Steve Clarke discussion

[bossman4]

Brilliant achievement from Clarke and the squad, sets us up nicely going into the draw next week and loved his confidence last night in saying 'this group wont need a play-off'

I have been critical of him in the past, mainly after the Euros and the play-off in June, but in the cold light of day, especially in relation to the play-off, we were (and so were Ukraine I may add) shafted a bit with the play-off. I'm convinced had those games been played in March we'd be going to Qatar and so would Ukraine if they had beat us, the Welsh getting 3 months between games was wrong.

The performances this last week have been excellent and showed we can play with a back 4 and dig deep when we need to. As has been mentioned though the change to a 4 has been thrust upon him due to the injuries. The big test comes next year when he has Robbo back fit, how does he deal with that? Will he have the balls to drop him and play KT at left back in a 4? I think a back 3 will work in certain games, away to a top seed for example maybe. Its a great place to be in that's for sure have 2/3 options at each full back position, never mind the depth we have in other areas. 3 games and Billy Gilmour never kicked a ball.  

 

[mccaughey85]

28 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Clarke is doing a good job, although I’m not convinced he would have changed formation without the injuries. No complaints about the way he set out the team, and the players seem to like and respect him. 

This is probably the best squad of players we’ve had since the days of Dalglish, Johnston and Cooper up front, or at least it soon will be. Striker is the main problem, and keeper is the looming one. Other than that, it’s top class and we have the likes of Lowry, Doak and Morrison on the horizon plus a few others. 

Lol steady on. This is probably our best squad since 96/98. Its a very long way off our squads of the late 80s and even early 90s.

It has potential to surpass the early 90s imo but the late 80s we had strikers who played for man utd and barca. Even mccoist couldnt get a game at times and he banging in 40 a season. 

The 96 and 98 squads are probably of similar standard imo. Ppl forget we had two excellent centre backs one of which was instrumental in blackburn winning the league. Collins who played for a brilliant monaco side and lambert with dortmund. Gary mccalister won the league with leeds and was one of the best centre mids in the epl. 

I am loving this squad but its still quite weak in areas. Especially strikers and goalkeepers.

[Squirrelhumper]

5 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol steady on. This is probably our best squad since 96/98. Its a very long way off our squads of the late 80s and even early 90s.

It has potential to surpass the early 90s imo but the late 80s we had strikers who played for man utd and barca. Even mccoist couldnt get a game at times and he banging in 40 a season. 

The 96 and 98 squads are probably of similar standard imo. Ppl forget we had two excellent centre backs one of which was instrumental in blackburn winning the league. Collins who played for a brilliant monaco side and lambert with dortmund. Gary mccalister won the league with leeds and was one of the best centre mids in the epl. 

I am loving this squad but its still quite weak in areas. Especially strikers and goalkeepers.

I'd say in terms of strength, depth and the ability to lose so many big players and still perform, that this is the best squad in my time going to games and im 38.

Better than the 96 or 98 teams IMO.

[er yir macaroon]

16 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol steady on. This is probably our best squad since 96/98. Its a very long way off our squads of the late 80s and even early 90s.

It has potential to surpass the early 90s imo but the late 80s we had strikers who played for man utd and barca. Even mccoist couldnt get a game at times and he banging in 40 a season. 

The 96 and 98 squads are probably of similar standard imo. Ppl forget we had two excellent centre backs one of which was instrumental in blackburn winning the league. Collins who played for a brilliant monaco side and lambert with dortmund. Gary mccalister won the league with leeds and was one of the best centre mids in the epl. 

I am loving this squad but its still quite weak in areas. Especially strikers and goalkeepers.

“Best since” means best of those that came after the “since”. So about 1985 or there abouts. If we had Dalglish and Johnston up front now… 

I’m well aware of the players we had in the 90s and I’m also aware of the variable squad depths of those days. 

[mccaughey85]

Just now, Squirrelhumper said:

I'd say in terms of strength, depth and the ability to lose so many big players and still perform, that this is the best squad in my time going to games and im 38.

Better than the 96 or 98 teams IMO.

Steady on, we got a hard fought draw with ukraine and tbf ukraine had some good chances that they should of taken. We were lucky at times.

Do we have a centre back playing for an epl winning club(hendry)? Do we even have a centre back with years of epl experience(calderwood)?

Do we have a champions league winning centre mid(lambert) or epl winning centre mid(mccalister)?

Thats before we even start to talk about mccoist, gallacher, gough, leighton, goram and collins. Even guys like john spencer(96) neil sullivan(98)were solid epl regulars. 

I am loving this squad at the moment but wether its better than 98 or 96 is debatable. Ppl forget we qualified automatically for world cup 98. We were a strong unit in the late 90s and we had a squad of mostly epl and old firm players at a time when the old firm were much stronger.

