Squad - Elliot Anderson called up!

[Caledonian Craig]

14 minutes ago, wanderer said:

I was at a Q&A with a member of our Euro 96 and WC98 squads, and he said the must enthusiastic member of the squad was Scot Gemmill, and was putting a number of the Scottish born players noses out of joint that Craig Brown was always using him as the bench mark to get points across about showing a bit of passion when it came to the national team.

And that backs up my point. 

Look at how many Scots born here turned their back on us? Players like McGeady and others were born here but stuck two fingers up to the country. It just shows that being born here does not guarantee a burning love and desire to represent Scotland whereas you'll find more passion to do so in someone born outwith Scotland.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Here is ma take. I wish we had 11 born and bred Scots who listen to Runrig, eat porridge oats, and drink buckfast... on our squad, but sadly that's not the case anymore. Every other country in the world is doing it, so why should we be any different. Elliott Anderson has decided to play for Scotland, whether it's because he couldnae get a game for engerland, I huvnae a monkeys funky. He is a quality player, so I will support this. We have a squad now that I believe can qualify for every tournament we enter, and I quite enjoy that. Young Scottish supporters deserve to see their country play in a world tournament, so let's put the best eligible 11 on the park and have a go... Alba Guy Brath.....

Spot on. That is my take on it too.👍

[Bzzzz]

If you were eligible to play for both but weren't considered good enough to play for Scotland would you opt to play for England? 

I sure as fuck wouldn't.  

[loanhead-tartan]

Hayden hackney hasn’t been included in the 21 squad , wonder if he’s been lured to the dark side 

[Big Ramy 1314]

13 minutes ago, Bzzzz said:

If you were eligible to play for both but weren't considered good enough to play for Scotland would you opt to play for England? 

I sure as fuck wouldn't.  

Me personally??? I would never, ever, never, ever, fuckin wear an england scarf, top, or play for them no matter how many Lamborghini, BMW, Corsica, yaught, Rolex, or millions of pounds, I would never play for them!!! That's just me though...🙂👊

[wanderer]

1 minute ago, loanhead-tartan said:

Hayden hackney hasn’t been included in the 21 squad , wonder if he’s been lured to the dark side 

He is 21 years old and pretty much established at his club, more than likely been probably agreed to let him sit these friendlies out and recall him for qualifiers.

[GHfaeGTA]

38 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

And that backs up my point. 

Look at how many Scots born here turned their back on us? Players like McGeady and others were born here but stuck two fingers up to the country. It just shows that being born here does not guarantee a burning love and desire to represent Scotland whereas you'll find more passion to do so in someone born outwith Scotland.

Was Scot Gemmill not born in Scotland ? Maybe wrong but I thought Archie ensured his wife had him born in Scotland? 

[GHfaeGTA]

6 minutes ago, wanderer said:

He is 21 years old and pretty much established at his club, more than likely been probably agreed to let him sit these friendlies out and recall him for qualifiers.

These are qualifiers. 

[Bzzzz]

2 minutes ago, GHfaeGTA said:

These are qualifiers. 

England game isn't. 

[GHfaeGTA]

14 minutes ago, Bzzzz said:

England game isn't. 

The post was about Hayden Hackney not being in under 21 squad

[vanderark14]

54 minutes ago, Bzzzz said:

If you were eligible to play for both but weren't considered good enough to play for Scotland would you opt to play for England? 

I sure as fuck wouldn't.  

But you are born and bred on scotland and very passionate about scotland. It's easy for you to say it

[wanderer]

1 hour ago, GHfaeGTA said:

Was Scot Gemmill not born in Scotland ? Maybe wrong but I thought Archie ensured his wife had him born in Scotland? 

Archie raced his wife up to Paisley so he could be born in Scotland, then was straight back down the road, as was said at the Q&A, it was hard to take him seriously as a Scot when he had probably a thicker English accent than most of the English players in the squad (and most the players never clicked that he was actually Scottish born) and was hard to keep a straight face when lining up for the anthems and he was belting out Flower of Scotland like a "English Choir boy".

[wanderer]

1 hour ago, GHfaeGTA said:

These are qualifiers. 

Ah, thought it was friendly as the qualifiers come thick and fast from October.

