Coronavirus

[thplinth]

By rolling out 'Leaky vaccines' we could be effectively creating a safe space for the virus to mutate and go super 'hot' before ravaging the unvaccinated population (30-40%) who otherwise would have been mostly fine. Then no doubt after that the super hot virus will eventually outpace the vaccines and give the vaccinated (who will likely resemble a dart board by then) a fucking good doing over as well.

In your arrogance Frankenstein you have created a monster... 

Only kidding, I am sure everything will be fine. 

 

[Morrisandmoo]

21 hours ago, phart said:

The source is just a bad actor for instance they retweeted 2 days ago this

 

However

 

They think the vaccines are causing the increase in deaths, hence the leading questions.

Ah right I see. I guess just need to refer to your footnote - if somebody believes 2+2=5 and keeps a closed mind, then no amount of data or logic can be deployed to convince them otherwise. 

[Morrisandmoo]

I remember somebody joking about Russians trying to infiltrate the TAMB and spread misinformation! Is theplinth actually a Russian agent for real 😂

The only good thing is despite all the misinformation and supposed crises of trust and disparity in risk appetite - 90-95% of people in the UK are getting vaccinated. 

Reminds me BBC Reith lecture by Onora O'Neill (which is excellent) that explores the fact that more and more people say they don't trust politicians and doctors and scientists. But when it comes down to it they trust them with their lives. 

 BBC Radio 4 - The Reith Lectures, Onora O'Neill: A Question of Trust: 2002, Spreading Suspicion

[phart]

Selection pressure has been known about for ages, in fact it's been discussed and referenced in this very thread several times regarding vaccines.

 

[phart]

I see the lead scientist on the very study Rogan quotes has came out and said he hasn't understood the study. So that's twice in two pages where information is being presented and the actual lead scientist has had ot come out and explain it isn't saying what they think it is saying.

Joe Rogan is getting this completely wrong,” says Andrew Read, professor of biology and entomology at Pennsylvania State. “He's taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now.”

[phart]

someone hacked or leaked the HART group chats, another "group of experts" and what they we're writing amongst themselves 

These talking points are just anti-vaxx talking points dressed up to fool the gullible.

[thplinth]

Well the thing about Dunning Kruger is you have to really think you are smarter than other people. So who on here is so obviously sure that they really are? Lol. Prime candidate. 

All the folk who are so sure they are smarter are potentially creating a killbox for all the people who know they aren’t. A dunning kruger killing machine.

So obviously I’ll be dead but there will be future threads on here on why Gatorade is not working on their failed crops. I am pretty sure I saw a documentary on YouTube about it and stuff.

[thplinth]

Well the one other thing I have learned especially these last few years is anyone going on about anyone being an agent of Putin is a TOTAL CUNT. Without fail. This post bears no resemblance to any living or dead tamber. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by thplinth

[shaggycoo]

On 8/9/2021 at 5:36 PM, Lamia said:

The Polish women at my work routinely went back to Poland for all their dental and medical requirements pre-pandemic. 

Likewise at our workplace, and the same for a lot of the men too. The feeling is the NHS just don't want to help, just pop a couple of pain killers and off you go. Have to explain they aren't being treated any different though they beg to differ, they do this to all - we are just unfortunate that we don't have an alternative! 

[phart]

This is what parrotting anti-vax nonsense leads too

 

Then trying to twist it round like the vaccinated are endangerig the unvaccinated. Uncritically spreading anti-vaxx talking points during a pandemic is the apex of all that is dumbfuck cuntery.

[Scotty CTA]

Canada now in a fourth wave.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-4th-wave-arrival-1.6136506

[thplinth]

16 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

Canada now in a fourth wave.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-4th-wave-arrival-1.6136506

You been vaccinated / microchipped yet Scotty?  

[thplinth]

Well it is not like the vaccinated are deliberately endangering the lives of the unvaccinated (although reading this thread I am starting to seriously wonder).

No the vaccinated think they are doing the right thing. But it might be in this case they are possibly being let down by "leaky vaccines". (Were they rushed out?)

In which case the vaccinated's good intentions have paved the way to hell. Dunning Kruger style!  You have to see the comedic irony in this surely!

The question here is not pro vaxer or anti vaxer obviously... jeez.

Just are the vaccines 'leaky' by their definition and if so is this contributing to the development of 'hotter' strains as they postulate will happen.

