The news thread

[Malcolm]

Tax rises, public spending cuts….   Will be painful but the right way forward. We will all have to live with a lower standard of living.

[TDYER63]

6 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Tax rises, public spending cuts….   Will be painful but the right way forward. We will all have to live with a lower standard of living.

So, exactly what has been happening for years ? Cant really remember the last time it wasnt  going  to be ‘a painful time  ’ living in the UK. 

[Malcolm]

8 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

So, exactly what has been happening for years ? Cant really remember the last time it wasnt  going  to be ‘a painful time  ’ living in the UK. 

it’s all relative…. Living in the UK still be better than the slums of Brazil.  The relative prosperity in the Uk has been very high until recent times, but living beyond our means.

[TDYER63]

3 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

it’s all relative…. Living in the UK still be better than the slums of Brazil.  The relative prosperity in the Uk has been very high until recent times, but living beyond our means.

Gee thanks, I am sure everyone feels significantly more grateful now.

Many in the UK have been struggling for the past 2 decades, you might need to look further than your your petrol hedge trimmer to notice right enough 🙂

[Hertsscot]

32 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Tax rises, public spending cuts….   Will be painful but the right way forward. We will all have to live with a lower standard of living.

Normal Tory Government then.

[Malcolm]

12 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Gee thanks, I am sure everyone feels significantly more grateful now.

Many in the UK have been struggling for the past 2 decades, you might need to look further than your your petrol hedge trimmer to notice right enough 🙂

im not suggesting that many are not struggling and haven’t been, but on average relative wealth has risen considerably.  Even anecdotally you can see this… how many families go on at least one holiday a year and have at least one if not two cars.  Go back 50 years and that was not common.

[Malcolm]

14 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Normal Tory Government then.

We are in unprecedented times….   Global pandemic and Putin’s war in Ukraine.   Said just like a Tory minister 😂😂😂

[ErsatzThistle]

Poor Malcolm in his six bedroom house with garden and garage that he always likes to remind us about.

My heart fuckin bleeds for him and his family. Not.

[thplinth]

Jealousy is such a corrosive emotion.

[TDYER63]

54 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

im not suggesting that many are not struggling and haven’t been, but on average relative wealth has risen considerably.  Even anecdotally you can see this… how many families go on at least one holiday a year and have at least one if not two cars.  Go back 50 years and that was not common.

I wouldn’t describe having one holiday a year as very high prosperity. Sure its a tad more prosperous than living in a slum in Brazil but there are pretty unappealing places to live in the UK too.
Of course things are better than 50 years ago. In 1970 things were better than 1920.  Its progression and applies to most countries its not specific to us. 

I cant remember the last time we were not getting told by the Tories  ‘ there is no money, its going to be tough, we need to make tough choices ‘ blah blah blah . However I have yet to meet an impoverished Tory. 

[thplinth]

18 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Of course things are better than 50 years ago. In 1970 things were better than 1920.  Its progression and applies to most countries its not specific to us. 

In a fifty year bubble that might seem inevitable but after the romans left the UK it took us hundreds of years to build roads and buildings to the standards like they left behind. (some might say we still haven't)

Sometimes it is possible to take a real set back.

Given a real war say, the fragility of what you think is civilisation could fall away in weeks, days even.

All it would take is for running water to end. You could survive for a good while without electricity and gas but without running water that would be game over. You would not be able flush a toilet never mind find drinking water. Can you imagine what London would become under those circumstances?

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by thplinth

[fringo]

31 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I wouldn’t describe having one holiday a year as very high prosperity. Sure its a tad more prosperous than living in a slum in Brazil but there are pretty unappealing places to live in the UK too.
Of course things are better than 50 years ago. In 1970 things were better than 1920.  Its progression and applies to most countries its not specific to us. 

I cant remember the last time we were not getting told by the Tories  ‘ there is no money, its going to be tough, we need to make tough choices ‘ blah blah blah . However I have yet to meet an impoverished Tory. 

I concur.

[Malcolm]

47 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I wouldn’t describe having one holiday a year as very high prosperity. Sure its a tad more prosperous than living in a slum in Brazil but there are pretty unappealing places to live in the UK too.
Of course things are better than 50 years ago. In 1970 things were better than 1920.  Its progression and applies to most countries its not specific to us. 

I cant remember the last time we were not getting told by the Tories  ‘ there is no money, its going to be tough, we need to make tough choices ‘ blah blah blah . However I have yet to meet an impoverished Tory. 

that’s a stereotype.  There are lots of working class Tory’s, that come from very little but aspire to do the best they can.  My grandmother was a Tory, worked in a fruit shop, rented a council house but bought it when she could.  sent her daughter to private school, but scraped by.  She had grown up in the depression in leith and believed in education and entrepreneurship. She was married to my grandad who on the other hand was a train driver, labour voter and trade union member 😂.

[TDYER63]

28 minutes ago, thplinth said:

In a fifty year bubble that might seem inevitable but after the romans left the UK it took us hundreds of years to build roads and buildings to the standards like they left behind. (some might say we still haven't)

Sometimes it is possible to take a real set back.

Given a real war say, the fragility of what you think is civilisation could fall away in weeks, days even.

All it would take is for running water to end. You could survive for a good while without electricity and gas but without running water that would be game over. You would not be able flush a toilet never mind find drinking water. Can you imagine what London would become under those circumstances?

 

Yeah,, I realise there could be set backs its not a given things improve , but in general barring major incidents there is gradual progress.
   There has not been many war like obstacles  over the past 50 years to prevent natural progress in the UK. You dont hear many Tories greetin about the financial cost of the Falklands war . 
But I completely agree on how quickly things could deteriorate when deprived of such a basic thing as water. Even having your water cut off for a day creates havoc. So much taken for granted. 

