Scotland V Norway

[Burj_Alba]

5 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Quite, but who? McCrorie has potential but he needs to be playing at least as much as McLaughlin did. Slicker from U21 maybe but he's not playing at a high enough level. I don't think Kelly would have done better than Clark.

Think if Slicker can somehow get into the Ipswich side, injury or poor form by the No 1 keeper (they are second in the championship) then he will replace Clark and/or Kelly.

Always looks assured when he is with the under 21s, had a cracking match the other night. 

 

[wanderer]

Think last two games have shown just what a difference Gunn was for getting us to the Euros, and will be our No1 for the next decade most likely.

Defense was ok, but felt Taylor let himself down (and when he got his last cap when Robbo was out he actually played not bad at all, but really was poor this time around) but its clear we are better with 5 at the back (think Clarke only went 4 to try make it that we do not have to rely so heavily on Tierney) 

Midfield played well (kind of wish Ferguson got a start, but Clarke clearly wanted the win in this game and sent his heavy hitters out in midfield), but felt Brown just was not up to it upfront..... put himself about, but just not got what it took.

[wanderer]

7 minutes ago, Burj_Alba said:

Think if Slicker can somehow get into the Ipswich side, injury or poor form by the No 1 keeper (they are second in the championship) then he will replace Clark and/or Kelly.

Always looks assured when he is with the under 21s, had a cracking match the other night. 

 

I think Clarke will probably have another crack at Jason Steele.

If he plans to find a new 3rd choice keeper, he is probably going to need to go with youth, as it would be a hard sell to try get someone to switch and tell them that they will be playing 3rd pick at the Euros and probably 2nd choice to Gunn for the next 8-10 years.

[Caledonian Craig]

The thing is I buy into Steve Clarke's mantra of needed to improve to the next level and hence taking on friendlies against top sides recently to test ourselves against the best.

However. to improve to the next level we need to unearth better options than Clark and Kelly as back up keepers, better options up front than Brown and better options at wing-back to Greg Taylor. Goalkeeping-wise bring in Cieran Slicker as third choice to Gordon (when fit) and Gunn. Up front look at Stewart, Conway and definitely integrate Doak into the full squad now. As for wing-backs look to Josh Doig, Luis Binks at Coventry City and options from the U-21s.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[TDYER63]

20 hours ago, duncan II said:

Clarke was forced into a couple of changes. He's also in the position of using this game to try a couple of things that are probably not first choice options. What a great position to have been in, especially given the lack of friendly options there will be. And it was a draw, not a defeat. Under the various circumstances, I'm happy. I think people are overreacting a bit. 🙂

You just cannot please some folk. Everyone knows that we do not have the strength in depth to replace top players. It is what it is.
I watched the highlights today and Steve Clarke’s interview. He is very realistic. He said something like‘ we have been working really hard to make ourselves competitive and challenge top teams, that is as much as you can do’ . And he is right. This squad are night and day from 3 or 4 years ago. One of the biggest improvements has been our ability to keep fighting and come back from behind. 

I thought Armstrong was great, I am a fan. He can be inconsistent but always gives his all. Thought the crowd was flat . Not sure if it was because the edge was off the game due to it being reasonably meaningless . Felt we could have made the effort to make some noise the entire game though given this was the last game and first home game since we qualified , but it was patchy. We need drums or something in there. 

[Yr Alban]

17 hours ago, scotlad said:

I think a winger would have been useful on Thursday against Georgia, who packed their defence and were intent on being hard to break down (as well as cheating and timewasting!). Someone who could run with the ball, beat his man and put in a good delivery could have opened them up a lot sooner. The trouble is, we don't many players who are capable of that. Ryan Fraser springs to mind and he's on form for Southampton just now, but I think he's still firmly in Steve Clarke's bad books.

David Marshall was (and probably still is) a much better goalie than Zander Clark though. David Marshall was playing for Celtic in the Champions League when he was 19 and went onto get contract after contract with clubs down south. Zander Clark played for St Johnstone until he was 29 then couldn't get a club for months.

