The Referree / Var thread..

[RDFH64]

2 hours ago, LoganRoy said:

I see Rangers weren't given a penalty for a tug on Goldson today in the box. 

They weren’t playing Aberdeen 🤔

[LoganRoy]

15 hours ago, slasher said:

You’re wasting your time. They want Collums head on a stick and they think they might have something on him here. All this pish about transparency is just a smokescreen. You only have to look at the reaction to todays penalty award for Killie. Apparently conceding on average a penalty every 60 games is normal……let’s move on etc etc 😂

Haven't Rangers conceded 3 penalties this season in Scotland?

I note Celtic are the only team not to concede a penalty in the league this season.  Big teams getting the big (contentious) decisions as always eh.

[Bzzzz]

The problem with VAR is that it seems to be getting worse rather than better as you might expect. All it has done is moved human error. 

[Diamond Scot]

16 minutes ago, Bzzzz said:

The problem with VAR is that it seems to be getting worse rather than better as you might expect. All it has done is moved human error. 

This was always my problem / fear with VAR. Im very much in favour of using technology for factual matters. Ie is the ball over the line, offside. Even whether or not a foul is inside the box or if the ball has hit a players arm.

However the minute you use it the way it is now then you just create chaos and inconsistency. You end up just reffing the game twice.

People use other sports as an example but in most sports its factual stuff that gets checked.

Even in Rugby, although its changed slightly, it used to be that the ref asked the VAR a direct question. Ie can you check to see if the ball is grounded etc. You would then see what the VAR guy is looking at and then hear him come back and say yes or no.

I believe it would work much better in football if it operated like that. Only for truely off the ball violent conduct, like getting punched off the ball should VAR bring stuff to the refs attention. And even then it should be so obvious that the VAR just tells the ref to send off Red player 7 for punching yellow player 5 etc

Id even be up for having the the assistants to the side of the goals like they trialled a few years back. Assistants on both wings, one to the side of each goal on the opposite side from the one on the wing and the 4th official. Any of them can bring something to the attention of the ref who can then ask VAR a direct question. Heard by the crowd and then the reply also heard.

[Fairbairn]

4 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

This was always my problem / fear with VAR. Im very much in favour of using technology for factual matters. Ie is the ball over the line, offside. Even whether or not a foul is inside the box or if the ball has hit a players arm.

However the minute you use it the way it is now then you just create chaos and inconsistency. You end up just reffing the game twice.

People use other sports as an example but in most sports its factual stuff that gets checked.

Even in Rugby, although its changed slightly, it used to be that the ref asked the VAR a direct question. Ie can you check to see if the ball is grounded etc. You would then see what the VAR guy is looking at and then hear him come back and say yes or no.

I believe it would work much better in football if it operated like that. Only for truely off the ball violent conduct, like getting punched off the ball should VAR bring stuff to the refs attention. And even then it should be so obvious that the VAR just tells the ref to send off Red player 7 for punching yellow player 5 etc

Id even be up for having the the assistants to the side of the goals like they trialled a few years back. Assistants on both wings, one to the side of each goal on the opposite side from the one on the wing and the 4th official. Any of them can bring something to the attention of the ref who can then ask VAR a direct question. Heard by the crowd and then the reply also heard.

There was a game over the last couple of days where someone scored,  might have been Liverpool, and VAR then spent about 2-3 minutes reviewing the build up to see if a foul had been committed before they could confirm if the goal was valid.  Now if VAR spotted something in the build up then fair enough but to actually pause the game while they go back and search for something which, in this case, didn't exist seems absolutely ludicrous.

[LoganRoy]

It needs to be if the ref see's something or is unsure.  The whole clear and obvious part is being disregarded.  

It also feels like a ref would rather give a yellow and not a penalty, and leave it up to VAR to get involved.  

The St Mirren red card yesterday, St Johnstone at Ibrox, and Rangers one last month, they are all clear reds.  If the ref isn't seeing those in real-time and relies on a VAR rep to call it then the refs not doing their job.  

[Diamond Scot]

9 minutes ago, LoganRoy said:

It needs to be if the ref see's something or is unsure.  The whole clear and obvious part is being disregarded.  

It also feels like a ref would rather give a yellow and not a penalty, and leave it up to VAR to get involved.  

The St Mirren red card yesterday, St Johnstone at Ibrox, and Rangers one last month, they are all clear reds.  If the ref isn't seeing those in real-time and relies on a VAR rep to call it then the refs not doing their job.  