I would probably say this squad has the potential to be better as its much younger than those squads especially the 98 squad but currently theres not much in it.

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, er yir macaroon said:

“Best since” means best of those that came after the “since”. So about 1985 or there abouts. If we had Dalglish and Johnston up front now… 

I’m well aware of the players we had in the 90s and I’m also aware of the variable squad depths of those days. 

Your suggesting that this squad is better than the late 80s and 90s?

92 we had mccoist, mcclair as strikers. One was prolific for man utd and the other was winning the golden boot and scoring insane amounts of goals. We even had guys like john spencer, mo johnston and kevin gallacher around those years. I am not wanting to run through the squads in massive detail but these days we rely on guys who cant even score in the english championship and adams has never scored more than 10 in the epl. 

I know we are all happy and excited by our progress recently but its a long way to go before we have squads as strong as our ones in the late 80s early 90s. 

Not even sure our current squads are better than the 98/96 ones.

 

[mccaughey85]

27 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'd say in terms of strength, depth and the ability to lose so many big players and still perform, that this is the best squad in my time going to games and im 38.

Better than the 96 or 98 teams IMO.

You do remember we recently lost to a terrible ireland 4 nil and ukraine 3-1. 

Lol this place is like a yo yo depending on a few results. Lets just keep a bit of perspective, we had a good three games against decent/average opposition but we are not world beaters quite yet.

[Squirrelhumper]

17 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Steady on, we got a hard fought draw with ukraine and tbf ukraine had some good chances that they should of taken. We were lucky at times.

Do we have a centre back playing for an epl winning club(hendry)? Do we even have a centre back with years of epl experience(calderwood)?

Do we have a champions league winning centre mid(lambert) or epl winning centre mid(mccalister)?

Thats before we even start to talk about mccoist, gallacher, gough, leighton, goram and collins. Even guys like john spencer(96) neil sullivan(98)were solid epl regulars. 

I am loving this squad at the moment but wether its better than 98 or 96 is debatable. Ppl forget we qualified automatically for world cup 98. We were a strong unit in the late 90s and we had a squad of mostly epl and old firm players at a time when the old firm were much stronger.

I would probably say this squad has the potential to be better as its much younger than those squads especially the 98 squad but currently theres not much in it.

The EPL Calderwood played in was nowhere near the level of the current EPL. 

[Squirrelhumper]

1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

You do remember we recently lost to a terrible ireland 4 nil and ukraine 3-1. 

Lol this place is like a yo yo depending on a few results. Lets just keep a bit of perspective, we had a good three games against decent/average opposition but we are not world beaters quite yet.

When did we lose to Ireland 4-0?

I can remember the great trams you talk about getting scudded 5-0 away , drawing with an utter hopeless Estonia side, 

Football has changed massively since the 90s. The standard that our EPL players are playing in now is at a higher level. 

[mccaughey85]

3 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

The EPL Calderwood played in was nowhere near the level of the current EPL. 

If we go down that route then the old division 1 in the 80s was like sunday league compared to the epl now. Does that mean our squad today is better than the early 80s. Is dalglish and souness rubbish.

Calderwood was part of the best defence in europe for our 96 and 98 qualifying campaigns. Pretty sure we only conceded 6 goals. 

If your not factoring in the development and improvement of the game then yes this squad is better than all squads that have come before it. Even the 60s 70s and 80s. 

[er yir macaroon]

18 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Your suggesting that this squad is better than the late 80s and 90s?

92 we had mccoist, mcclair as strikers. One was prolific for man utd and the other was winning the golden boot and scoring insane amounts of goals. We even had guys like john spencer, mo johnston and kevin gallacher around those years. I am not wanting to run through the squads in massive detail but these days we rely on guys who cant even score in the english championship and adams has never scored more than 10 in the epl. 

I know we are all happy and excited by our progress recently but its a long way to go before we have squads as strong as our ones in the late 80s early 90s. 

Not even sure our current squads are better than the 98/96 ones.

 

In terms of overall squad depth, best since the mid 80s. Of course many players since then would get in the current first 11. 

[mccaughey85]

5 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

When did we lose to Ireland 4-0?

I can remember the great trams you talk about getting scudded 5-0 away , drawing with an utter hopeless Estonia side, 

Football has changed massively since the 90s. The standard that our EPL players are playing in now is at a higher level. 

We officially lost 3 nil but it clearly should of been 4 nil. 

So this squad is better than every squad that has come before it due to the standard of football being better?

[ceudmilefailte]

11 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

The EPL Calderwood played in was nowhere near the level of the current EPL. 

Well spotted. 

[er yir macaroon]

7 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

When did we lose to Ireland 4-0?

I can remember the great trams you talk about getting scudded 5-0 away , drawing with an utter hopeless Estonia side, 

Football has changed massively since the 90s. The standard that our EPL players are playing in now is at a higher level. 