Zander is a decent SPL goalie. Perfectly happy to have him in goal for Hearts, but I absolutely agree he isn’t international standard and it showed last night. There was a touch of misfortune about all 3 goals (first was deflected, second he was horribly exposed by the defence, third two defenders fell over to allow the cross and free header) but Gordon, even at age 40, saves at least two of the three. Gunn probably does as well.

[Third Lanark]

3 hours ago, wanderer said:

I think Clarke will probably have another crack at Jason Steele.

If he plans to find a new 3rd choice keeper, he is probably going to need to go with youth, as it would be a hard sell to try get someone to switch and tell them that they will be playing 3rd pick at the Euros and probably 2nd choice to Gunn for the next 8-10 years.

He's not eligible, is he? And anyway, he's 33!

[ger intae them]

6 hours ago, daviebee said:

If Doak is playing then I'd like to see Shankland up front.  That cross Patterson put over for Brown... Doak will put these over all game and you want a poacher in there on the end of them.  No point putting them over for a Jacob Brown who clearly hasn't got it or an off-form Dykes.

Maybe in future he’ll put them over all game but right now it’s just a hope that Doak progresses ……. limited end product so far. He needs to dazzle a few times for Liverpool then full team.

[Hertsscot]

First time I'd been to a game on a Sunday evening, not really sure that's the best time for a football match.

The match itself was strange, I've never been to a game when we had already qualified. There was a bit of a party atmosphere at the beginning but that went pretty quick when Norway scored.

Didn't stay around at the end because I had a train to catch but felt a bit flat as we should have won and gave away a sloppy goal at the end.

Haven't really got much to add in terms of analysis or who played/didn't play/ didn't play as much as I'd have hoped because I think there's probably a fair bit of consensus. The only thing I would mention is McKenna and Patterson have had very little first team football recently and I think both, particularly Patterson, did reasonably well under the circumstances. Both could do with a move in January if they're not playing.

 

 

[GHfaeGTA]

4 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

First time I'd been to a game on a Sunday evening, not really sure that's the best time for a football match.

The match itself was strange, I've never been to a game when we had already qualified. There was a bit of a party atmosphere at the beginning but that went pretty quick when Norway scored.

Didn't stay around at the end because I had a train to catch but felt a bit flat as we should have won and gave away a sloppy goal at the end.

Haven't really got much to add in terms of analysis or who played/didn't play/ didn't play as much as I'd have hoped because I think there's probably a fair bit of consensus. The only thing I would mention is McKenna and Patterson have had very little first team football recently and I think both, particularly Patterson, did reasonably well under the circumstances. Both could do with a move in January if they're not playing.

 

 

McKenna is apparently not willing to sign his new contract offer (out of contract in Summer) so he has been removed from 1st team squad. If he does not move in January, he’s unlikely to play much before Euros 

[Hertsscot]

50 minutes ago, GHfaeGTA said:

McKenna is apparently not willing to sign his new contract offer (out of contract in Summer) so he has been removed from 1st team squad. If he does not move in January, he’s unlikely to play much before Euros 

I'm aware of the contract situation. Someone mentioned it a few weeks back. I presume that Forest would prefer to sell him in January rather than lose him for nothing in the summer. He's done pretty well for them, so I'd expect a bit of interest in him.

[Kirk]

3 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

You just cannot please some folk. Everyone knows that we do not have the strength in depth to replace top players. It is what it is.
I watched the highlights today and Steve Clarke’s interview. He is very realistic. He said something like‘ we have been working really hard to make ourselves competitive and challenge top teams, that is as much as you can do’ . And he is right. This squad are night and day from 3 or 4 years ago. One of the biggest improvements has been our ability to keep fighting and come back from behind. 

I thought Armstrong was great, I am a fan. He can be inconsistent but always gives his all. Thought the crowd was flat . Not sure if it was because the edge was off the game due to it being reasonably meaningless . Felt we could have made the effort to make some noise the entire game though given this was the last game and first home game since we qualified , but it was patchy. We need drums or something in there. 

The atmosphere at Hampden has been shite for 10 year at least

3 hours ago, ger intae them said:

Maybe in future he’ll put them over all game but right now it’s just a hope that Doak progresses ……. limited end product so far. He needs to dazzle a few times for Liverpool then full team.