Thats why I think having the ref ask a direct question is better. For example the ref blows for a foul. Before giving a card he says to the VAR, I want you to check where the red player has connected with the yellow player and if leg was straight or bent at point of contact. VAR does a quick check and comes back and says, on the shin, straight leg. Ref then says, ok confirmed im going to give a red is there anything else I should be aware of. No, good, red card. 

As long as refs werent going to VAR for every challenge then I think people would accept this. It would also allow us to see the thought process of the ref which is part of the problem atm.

For the Rangers / Celtic game at the weekend there would be an assistant on that side of the goals. If the assistant and ref dont see the handball then nothing happens. If they do and want to confirm if its deliberate then just go to VAR. VAR, can you check if Green players hand moves towards the ball and makes contact. Thats what I believe happened, yes, ok thanks penalty. Offside can be fully automated now as per world cup and champions league so the conversation wouldnt even get that far if Sima was offside. Everybody in the stadium and at home would be in the loop so vastly reduces the scope for all this nonsence.

Of course the problem comes when none of the 6 (ive added 2) officials see something obvious but for me thats sport and can be dealt with by authorities in their review of how the officials handled the game.

[LoganRoy]

9 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Thats why I think having the ref ask a direct question is better. For example the ref blows for a foul. Before giving a card he says to the VAR, I want you to check where the red player has connected with the yellow player and if leg was straight or bent at point of contact. VAR does a quick check and comes back and says, on the shin, straight leg. Ref then says, ok confirmed im going to give a red is there anything else I should be aware of. No, good, red card. 

As long as refs werent going to VAR for every challenge then I think people would accept this. It would also allow us to see the thought process of the ref which is part of the problem atm.

For the Rangers / Celtic game at the weekend there would be an assistant on that side of the goals. If the assistant and ref dont see the handball then nothing happens. If they do and want to confirm if its deliberate then just go to VAR. VAR, can you check if Green players hand moves towards the ball and makes contact. Thats what I believe happened, yes, ok thanks penalty. Offside can be fully automated now as per world cup and champions league so the conversation wouldnt even get that far if Sima was offside. Everybody in the stadium and at home would be in the loop so vastly reduces the scope for all this nonsence.

Of course the problem comes when none of the 6 (ive added 2) officials see something obvious but for me thats sport and can be dealt with by authorities in their review of how the officials handled the game.

I'd be all for this. 

[Diamond Scot]

Apparently Rangers have been allowed to listen to the audio and there is no mention of offside. Decision made purely on basis of handball.

I didnt watch the game but im lead to believe that any handball review didnt take long which having now seen the incident seems like madness to me. Jonhsons hand clearly takes an independent change of direction to hit the ball. Im not overly sure if he means it or not, my 1st thought was that he was trying to grab / manoveure Sima but if its hardly been reviewed then thats really poor from the VAR ref. Especially (and this shouldnt make a difference) in the biggest most contentious game in our footballing calender.

[Fairbairn]

21 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Apparently Rangers have been allowed to listen to the audio and there is no mention of offside. Decision made purely on basis of handball.

I didnt watch the game but im lead to believe that any handball review didnt take long which having now seen the incident seems like madness to me. Jonhsons hand clearly takes an independent change of direction to hit the ball. Im not overly sure if he means it or not, my 1st thought was that he was trying to grab / manoveure Sima but if its hardly been reviewed then thats really poor from the VAR ref. Especially (and this shouldnt make a difference) in the biggest most contentious game in our footballing calender.

Which again begs the question of why the offside stills were released. In my opinion they’ve realised they’ve fucked up by not sending the ref to review the handball and have chucked out the offside excuse hoping it would cover their arse. It’s another absolute shambles from the SFA and it’ll be interesting to see their response. 
 

And just for clarity, I’m not for a second suggesting that this is based on any sort of bias or conspiracy against Rangers, it’s just another in a long list of examples of gross incompetence. 

[Fairbairn]

15 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

Which again begs the question of why the offside stills were released. In my opinion they’ve realised they’ve fucked up by not sending the ref to review the handball and have chucked out the offside excuse hoping it would cover their arse. It’s another absolute shambles from the SFA and it’ll be interesting to see their response. 
 

And just for clarity, I’m not for a second suggesting that this is based on any sort of bias or conspiracy against Rangers, it’s just another in a long list of examples of gross incompetence. 

Meant to caveat the above with - assuming Rangers version of the meeting today is accurate…

[LoganRoy]

Either the SFA won't release the audio as it means any request is met (and it should) or they've something to hide.

If they'd left it as is, and said it wasn't deliberate, and stood by it then that probably would have been it.  

