SNP leadership election

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

For me, the whole thing is a storm in a tea cup but it’s the type of storm that current society is all too eager to get their teeth in to. In reality, Forbes is zero threat to anyone’s rights. What is there to be debated is whether people can accept her as a figurehead. What is playing out on the Twitter and Reddit echo chambers is that we don’t have a society that is tolerant enough to accept her having her beliefs.  
 

You say that she is zero threat to anyone's rights, but the next two things coming down the line are a ban on conversion therapy and a private members bill on assisted dying.  She's saying she's opposed to the latter and see's a role for religious communities in the former.

People can believe any fairy stories they want to - that is their right - but no-one should use those fairy stories as a justification for defining what others can and cannot do.   Particularly as I'm pretty sure that "no religion" will be the largest grouping once the 2022 census results are released.

[TDYER63]

18 minutes ago, phart said:

It's not their views on marriage. It's whether they would legislate on legal rights based on sexuality. It's not oh what's your view on marriage. It's do you restrict rights of people cause they aren't heteroesexual. That's a huge issue for loads of folk.

It's total blinkered being oh young folk are more interested on views on marriage and then basically couching it in frankly condescending language, i'm thinking of the big stage. Equal rights is the big stage.  Alienating your biggest demograph by holding anachronistic views is going to be a disaster.

Let's see what happens and what turns out to be a big stage or not a big stage.

I was not being condescending I was being honest. If it sounds condescending it was not intentional. If the country is being run into the ground by someone who is totally out their depth we are all fucked no matter what their views are on equal marriage.I made it clear I am not particularly happy with any of the options. 

I am absolutely in favour of equal marriage and I am pretty certain a large proportion of the electorate, and government, are too. So one person’s view , for religious reasons, would not concern me even if she was the FM. 

I personally have no problem with any of this.

Ms Forbes insisted that she would not attempt to row back on the gay marriage legislation if she became first minister.

She said: "My position on these matters is I will defend to the hilt everybody's right in a pluralistic and tolerant society to live and to love free of harassment and fear. 

"And in the same way I hope that others can be afforded the rights of people of faith to practice fairly mainstream teaching. And that is the nuance that we need to capture on equal marriage.

"Equal marriages is a legal right, and as a servant of democracy, rather than a dictator, I absolutely respect and defend that democratic right."

 

 

[daviebee]

19 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

For me personally, I look firstly that she is entitled to those views. If we are a tolerant society, she is stating her beliefs in an honest way. She is not projecting a demonisation of people, but instead stating her beliefs to which she is true.

It was certainly a bit unusual hearing a politician give a straight answer to a straight question.  Made a nice change.  Not like certain others blustering about whether a rapist was a man or a woman or anything like that.

[scotlad]

55 minutes ago, aaid said:

Had she said something similar to this with relation to equal marriage then I doubt anyone would’ve had much of an issue but she didn’t, she said she wouldn’t have voted for equal marriage.

Bit of a poor headline on this article BTW.

 

KATE Forbes has said she believes having children out of wedlock is “wrong”.

The SNP leadership candidate said in an interview with Sky News she believed it was “up to” individuals whether they had children outside of marriage but it was something she would “avoid”.

Asked for her views on having children out of wedlock, she told the broadcaster: “It's entirely up to them. It's something that I would seek to avoid for me personally.

"But it doesn't fuss me, it doesn't put me up nor down. The choices that other people make is [up to them].

"In terms of my faith, my faith would say that sex is for marriage and that's the approach that I would practice."

She added: “She added: "For me, it would be wrong according to my faith, but for you I have no idea what your faith is. So, in a free society you can do what you want."

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23336365.kate-forbes-says-children-outside-marriage-wrong/

Jeezo, when you're running for the SNP leadership and the fucking National of all papers is running with a headline as misleading as that you know you're up against it! 

[Dave78]

4 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Jeezo, when you're running for the SNP leadership and the fucking National of all papers is running with a headline as misleading as that you know you're up against it! 

Well said. I imagine most of The National journalists/editors are in the Humza/continuity-SNP camp.

 

[daviebee]

Apparently wee Kate's in bother now for saying she believes that a trans woman is a biological male, i.e. understanding basic biology.

It might be pretty entertaining if she gets the gig.  I wonder where all these numpties will flounce off to and if anyone will make videos pleading with them to stay?

[Malcolm]

4 minutes ago, daviebee said:

Apparently wee Kate's in bother now for saying she believes that a trans woman is a biological male, i.e. understanding basic biology.

It might be pretty entertaining if she gets the gig.  I wonder where all these numpties will flounce off to and if anyone will make videos pleading with them to stay?

 

Hamzah is the only bam in the leadership race that might dispute basic science.  He is also not capable enough to run the country.

it would be a disaster for both the snp and the country if he gets the job.

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

Hamzah is the only bam in the leadership race that might dispute basic science.  

 

I suspect Kate Forbes has problems with evolution.

[Ally Bongo]

The SNP is fucked

 

KATE Forbes looks set to be probed by the SNP's conduct committee after members of the party's LGBTQ+ wing accused her of breaking rules on transphobia.

In an interview with ITV Border, when asked if she believed a trans woman is a woman, the Finance Secretary replied: "I believe that a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."

[Malcolm]

23 minutes ago, aaid said:

I suspect Kate Forbes has problems with evolution.

yes, suspect she is a creationist.  Each to their own.

[phart]

Interesting to see "science" cited while having no problem with a story that the creator of the universe waited 14 billion years to impregnate a mammal with opposable thumbs, and a fairly advanced language system. So their offspring could save us from a non-physical phenomenom known as sin which transports our consciousness from our body to another dimension with no time co-ordinate for judgement.