[TDYER63]

1 minute ago, Malcolm said:

that’s a stereotype.  There are lots of working class Tory’s, that come from very little but aspire to do the best they can.  My grandmother was a Tory, worked in a fruit shop, rented a council house but bought it when she could.  sent her daughter to private school, but scraped by.  She had grown up in the depression in leith and believed in education and entrepreneurship. She was married to my grandad who on the other hand was a train driver, labour voter and trade union member 😂.

😂 I can say, hand on heart, I do not know one Tory that is not comfortably off.. I dont mean they are rolling in big 6 bed houses but they are not struggling 😉 

I must be moving in the same small circle Ally Bongo is 😂

[ger intae them]

27 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

that’s a stereotype.  There are lots of working class Tory’s, that come from very little but aspire to do the best they can.  My grandmother was a Tory, worked in a fruit shop, rented a council house but bought it when she could.  sent her daughter to private school, but scraped by.  She had grown up in the depression in leith and believed in education and entrepreneurship. She was married to my grandad who on the other hand was a train driver, labour voter and trade union member 😂.

Good for your gran……. how did she get your mum into the private school, scholarship?

[fringo]

9 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

that’s a stereotype.  There are lots of working class Tory’s, that come from very little but aspire to do the best they can.  My grandmother was a Tory, worked in a fruit shop, rented a council house but bought it when she could.  sent her daughter to private school, but scraped by.  She had grown up in the depression in leith and believed in education and entrepreneurship. She was married to my grandad who on the other hand was a train driver, labour voter and trade union member 😂.

That's not entirely correct. There are some but not lots. Although this changed a little recently in 2019 when many traditional Labour voters in parts of England (many in North East of England I think) voted Tory for first time in generations and created the large Tory majority .

Regarding your grandmother - a good few years back there was a  "working class" deference vote for Tories  (no offence to your grandparents or anyone else) where numerous working class folk voted Tory because they basically thought they were the ruling class and knew best (according to my university studies). Thankfully we are all better informed these days and have incredible access to what's going on if we chose to inform ourselves.

Apart from the recent 2019 "glitch" most Tory voters come from, or are currently in more comfortable financial situations . Where you come from doesn't always reflect where you are now (often in financial terms) and therefore who you vote for. Many people (and I know from personal experience of many of my friends), it's where they are now reflects on which they party they vote for and looking after self interest rather than the country as a whole.

Who knows what's right or wrong and we each have different opinions, but from my personal experience most Tory voters are better off and are more interested in keeping the comfortable status quo. It's no coincidence that they are also No voters for Scottish independence.

[thplinth]

There seems to be resentment of success in a lot of this.

This is essentially how the Marxists seized power. They mobilized the far more numerous economic and societal failures as footsoldiers to overthrow the economic and societal successes. 

Not one of you for one second has enquired if maybe Malcom has worked hard his whole life to enjoy his house... of which he is apparently so rich he has to reopen fireplaces to affordably heat. 

Give Malcom a break. 😀

Edited October 25, 2022 by thplinth

[Malcolm]

2 minutes ago, ger intae them said:

Good for your gran……. how did she get your mum into the private school, scholarship?

I don’t honestly know, I think my grandparents just scraped by to pay for it.  they didn’t have a lot, were careful with money, but always bought well but few items.  Paid rent until they were in their mid 60s then bought their house.

her brother also came from very little, started with small shops, then pubs, then hotels, did reasonably well for himself and ultimately became  director of a football club.  Think she saw that work ethic and entrepreneurship.

 

[Malcolm]

4 minutes ago, thplinth said:

There seems to be resentment of success in a lot of this.

This is essentially how the Marxists seized power. They mobilized the far more numerous economic and societal failures as footsoldiers to overthrow the economic and societal successes. 

Not one of you for one second has enquired if maybe Malcom has worked hard his whole life to enjoy his house... of which he is apparently so rich he has to reopen fireplaces to affordably heat. 

Give Malcom a break. 😀

I am in no way and never have claimed to be well off.  I’m comfortable compared to many but as you point out not so well off that large fuel bills will be painful.  Also as I live on my own, it’s a single income that funds all my housing expenses so I take all the hit, it’s not a dual income household here .

[Toepoke]

Bringing back Cruella as Home Secretary is absolutely shameless/ shameful*

 

*delete as appropriate (or possibly not).

 

 

 

[fringo]

4 minutes ago, thplinth said:

There seems to be resentment of success in a lot of this.

This is essentially how the Marxists seized power. They mobilized the far more numerous economic and societal failures as footsoldiers to overthrow the economic and societal successes. 

Not one of you for one second has enquired if maybe Malcom has worked hard his whole life to enjoy his house... of which he is apparently so rich he has to reopen fireplaces to affordably heat. 

Give Malcom a break. 😀

You obviously didn't read my post or I didn't express it correctly.

Most importantly it's not in anyway criticising Malcom .

I just just disagree on some of his point(s) about the Tory base vote etc and why can't I respond in what (I think) was with reasonable text  based on my experience/opinions ?

Many of my friends have worked hard for and deserved their success so that's not an issue whatsoever. Good on them.

Of course you may not me replying to me in particular in which case I've jumped the gun. So apologies if that is the case. 😀

[fringo]

PS - apologies to Malcolm too if it came across the wrong way. Wasn't my intention.

[thplinth]

fringo that was just a timing thing, I was not replying to you in anyway. 

edit: i've not even read your post yet!

Edited October 25, 2022 by thplinth

[fringo]

2 minutes ago, thplinth said:

fringo that was just a timing thing, I was not replying to you in anyway. 

edit: i've not even read your post yet!

Fair enough. You seem to be busy on so many threads. Do you ever sleep ? 😄