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Fairbairn said:

Which again begs the question of why the offside stills were released. In my opinion they’ve realised they’ve fucked up by not sending the ref to review the handball and have chucked out the offside excuse hoping it would cover their arse. It’s another absolute shambles from the SFA and it’ll be interesting to see their response. 
 

And just for clarity, I’m not for a second suggesting that this is based on any sort of bias or conspiracy against Rangers, it’s just another in a long list of examples of gross incompetence. 

Who released the offside stills?

[slasher]

Operation ‘Lets Get Collum’ in full swing now online and elsewhere but don’t worry it’s for the greater good.

Embarrassing stuff! 
 

Any fan of any other club who is buying into this pish needs to take a long hard look at themselves. The way Rangers Fc go after individuals is disgusting and the fact that what I would term as decent Rangers fans now can’t seem to see it is disturbing.

VAR process and protocol and transparency has always been important but suddenly because the huns throw a hissyfit it now becomes urgent to address it. I would like to know personally why the head of referee’s Crawford Allan was suddenly available to meet a complainant and why the huns were granted not only a meeting but access to VAR audio when others have been denied. 
 

Can you all actually take a minute to imagine what this would have looked like if these cunts had actually been victims of some sort of refereeing injustice?

Edited January 4 by slasher

[vanderark14]

7 hours ago, slasher said:

Operation ‘Lets Get Collum’ in full swing now online and elsewhere but don’t worry it’s for the greater good.

Embarrassing stuff! 
 

Any fan of any other club who is buying into this pish needs to take a long hard look at themselves. The way Rangers Fc go after individuals is disgusting and the fact that what I would term as decent Rangers fans now can’t seem to see it is disturbing.

VAR process and protocol and transparency has always been important but suddenly because the huns throw a hissyfit it now becomes urgent to address it. I would like to know personally why the head of referee’s Crawford Allan was suddenly available to meet a complainant and why the huns were granted not only a meeting but access to VAR audio when others have been denied. 
 

Can you all actually take a minute to imagine what this would have looked like if these cunts had actually been victims of some sort of refereeing injustice?

They've requested that collum no longer be involved in their matches. In that case id expect most clubs in the league to request Walsh, dallas, Beaton, Ross, collum..........

..you know where I'm going with this.

 

Edited January 4 by vanderark14

[vanderark14]

10 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Who released the offside stills?

This is going to be key. If collum made a mistake and the offside was used as a get out because it was noticed later on then the huns have a point but does it need to be so public? Does it need this drama and a witch hunt of a referee? 

Let's say collum did spot the handball and gave a penalty? What happens if the offside is then spotted. Do Celtic get a meeting with the head of referees and go after collum?

[Toepoke]

And still it rumbles on. Shades of the "Dougie, Dougie" saga from a few years back.

There isn't much chat about Sima's handball on Tuesday. I think Killie should request to have Andrew Dallas not do our games...

 

 

[Squirrelhumper]

Worst VAR/refereeing decision this season was at RP when the ref blew for a foul just as we scored then gave a pen which we missed. 

Had that been during an Old Firm there would have been a meltdown bigger than this. 

In fact, worst VAR decision last season was at RP too when Conscidine nearly caught the ball on the line! 

[JECK]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

And still it rumbles on. Shades of the "Dougie, Dougie" saga from a few years back.

There isn't much chat about Sima's handball on Tuesday. I think Killie should request to have Andrew Dallas not do our games...

 

 

Ha ha ha clear evidence of a disgrace and damming in the extreme for rangers and all those associated with them

[Diamond Scot]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

This is going to be key. If collum made a mistake and the offside was used as a get out because it was noticed later on then the huns have a point but does it need to be so public? Does it need this drama and a witch hunt of a referee? 

Let's say collum did spot the handball and gave a penalty? What happens if the offside is then spotted. Do Celtic get a meeting with the head of referees and go after collum?

I agree. I dont like how Rangers do things, especially what seems to be pandering to the lowest of their support however I dont dont understand the criticism of some on here for them seeking answers.

Every club has had questionable decisions made against them. Some much worse than what might have happened to Rangers last week but its the responsibility of each club to seek answers and fight their case.

The fact that other clubs havent done that much and then Rangers have gone all in should be a criticism of the other clubs, not Rangers.

Its about time the other 10 non OF clubs got together and formed as collective to give their voice more weight. Why this hasnt been done makes me question the motives of the owners.

[duncan II]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

I agree. I dont like how Rangers do things, especially what seems to be pandering to the lowest of their support however I dont dont understand the criticism of some on here for them seeking answers.