Now there's basic biological understanding for you. Funny how one's beliefs are respected and the others are not.

[phart]

There's no way she is a creationist I imagine? Not someone with her depth of biological acumen.

[Malcolm]

1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

The SNP is fucked

 

KATE Forbes looks set to be probed by the SNP's conduct committee after members of the party's LGBTQ+ wing accused her of breaking rules on transphobia.

In an interview with ITV Border, when asked if she believed a trans woman is a woman, the Finance Secretary replied: "I believe that a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."

hmmn, think you might be right.  Looks like Nicola was holding various factions of the party together.   The vacuum that she has created has let everyone express their real views.

gloves are off, I can see a lot of infighting ahead.

[PapofGlencoe]

not impressed with the "talent" on show so far. 

Humza - doesn't seem well liked by the public.  

Forbes - assumed 100% I'd be supporting her given all the talk of being "switched on".  First impression, oh my goodness no. A disaster.  

Regan - Will not bridge unity rightly or wrongly.  Haven't heard speak but will simply have the same issues Sturgeon had in the party but from the loonies on the "other extreme" of GRR once the court duel is quietly dropped.  

I think there has to be some middle ground between castigating the idea of a defacto referendum at every turn to sound oh so pragmatic (my view is if Kenny Farquarsson et al wants you to do something, do the opposite) and lunging straight in without clear licence from the Scottish people to do so.  

Out of the three Regan so far but only because the other two are so awful.  I give it til the end of the week until Regan goes the same way once we hear her interviews.  Surely there must be other folk?  I think the received wisdom noone else will join the race is out the window.  someone else will see an opening here given the way it's gone.

[Malcolm]

5 minutes ago, phart said:

Interesting to see "science" cited while having no problem with a story that the creator of the universe waited 14 billion years to impregnate a mammal with opposable thumbs, and a fairly advanced language system. So their offspring could save us from a non-physical phenomenom known as sin which transports our consciousness from our body to another dimension with no time co-ordinate for judgement.

Now there's basic biological understanding for you. Funny how one's beliefs are respected and the others are not.

very fair point.

[Squirrelhumper]

19 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The SNP is fucked

 

KATE Forbes looks set to be probed by the SNP's conduct committee after members of the party's LGBTQ+ wing accused her of breaking rules on transphobia.

In an interview with ITV Border, when asked if she believed a trans woman is a woman, the Finance Secretary replied: "I believe that a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."

SNP have created this full mess themselves. Let the party be overun by utter morons 

[PapofGlencoe]

8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The SNP is fucked

 

KATE Forbes looks set to be probed by the SNP's conduct committee after members of the party's LGBTQ+ wing accused her of breaking rules on transphobia.

In an interview with ITV Border, when asked if she believed a trans woman is a woman, the Finance Secretary replied: "I believe that a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."

A view solicited by a question and a genuine (truthful) answer.   Don't see anything hateful here needing probed.  We're in an odd place.

Tell you what the SNP have f'd it.  Lost the plot.  End of an era.

[vanderark14]

30 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The SNP is fucked

 

KATE Forbes looks set to be probed by the SNP's conduct committee after members of the party's LGBTQ+ wing accused her of breaking rules on transphobia.

In an interview with ITV Border, when asked if she believed a trans woman is a woman, the Finance Secretary replied: "I believe that a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."

fuckin hell, congrats to the SNP on this. They've done what Scotland always does, get to within the winning post then beat themselves 🤣

 

[Ally Bongo]

32 minutes ago, phart said:

There's no way she is a creationist I imagine? Not someone with her depth of biological acumen.

David Robertson, The Wee Flea on Twitter, who was the head of the FCOS a few years ago, and an absolute zoomer is opposed to schools not teaching creationism

[vanderark14]

The tories in London must be laughing their nipples off at this shit show.

I'm beginning to think loon was right and I was wrong, the whole GRR bill thing and cosying up to the greens has created a problem we should have been facing post independence not now where it can and has been jumped on by the unionist media.

[aaid]

A wee reminder her that it is the Church of Scotland that is the Established Church in Scotland - not that that matters - and that opposition to equal marriage is very much not the mainstream view.
 

 

[weekevie04]

2 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

David Robertson, The Wee Flea on Twitter, who was the head of the FCOS a few years ago, and an absolute zoomer is opposed to schools not teaching creationism

He's a weird cat. Him and fellow zoomer Jim Spence seem to be paly.

[weekevie04]

2 days in and this has turned into an absolute farce. 

Forbes has literally no awareness or savy ; or she is so blinded to her religious beliefs that she's blow any chance of getting it from the get go. Although got to admire a politician for giving a view. 

 

 

[Ally Bongo]

17 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

2 days in and this has turned into an absolute farce. 

Forbes has literally no awareness or savy ; or she is so blinded to her religious beliefs that she's blow any chance of getting it from the get go. Although got to admire a politician for giving a view. 

 

 

The media are twisting and turning everything she says

She will be burned as a witch before the week is out

There is only so many times she can say that democracy trumps her faith

[Malcolm]

24 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

The tories in London must be laughing their nipples off at this shit show.

I'm beginning to think loon was right and I was wrong, the whole GRR bill thing and cosying up to the greens has created a problem we should have been facing post independence not now where it can and has been jumped on by the unionist media.

When the whole GRR thing started I saw this as a potential outcome.  The Scottish public are still fairly conservative (small c)