Steve Clarke discussion

[King Of Paisley]

2 hours ago, bossman4 said:

Brilliant achievement from Clarke and the squad, sets us up nicely going into the draw next week and loved his confidence last night in saying 'this group wont need a play-off'

I have been critical of him in the past, mainly after the Euros and the play-off in June, but in the cold light of day, especially in relation to the play-off, we were (and so were Ukraine I may add) shafted a bit with the play-off. I'm convinced had those games been played in March we'd be going to Qatar and so would Ukraine if they had beat us, the Welsh getting 3 months between games was wrong.

The performances this last week have been excellent and showed we can play with a back 4 and dig deep when we need to. As has been mentioned though the change to a 4 has been thrust upon him due to the injuries. The big test comes next year when he has Robbo back fit, how does he deal with that? Will he have the balls to drop him and play KT at left back in a 4? I think a back 3 will work in certain games, away to a top seed for example maybe. Its a great place to be in that's for sure have 2/3 options at each full back position, never mind the depth we have in other areas. 3 games and Billy Gilmour never kicked a ball.  

 

I thought I would never hear myself say this, but I don't think we really missed Robbo in these games. Which tells me the absolute depth and quality we have in these areas now. Its absolutely insane

[mccaughey85]

15 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Where did i say that?

I said the standard of EPL player is higher now than it was back when Calderwood etc played in the EPL.

Kevin Gallagher would get nowhere near an EPL side now, as good a player he was. 

You could apply that logic to the squads of the 70s and 80s. The old first division of the 70s and 80s is not anywhere near the standard of the epl today. Is our squads from the 70s and 80s stronger than todays?

Sport always evolves and gets better. Sports science and nutrition is better and i would hazard a guess coaching is better now as well. Calderwood might have been even better under todays conditions. Either way he was playing in what was considered one the best leagues in the world that was even at that stage full some if the best talent in the world.

If we dont factor in the evolution of sport or football then our best squad will nearly always be the modern day one.

 

 

[ceudmilefailte]

I knew Mclair was rubbish for Scotland that's why I named him. The elite leagues are so much better than other national leagues compared to the 80/90s. I remember Tottenham and getting ardsiles and villa, they were amongst the first players from South America to play here. 

Now all the top South Americans, Africans and Asians play in Europe plus all the European players from lesser nations, Denmark, Sweden, Poland Eastern Europe etc etc. It is 10 times harder to play in the english top flight now

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

No, he was shit for Scotland. Not anywhere near McBurnie level of shit right enough, but at least he could control a ball. He was fantastic at club level though. One of these things that's hard to explain. Similar with Steve Archibald.

Graeme Sharp was IMO the ultimate example of great club player / terrible international. 

 

[duncan II]

8 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Graeme Sharp was IMO the ultimate example of great club player / terrible international. 

 

Sharp was awful for us, as was Archibald. I'll probably get shot down for this but Colin Hendry wasn't some Beckenbauer figure. He was fairly limited. He was blood and guts and had flowing locks but there's some amount of revisionism to portray him as a colossus.

[Orraloon]

1 minute ago, duncan II said:

Sharp was awful for us, as was Archibald. I'll probably get shot down for this but Colin Hendry wasn't some Beckenbauer figure. He was fairly limited. He was blood and guts and had flowing locks but there's some amount of revisionism to portray him as a colossus.

Totally agree with all of that.

[Toepoke]

28 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I knew Mclair was rubbish for Scotland that's why I named him. The elite leagues are so much better than other national leagues compared to the 80/90s. I remember Tottenham and getting ardsiles and villa, they were amongst the first players from South America to play here. 

Now all the top South Americans, Africans and Asians play in Europe plus all the European players from lesser nations, Denmark, Sweden, Poland Eastern Europe etc etc. It is 10 times harder to play in the english top flight now

I read a stat recently on EPL hat-tricks, players from 46 countries have now scored one, more than half outside of Europe. It's changed so much since 1992 when the first Scot scored a Premier League hat-trick (he never got near our squad btw, great bit of trivia...)

[Squirrelhumper]

32 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I knew Mclair was rubbish for Scotland that's why I named him. The elite leagues are so much better than other national leagues compared to the 80/90s. I remember Tottenham and getting ardsiles and villa, they were amongst the first players from South America to play here. 

Now all the top South Americans, Africans and Asians play in Europe plus all the European players from lesser nations, Denmark, Sweden, Poland Eastern Europe etc etc. It is 10 times harder to play in the english top flight now

Agreed. 

[ProudScot]

39 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I knew Mclair was rubbish for Scotland that's why I named him. The elite leagues are so much better than other national leagues compared to the 80/90s. I remember Tottenham and getting ardsiles and villa, they were amongst the first players from South America to play here. 

Now all the top South Americans, Africans and Asians play in Europe plus all the European players from lesser nations, Denmark, Sweden, Poland Eastern Europe etc etc. It is 10 times harder to play in the english top flight now

Yep bang on 

[mccaughey85]

10 minutes ago, duncan II said:

Sharp was awful for us, as was Archibald. I'll probably get shot down for this but Colin Hendry wasn't some Beckenbauer figure. He was fairly limited. He was blood and guts and had flowing locks but there's some amount of revisionism to portray him as a colossus.

For scotland he was. A total of 6 goals was conceded in our 96 and 98 qualifying campaigns. Pretty sure we were the strongest defence in europe during those two campaigns. 

We would love to have a guy of hendrys calibre these days. Our success in the 90s was mostly built on our defence. When you consider that our current squads barely have any epl centre backs then surely a guy who was integral to winning the epl for an unfashionable club like blackburn would be a godsend these days.