Every club has had questionable decisions made against them. Some much worse than what might have happened to Rangers last week but its the responsibility of each club to seek answers and fight their case.

The fact that other clubs havent done that much and then Rangers have gone all in should be a criticism of the other clubs, not Rangers.

Its about time the other 10 non OF clubs got together and formed as collective to give their voice more weight. Why this hasnt been done makes me question the motives of the owners.

The huns must be told to fuck off. They should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. Get them so far to fuck. A disgrace their witch hunt is being enabled by the media. Why are the other clubs not outraged? Every one of them has had decisions go against them much worse than this. It wasn't even a wrong decision! Get them to fuck.

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

I agree. I dont like how Rangers do things, especially what seems to be pandering to the lowest of their support however I dont dont understand the criticism of some on here for them seeking answers.

Every club has had questionable decisions made against them. Some much worse than what might have happened to Rangers last week but its the responsibility of each club to seek answers and fight their case.

The fact that other clubs havent done that much and then Rangers have gone all in should be a criticism of the other clubs, not Rangers.

Its about time the other 10 non OF clubs got together and formed as collective to give their voice more weight. Why this hasnt been done makes me question the motives of the owners.

This is the only part we disagree on. Are you suggesting every club should throw the toys out of the pram and pressure referees in such a public manner?

If so, I think this is totally wrong. No club should ever pressure officials in the manner Rangers have in recent weeks. Private conversations perhaps. 

I used to think being able to hear what refs and VAR is saying is the way forward but now I am not because if a ref said something incorrect or the VAR said something wrong....................we would see an even bigger witch hunt

[Diamond Scot]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

This is the only part we disagree on. Are you suggesting every club should throw the toys out of the pram and pressure referees in such a public manner?

If so, I think this is totally wrong. No club should ever pressure officials in the manner Rangers have in recent weeks. Private conversations perhaps. 

I used to think being able to hear what refs and VAR is saying is the way forward but now I am not because if a ref said something incorrect or the VAR said something wrong....................we would see an even bigger witch hunt

I dont think we are actually in disagreement. I dont agree with the public nature of how Rangers go about things but I do think they are correct to seek answers. 

Its not Rangers concern about wrongful decisions against other clubs, even if in some cases the decisions benefited Rangers. Theres obviously a balancing act. Im not suggesting clubs demand meetings with the SFA for every ref mistake however when its a case where a process hasnt been followed, a blatant inconsistency etc then imo its a clubs responsibility to seek answers.

Ive watched a good few Aberdeen games this season, both domestically and in Europe and can think of at least 3 or 4 cases where id expect them to be demanding written / formal answers.

Calling for refs heads / not to do clubs games etc is totally wrong and is part of the playing to the masses thing thats out of order. 

[Diamond Scot]

3 hours ago, duncan II said:

The huns must be told to fuck off. They should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. Get them so far to fuck. A disgrace their witch hunt is being enabled by the media. Why are the other clubs not outraged? Every one of them has had decisions go against them much worse than this. It wasn't even a wrong decision! Get them to fuck.

You hit the nail on the head. Why are other clubs not outraged? 

Thats not Rangers fault that other clubs just accept bad decisions or incompetence. These clubs should step up their game. 

Again I stress that how Rangers go about things is wrong.

You say the decision isnt even wrong but sometimes its not about the outcome. Its the process to get to the outcome. There is a reason why processes are in place. Checks and balances.

On the face of it the ref and VAR have decided that it wasnt a handball. I understand that VAR made this decision very quickly. Ive yet to hear anybody that doesnt think it was a handball. 30 mins later somebody has released the offside pictures. Whether Sima was offside or not is irrelevent if that wasnt part of the decision making at the time. Even if the outcome eventually might have been no penalty.

Rangers are entitled to ask for clarity. If the ref and VAR dont think it was a penalty then thats something the ref bosses will deal with. Its similar to the disallowed McTominay goal where the ref seemed to award one thing when in fact it was another. Once everything was cleared up then people moved on. Were Scotland wrong to ask for clarity on that?

[Redz]

I (we) spend fukin thousands following our respective teams

These cnuts are simply tying themselves in knots - You guys can decide why

If this cloak and dagger (cheating) pantomime is to continue, I would like to see two things happen, initially

1/ That our collective board of directors stick up for our clubs publicly

2/ If the above serves no purpose, I would want the officials (ref / var) head(s) on a stake, until such time as the rules are clear and applied consistently 

*Whilst I (most of us) do not like the (majority of) huns, FB has a fair point here. I do wonder what the rhetoric (reaction) would be if this was the like of Killie, St Mirren, or Motherwell going gung ho.....