Agree. Even the mid 80s teams got some doings and under performed on a fairly frequent basis, although undoubtedly we had some tremendous players then (including the three I mention). 

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, er yir macaroon said:

In terms of overall squad depth, best since the mid 80s. Of course many players since then would get in the current first 11. 

Look its nice that we scraped a draw against a decent ukraine side with a depleted squad but that doesnt mean its better than when we had strikers playing for man utd, barca and top flight english clubs. 

You do realise our best striker under clarke plays for qpr in the second flight and barely scores more than 10 goals a season at that level. Only epl striker we have is adams and he has never had a season as good as kevin gallachers best season in 97/98. We even occassionally call up league 1 strikers these days. 

I remember the outrage when john mcginlay got called up in the 90s. The press were saying it was a disgrace that scotland was turning to english second tier strikers. Now thats the norm.

Its nice we have a decent squad again but lets not carried away. Our striking and goalkeeping options are still ridiculously poor in comparison to the 90s. Even our centre backs are nothing like the level we had in the 90s. Our main man cant get a game for club brugge and mckenna is having his first season in the english top flight.

 

[mccaughey85]

10 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Well spotted. 

Eh? So che adams is better than dalglish or mcclair because the english league has gotten much better?

Is mckenna better than colin hendry?

 

 

[ThistleWhistle]

Just looking at the team that played England in Euro 96:

Goram; McKimmie; Hendry; Calderwood; Boyd; Spencer; Collins; McCall; McAllister; McKinlay; Durie

vs Thistle Whistle select 2022:

Gordon; Patterson; Hickey; Hendry; Tierney; Robertson; Gilmour; McGregor; McTominay; McGinn; Adams

 

I'd go with 2022 being just slightly better quality although the 96 bench looks a bit deeper quality wise.   

[ceudmilefailte]

10 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Eh? So che adams is better than dalglish or mcclair because the english league has gotten much better?

Is mckenna better than colin hendry?

 

 

Was Mclair any good for Scotland?

[SamP]

2 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Was Mclair any good for Scotland?

No.  He was good at club level. in fact very good.  But with Scotland it never clicked for him.  I think he scored 1 goal in the time I remember and again going from memory about 15 caps.

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Just looking at the team that played England in Euro 96:

Goram; McKimmie; Hendry; Calderwood; Boyd; Spencer; Collins; McCall; McAllister; McKinlay; Durie

vs Thistle Whistle select 2022:

Gordon; Patterson; Hickey; Hendry; Tierney; Robertson; Gilmour; McGregor; McTominay; McGinn; Adams

 

I'd go with 2022 being just slightly better quality although the 96 bench looks a bit deeper quality wise.   

There isnt much in it but goram was at his peak around then and our centre backs were a world away from the 2022 ones considering tierney isnt a centre back and hendry cant get a game for club brugge.

Our current full backs are much better but thats about it.

Also you have picked out the best possible team from our current squad. I would say mccoist was arguably our number 1 striker around 95/96 and hes much better than adams is. 

Around 95/96 we had 3/4 epl strikers plus mccoist. Now we have 1.

[ParisInAKilt]

Not much utility comparing players from different era’s. 

We’re a good team, stronger in certain areas over others. Still lack a world class attacking midfielder / forward but that’s always been the case unfortunately. 

Rode our luck a few times over the course of the 3 games but that’s also football and we deserved to win the group. 

[mccaughey85]

7 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Was Mclair any good for Scotland?

Going by stats he was poor but We arent arguing their performance levels for scotland. Thats a different debate altogether. Many a top player has been shite for scotland but the fact that we could call upon them is what matters. Our squads from the 80s underperformed but that doesnt mean they werent strong squads on paper. Dalglish was considered to be average for scotland but does that mean hes a weaker player than someone like dykes who has performed above expectation? 

[Orraloon]

39 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Was Mclair any good for Scotland?

No, he was shit for Scotland. Not anywhere near McBurnie level of shit right enough, but at least he could control a ball. He was fantastic at club level though. One of these things that's hard to explain. Similar with Steve Archibald.

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

We officially lost 3 nil but it clearly should of been 4 nil. 

So this squad is better than every squad that has come before it due to the standard of football being better?

Where did i say that?

I said the standard of EPL player is higher now than it was back when Calderwood etc played in the EPL.

Kevin Gallagher would get nowhere near an EPL side now, as good a player he was. 

[daviebee]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Was Mclair any good for Scotland?

He was mainly utterly honking for Scotland. Got 30 caps and 2 goals, the first with the help of a deflection against the CIS in Euro 92 when he was actually the best player on the park!  I thought he'd kick on from that but he reverted to type and only had one tap-in v Estonia at Pittodrie afterwards.  A bit of a mystery why he never turned it on at international level.