[scotlad]

6 hours ago, Bzzzz said:

Suggesting someone is racist for not wanting an English player playing for the national side is plain stupid. We are completely entitled not to agree with the eligibilty rules and to express an opinion on it. There's nothing we can do about it and the manager will use the rules to our sporting advantage, it's his job, but to be proud and protective of the national side is not some kind of ethnic racism, it's our national team and we support it because it belongs to us.

As I said in a previous post once all the dust settles and we've stopped moaning he'll get all the support the rest of the team gets but there is a point of principle here and we have a right to express it. 

Maybe it isn't racist, but applying very tight, proscriptive parameters to what constitutes being Scottish is, if not racist, then definitely clannish, parochial and, in the modern world, a bit stupid.  

I am willing to bet that every single person on this board - in fact, every single person in this country - knows at least one person from Scotland or with roots in Scotland who now lives and is raising a family outside Scotland - including big, bad England.  Anderson qualifies for Scotland through his granda, who, for all we know, could be alive and well and still only in his fifties, playing a bit of walking fitba himself - his connection to Scotland really isn't that tenuous.

Saying to someone who is keen on Scotland: "Scotland is for us not you...aye, I know your da is from here and supports them but you're English...away and support them..." - that's an attitude I can't get my head around and it's an attitude I don't have any time for.

No one is saying you can't voice your opinion but equally others have the right to say they think it is nonsense (thankfully the latter appears to be the majority opinion).  Personally, I'm glad the rules exist, because the bottom line is demographics are not on our side: we're an already small country with an aging, flatlining, not-particularly-healthy population; a declining birth-rate and a penchant for emigration [that last bit rhymes but I didn't mean it to]. 

Unless we're content to be a Lithuania - also-rans who shuffle out, scratch their arses and finish halfway up the qualifying table every couple of years before shuffling back again - then we're going to need the sons and grandsons of Scots, keen to represent us, to help keep us competitive.   

[Marky]

7 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Maybe it isn't racist, but applying very tight, proscriptive parameters to what constitutes being Scottish is, if not racist, then definitely clannish, parochial and, in the modern world, a bit stupid.  

I am willing to bet that every single person on this board - in fact, every single person in this country - knows at least one person from Scotland or with roots in Scotland who now lives and is raising a family outside Scotland - including big, bad England.  Anderson qualifies for Scotland through his granda, who, for all we know, could be alive and well and still only in his fifties, playing a bit of walking fitba himself - his connection to Scotland really isn't that tenuous.

Saying to someone who is keen on Scotland: "Scotland is for us not you...aye, I know your da is from here and supports them but you're English...away and support them..." - that's an attitude I can't get my head around and it's an attitude I don't have any time for.

No one is saying you can't voice your opinion but equally others have the right to say they think it is nonsense (thankfully the latter appears to be the majority opinion).  Personally, I'm glad the rules exist, because the bottom line is demographics are not on our side: we're an already small country with an aging, flatlining, not-particularly-healthy population; a declining birth-rate and a penchant for emigration [that last bit rhymes but I didn't mean it to]. 

Unless we're content to be a Lithuania - also-rans who shuffle out, scratch their arses and finish halfway up the qualifying table every couple of years before shuffling back again - then we're going to need the sons and grandsons of Scots, keen to represent us, to help keep us competitive.   

Whilst I agree with pretty much all of that, for me there has to be some genuine feeling of allegiance. 

My Grandpa was born in Canada to Scottish parents, who returned to Scotland when he was about 6. So had I been a pro footballer, I'd have been eligible to play for Canada. If I had not been good enough to play for Scotland and decided to play for Canada, I'd definitely have been doing it for career or lifestyle enhancing reasons, because I don't feel one iota of allegiance to Canada.

Another great example of this was the Phil Bardsley case. I think the story was his Dad was born in Scotland while his English grandparents were there on holiday. Despite the fact that Bardsley arguably put in a decent shift for Scotland, I don't believe in this kind of call up.

I realise the notion of allegiance is impossible to qualify, but I think we all know the ones that are at it.

Scott McTominay, Don Hutchison, Graham Alexander etc...yes please, every time.

Phil Bardsley, Matt Elliot, Paul Devlin etc....no thanks, regardless of how good they might be or how much they might benefit the team.

No idea about Anderson. Time will tell I guess.