 

[Orraloon]

12 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

I read a stat recently on EPL hat-tricks, players from 46 countries have now scored one, more than half outside of Europe. It's changed so much since 1992 when the first Scot scored a Premier League hat-trick (he never got near our squad btw, great bit of trivia...)

It was discussed on here a few years back. I had never even heard of the guy. 😂

[Squirrelhumper]

4 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

It was discussed on here a few years back. I had never even heard of the guy. 😂

Give us a clue....

[Orraloon]

7 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Give us a clue....

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't help. 😂 I think we got loads of clues back then and I was still none the wiser.

One things for sure, I wouldn't do very well in Toepoke's pub quizzes. 😂

[mccaughey85]

41 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I knew Mclair was rubbish for Scotland that's why I named him. The elite leagues are so much better than other national leagues compared to the 80/90s. I remember Tottenham and getting ardsiles and villa, they were amongst the first players from South America to play here. 

Now all the top South Americans, Africans and Asians play in Europe plus all the European players from lesser nations, Denmark, Sweden, Poland Eastern Europe etc etc. It is 10 times harder to play in the english top flight now

I would agree with the 80s and before but by the time the 90s came most of the best players in the world played in the top european leagues. The epl had loads of foreigners by that point. Its probably even harder now but that doesnt change the fact that it was still extremely competitive in the 90s.

If we even had a regular epl centre back these days then maybe i could understand placing them above hendry,gough and calderwood but we dont. We have guys who spend 1 season in the epl and then get relegated. 

 

 

[duncan II]

28 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

For scotland he was. A total of 6 goals was conceded in our 96 and 98 qualifying campaigns. Pretty sure we were the strongest defence in europe during those two campaigns. 

We would love to have a guy of hendrys calibre these days. Our success in the 90s was mostly built on our defence. When you consider that our current squads barely have any epl centre backs then surely a guy who was integral to winning the epl for an unfashionable club like blackburn would be a godsend these days.

 

Just enjoy the Hendry we've got now instead of harking back to a time that never existed. 😀

[mccaughey85]

Lol so we are all in agreement that our greatest squad ever is the current one and all other squads in the past werent as good because the standard of football has risen and its much more competitive.

Fair enough.

 

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, duncan II said:

Just enjoy the Hendry we've got now instead of harking back to a time that never existed. 😀

Lol i love both. Throw in that guy with the cue called stephen and its a hatrick of hendrys i love.

 

[scotlad]

6 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol steady on. This is probably our best squad since 96/98. Its a very long way off our squads of the late 80s and even early 90s.

It has potential to surpass the early 90s imo but the late 80s we had strikers who played for man utd and barca. Even mccoist couldnt get a game at times and he banging in 40 a season. 

The 96 and 98 squads are probably of similar standard imo. Ppl forget we had two excellent centre backs one of which was instrumental in blackburn winning the league. Collins who played for a brilliant monaco side and lambert with dortmund. Gary mccalister won the league with leeds and was one of the best centre mids in the epl. 

I am loving this squad but its still quite weak in areas. Especially strikers and goalkeepers.

With you there. Although good coaching helps, I think the upturn in form and results is mainly down to having better players to choose from. Over the past week Clarke has lost guys from Arsenal, Man United, Liverpool and Everton and barely missed them. Ten years ago we simply didn't have anyone playing at that level, with the exception of Darren Fletcher.

I remember the thing people used to get hung up about in the '90s was our lack of a regular goalscorer, yet McCoist was banging them in for Rangers, Booth and Jess were scoring freely for Aberdeen and Kevin Gallacher regularly got into double figures in the EPL. We don't have any striker who can match that - at the moment - and the goalkeeping situation is a real worry (Craig Gordon's save against Ireland on Saturday was as good as a goal but he surely can't go on much longer).

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol so we are all in agreement that our greatest squad ever is the current one and all other squads in the past werent as good because the standard of football has risen and its much more competitive.

Fair enough.

 

Only person that has said this is the greatest squad ever is, erm, you.

[Squirrelhumper]

29 minutes ago, scotlad said:

 

I remember the thing people used to get hung up about in the '90s was our lack of a regular goalscorer, yet McCoist was banging them in for Rangers, Booth and Jess were scoring freely for Aberdeen and Kevin Gallacher regularly got into double figures in the EPL. We don't have any striker who can match that - at the moment - and the goalkeeping situation is a real worry (Craig Gordon's save against Ireland on Saturday was as good as a goal but he surely can't go on much longer).

Dykes &  McGinn have goalscoring records that are better than the likes of Gallagher or Booth had in a Scotland shirt and no worse than McCoist had for Scotland. 

I'd say we have more goals in our team from all over than we had back then 

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Give us a clue....

He was playing for Middlesbrough. 

 

[King Of Paisley]

6 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

He was playing for Middlesbrough. 

 

John Hendrie

[King Of Paisley]

14 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Dykes &  McGinn have goalscoring records that are better than the likes of Gallagher or Booth had in a Scotland shirt and no worse than McCoist had for Scotland. 

I'd say we have more goals in our team from all over than we had back then 

With regards to your last paragraph, we've been more of a threat at set plays than we have ever been

[er yir macaroon]

3 hours ago, duncan II said:

I'll probably get shot down for this but Colin Hendry wasn't some Beckenbauer figure. He was fairly limited. He was blood and guts and had flowing locks but there's some amount of revisionism to portray him as a colossus.

As much as I respect his contribution for us, the above is true. Blackburn played quite industrial football and he was a player who could clear his lines and dominate the box. He didn’t have pace or particularly good technique, and wasn’t as good as Gough, for example. I wouldn’t swap him for Jack. 

 

[Toepoke]

56 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

John Hendrie

👍