu.un is a Rangers fan. Fenian is a term which has been bastardised to become a derogatory term for a Irish Catholic. I'm sure even you are bright enough to see the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'd equate h.un with tim and fenian with orange, as in fenian bassa or orange bassa. Neither Tim Nor Hu.n on their own are either sectarian or even offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'd equate h.un with tim and fenian with orange, as in fenian bassa or orange bassa. Neither Tim Nor Hu.n on their own are either sectarian or even offensive. I never thought I'd say this.... EK, you're the voice of reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_Zeppelin Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I never thought I'd say this.... EK, you're the voice of reason. I always thought you would. Only a matter of time, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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