 

[scotlad]

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes but lets look at the history here. Scotland are not alone here. Every country in the world has played a player eligible to play for them through a parent/grandparent but was not born in that country. Scotland were doing it certainly in the 1970s and I am sure before that too.

If people don't want or can't accept that then they should just stick to club football as nothing is going to change. In a way it is akin to cycling when new tech came into use like carbon-fibre bikes or the skin tight costumes you either used that tech or you lose as they were advantageous - the same goes for the parent/Grandparent role. We don't use it and we will fall further behind the other nations that do and FIFA/UEFA are not dolling out bonus points for countries who do not use the grandparent rule.

I know of own family members who were born in England and have lived there all their lives but brought up by a Scottish father and for it they support Scotland and been to Scotland games and have a sense of Scottish identity. I guarantee too that there are Scots born and brought up here in Scotland who think Scotland are meh and have no interest in the national side. I know who I would sooner have playing or us in those examples and it would not be the born and bred Scots with no passion for Scotland.

 

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

And that backs up my point. 

Look at how many Scots born here turned their back on us? Players like McGeady and others were born here but stuck two fingers up to the country. It just shows that being born here does not guarantee a burning love and desire to represent Scotland whereas you'll find more passion to do so in someone born outwith Scotland.

Two excellent posts, Craig.  👏

There are countries out there who, within living memory, fought wars to achieve independence and, in turn, the right to have their own football team.  Some of the former French colonies, for instance, whose squads have far more players born or raised outside the country than we do.  I wonder if they have message boards full of posts going: "get him tae fuck, he's French!!!" when talking about new players (I doubt it).

One of my cousin's kids has recently started playing football.  She's only 8, so it's a long way off, but it isn't completely inconceivable if she sticks at it that she might turn out to be good enough to be considered for international selection when she's older.  She'd only qualify to play for us through her grandparents but I'd be thrilled if she decided to play for Scotland.  She's up here with her family every summer and the thought of her playing for Scotland when she's older, despite her English upbringing, doesn't seem at all odd to me. 

[csinclair]

10 minutes ago, Marky said:

Whilst I agree with pretty much all of that, for me there has to be some genuine feeling of allegiance. 

My Grandpa was born in Canada to Scottish parents, who returned to Scotland when he was about 6. So had I been a pro footballer, I'd have been eligible to play for Canada. If I had not been good enough to play for Scotland and decided to play for Canada, I'd definitely have been doing it for career or lifestyle enhancing reasons, because I don't feel one iota of allegiance to Canada.

Another great example of this was the Phil Bardsley case. I think the story was his Dad was born in Scotland while his English grandparents were there on holiday. Despite the fact that Bardsley arguably put in a decent shift for Scotland, I don't believe in this kind of call up.

I realise the notion of allegiance is impossible to qualify, but I think we all know the ones that are at it.

Scott McTominay, Don Hutchison, Graham Alexander etc...yes please, every time.

Phil Bardsley, Matt Elliot, Paul Devlin etc....no thanks, regardless of how good they might be or how much they might benefit the team.

No idea about Anderson. Time will tell I guess.

 

What are your thoughts on someone like Dom Hyam? Was born in Scotland whilst his dad was based there in the RAF but moved after 18 months and has lived in England with his English family ever since. 

[scotlad]

11 minutes ago, Marky said:

Whilst I agree with pretty much all of that, for me there has to be some genuine feeling of allegiance. 

My Grandpa was born in Canada to Scottish parents, who returned to Scotland when he was about 6. So had I been a pro footballer, I'd have been eligible to play for Canada. If I had not been good enough to play for Scotland and decided to play for Canada, I'd definitely have been doing it for career or lifestyle enhancing reasons, because I don't feel one iota of allegiance to Canada.

Another great example of this was the Phil Bardsley case. I think the story was his Dad was born in Scotland while his English grandparents were there on holiday. Despite the fact that Bardsley arguably put in a decent shift for Scotland, I don't believe in this kind of call up.

I realise the notion of allegiance is impossible to qualify, but I think we all know the ones that are at it.

Scott McTominay, Don Hutchison, Graham Alexander etc...yes please, every time.

Phil Bardsley, Matt Elliot, Paul Devlin etc....no thanks, regardless of how good they might be or how much they might benefit the team.

No idea about Anderson. Time will tell I guess.