Agree, doaks done fuck all. Needs to play and impress regularly 

[scotlad]

4 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

He's not eligible, is he? And anyway, he's 33!

The Brighton goalie? I believe he is eligible, aye. I hadn't realised he was as old as 33 though.

[romanticscot]

Isn't there an American keeper with Scottish connections or a Scottish keeper playing in MLS, I've been looking but I can find who I was thinking of. 

[er yir macaroon]

12 hours ago, ger intae them said:

Maybe in future he’ll put them over all game but right now it’s just a hope that Doak progresses ……. limited end product so far. He needs to dazzle a few times for Liverpool then full team.

I’m not sure how many games Bobb has had for Man City but he was outstanding for Norway and will reap the benefits. No reason we couldn’t do the same with Doak. 

[wanderer]

12 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

He's not eligible, is he? And anyway, he's 33!

Yes, and Clarke apparently approached him the same time he approached Gunn at the start of this year, only he said no.

Do not think its a major concern, but Clarke probably looking for a short term 3rd choice keeper, who will be promoted to No2 if Gordon chucks it with Scotland after the Euros.

His options for 3rd choice are pretty limited, go with a bench warmer like Clark or McCrorie, or a majorly off form Kelly (and given his loyalty to a majorly off form David Marshall at Euro 2020 ended up costing us, sure thats something he would like to avoid). 

[Caledonian Craig]

22 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

I’m not sure how many games Bobb has had for Man City but he was outstanding for Norway and will reap the benefits. No reason we couldn’t do the same with Doak. 

There are many examples of teenagers being capped by other countries including Spain one of which scored on his debut. We need to continue to build for the future so why play Jacob Brown instead of Ben Doak?

[Tartan blood]

22 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

I’m not sure how many games Bobb has had for Man City but he was outstanding for Norway and will reap the benefits. No reason we couldn’t do the same with Doak. 

Wikipedia says 4. Don't know if they are starts or not. Might not include cup games either. Certainly not been involved much more than Doak, and is 2 years older.

I can see why people think Doak doesn't deserve a callup yet, but I really don't see the harm in having a look at him in upcoming friendlies. As I mentioned in a previous post, getting him in the Scotland fold could help his development at Liverpool. Plus, if he does well for us, then we could justify picking him for the Euros. We are no strangers to playing people with lack of game time.

[ProudScot]

9 hours ago, Kirk said:

The atmosphere at Hampden has been shite for 10 year at least

Agree, doaks done fuck all. Needs to play and impress regularly 

Bobbs done less than fuck all and he just had a cracking game for Norway.

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

There are many examples of teenagers being capped by other countries including Spain one of which scored on his debut. We need to continue to build for the future so why play Jacob Brown instead of Ben Doak?

Yes, and Ross McAusland has only played a few minutes for Rangers and he gets capped by NI!

[N4Footsoldier]

16 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

He's not eligible, is he? And anyway, he's 33!

He's Finnish

[romanticscot]

12 hours ago, romanticscot said:

Isn't there an American keeper with Scottish connections or a Scottish keeper playing in MLS, I've been looking but I can find who I was thinking of. 

Jed Steer is who I am thinking of, I don't know his caliber. I was confusing reality with Football Manager regarding the MLS connection . 

[wanderer]

51 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

Jed Steer is who I am thinking of, I don't know his caliber. I was confusing reality with Football Manager regarding the MLS connection . 

He was at Aston Villa, but he was released in the summer and has been without a club ever since (out of interest, his spot as Villa back up keeper has actually been taken up by former Scotland cap Jordan Archer)

Edited November 21, 2023 by wanderer

[Kirk]

14 hours ago, ProudScot said:

Bobbs done less than fuck all and he just had a cracking game for Norway.

How much reserve or under 23 has he been playing?

 

Doak is playing next to no football when fit.

I doubt Clarke will pick him unless that changed

12 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Yes, and Ross McAusland has only played a few minutes for Rangers and he gets capped by NI!

They're not exactly blessed with a huge pool of good players

[Third Lanark]

22 hours ago, N4Footsoldier said:

He's Finnish

🤣