 

I can understand people rolling their eyes at some 28-year-old journeyman from the English Championship being called up but Anderson isn't even 21 yet, he's played age-group level for us already and, crucially, he's a good player playing in the EPL.  I can't see what the issue is here, apart from petty prejudices emanating from people who've seen a couple of McGlashan sketches and didn't get the joke.

[Bzzzz]

12 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Maybe it isn't racist, but applying very tight, proscriptive parameters to what constitutes being Scottish is, if not racist, then definitely clannish, parochial and, in the modern world, a bit stupid.  

I am willing to bet that every single person on this board - in fact, every single person in this country - knows at least one person from Scotland or with roots in Scotland who now lives and is raising a family outside Scotland - including big, bad England.  Anderson qualifies for Scotland through his granda, who, for all we know, could be alive and well and still only in his fifties, playing a bit of walking fitba himself - his connection to Scotland really isn't that tenuous.

Saying to someone who is keen on Scotland: "Scotland is for us not you...aye, I know your da is from here and supports them but you're English...away and support them..." - that's an attitude I can't get my head around and it's an attitude I don't have any time for.

No one is saying you can't voice your opinion but equally others have the right to say they think it is nonsense (thankfully the latter appears to be the majority opinion).  Personally, I'm glad the rules exist, because the bottom line is demographics are not on our side: we're an already small country with an aging, flatlining, not-particularly-healthy population; a declining birth-rate and a penchant for emigration [that last bit rhymes but I didn't mean it to]. 

Unless we're content to be a Lithuania - also-rans who shuffle out, scratch their arses and finish halfway up the qualifying table every couple of years before shuffling back again - then we're going to need the sons and grandsons of Scots, keen to represent us, to help keep us competitive.   

Nope, very reasonable post, I agree with some/much of what you say, was just really the racism thing that annoyed me.

I want England to get fucked in every single possible sporting/competitive discipline imaginable against everyone and ANYONE, that's rivalry not racism, so not wanting someone to decide to play for Scotland because 1) they're not good enough for their own country and 2) because they once saw a photo of a haggis applies equally IMO.

If it were my club team I wouldn't give a flying fuck, in fact I'd absolutely be all over it but this is our national team, it's the ultimate honour to be asked to play for it, I don't accept it being second choice to anyone BUT that's a supporters view and I totally accept it's a different kettle of fish for an athlete/footballer, doesn't alter how I feel about it tho.

As you say, we all know someone who is exiled or like one of my best pals, Cambridge born and bred but through a Scottish Gran supports Scotland. We're aw "us" eh? well some of us are...   
 

[Caledonian Craig]

This squad is an example of how we have improved since the last Euros. It is stronger in every department compared to that squad apart from in the goalkeeping department. That is all we want to see - a continued improvement.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

This squad is an example of how we have improved since the last Euros. It is stronger in every department compared to that squad apart from in the goalkeeping department. That is all we want to see - a continued improvement.

Gordon Marshall or Angus Gunn? 

[Orraloon]

5 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Gordon Marshall or Angus Gunn? 

One of them must be about 60 by now. Don't want him back. Far too old.

[scotlad]

21 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

One of them must be about 60 by now. Don't want him back. Far too old.

🤣

[theabsentee]

12 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Here is ma take. I wish we had 11 born and bred Scots who listen to Runrig, eat porridge oats, and drink buckfast... on our squad, but sadly that's not the case anymore. Every other country in the world is doing it, so why should we be any different. Elliott Anderson has decided to play for Scotland, whether it's because he couldnae get a game for engerland, I huvnae a monkeys funky. He is a quality player, so I will support this. We have a squad now that I believe can qualify for every tournament we enter, and I quite enjoy that. Young Scottish supporters deserve to see their country play in a world tournament, so let's put the best eligible 11 on the park and have a well go... Alba Guy Brath.....

👏💪🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[ParisInAKilt]

15 hours ago, RDFH64 said:

Surely if he has a Scottish grandparent he also has at least one Scottish parent 🤔

😂 depends who they supported … 

But seriously I understand the predicament we’re in, I think it’s just difficult that in almost every scenario these guys share a sporting nationality with our main rival but it is what it is. 

These guys are professionals and in the whole give it everything and that’s all you can ask. 

Time to focus doing the business in Cyprus and securing qualification.