It does look very much to me on the TAMB here like these vaccines fit the description of 'leaky'. (It is not an emotional question and should not have an emotional answer. Thanks)

Lastly if this is true it is much more likely to motivate the unvaccinated to get vaccinated knowing you vaccinated freaks are all out there quietly cooking up some super strain to take us unvaccinated out. Pricks. 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by thplinth

[thplinth]

I wonder what the discussion would have been like on here pre-pandemic (back when people used to post on here) had someone started a thread on the Pharmaceutical Industries behaviour. About their corruption of Doctors to suit their profits. About their corruption of academia to suit their profits. Look at the opiate thing in the USA... it is unreal what they get away with..

And this was their behaviour in 'peacetime'.

Consequently I see these big pharmaceutical companies like I see companies like Philip Morris. No different.

It is all safe until it isn't... and then they cynically and ruthlessly shirk all their responsibilities, dragging it out for decades hoping the victims simply die before they can receive any justice. 

I will probably get vaccinated, mainly to having a gun held to my head on work, travel etc but I don't trust these cocksuckers one little bit quite frankly. Totally can understand why many others feel the same.

So back to my original question - which one of these pishy western available vaccines (if any) is now considered the 'best'? Do we have a front runner at this point? Or all they all leaking like a covid colander. Any new ones getting approved anytime soon?

Edited August 12, 2021 by thplinth

[phart]

 

[Orraloon]

All vaccines "leak". Even the most successful vaccination program of all time, that against smallpox, used vaccines which could be described as "leaky". I'm not sure what the exact definition of "leaky" is in respect to vaccines, though?

The only way to be certain that vaccine escape will not happen is to never use a vaccine in the first place.

[Scotty CTA]

3 hours ago, thplinth said:

You been vaccinated / microchipped yet Scotty?  

I have upgraded to 5G. 

AZ, then Pfizer.

[thplinth]

22 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

I have upgraded to 5G. 

AZ, then Pfizer.

Interesting, the AZ one is one the 'old school' vector vaccines I believe and the pfizer one is one the MRNA jobs. The Sputnik one is a vector one also I think. As is the J&J one (the one jab one).

Did you have any noticeable reactions to either Scotty? Swelling or redness, sore joints, a fever, fatigue, an overwhelming compulsion to obey the government, loss of your eternal soul? 

Edited August 12, 2021 by thplinth

[thplinth]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

All vaccines "leak". Even the most successful vaccination program of all time, that against smallpox, used vaccines which could be described as "leaky". I'm not sure what the exact definition of "leaky" is in respect to vaccines, though?

The only way to be certain that vaccine escape will not happen is to never use a vaccine in the first place.

Well they make a statement in the author summary...

Author Summary

There is a theoretical expectation that some types of vaccines could prompt the evolution of more virulent (“hotter”) pathogens. This idea follows from the notion that natural selection removes pathogen strains that are so “hot” that they kill their hosts and, therefore, themselves. Vaccines that let the hosts survive but do not prevent the spread of the pathogen relax this selection, allowing the evolution of hotter pathogens to occur. This type of vaccine is often called a leaky vaccine. When vaccines prevent transmission, as is the case for nearly all vaccines used in humans, this type of evolution towards increased virulence is blocked. But when vaccines leak, allowing at least some pathogen transmission, they could create the ecological conditions that would allow hot strains to emerge and persist. This theory proved highly controversial when it was first proposed over a decade ago, but here we report experiments with Marek’s disease virus in poultry that show that modern commercial leaky vaccines can have precisely this effect: they allow the onward transmission of strains otherwise too lethal to persist. Thus, the use of leaky vaccines can facilitate the evolution of pathogen strains that put unvaccinated hosts at greater risk of severe disease. The future challenge is to identify whether there are other types of vaccines used in animals and humans that might also generate these evolutionary risks.

 

So I guess like always it will be a matter of degree. Some leaks are so small you can safely ignore others will end up drowning you. But they are clearly not classing all previous human vaccines (nearly) as 'leaky'. 

Hence my question? Are we seeing early signs these vaccines are too leaky. Remember the context was Israel being so heavily vaccinated and yet them seeing a a new spike amongst the already vaccinated etc etc... Could these more extreme variants be the first 'hotter' ones to emerge as a result of the level of leakage being too high? Just asking for a friend.

Edited August 12, 2021 by thplinth

[phart]

Just to point out again the lead author of that study has said

The lead scientist and author of the study is now speaking out against Rogan's claim, saying the podcast host has misconstrued the information to push anti-vaxx theories. Andrew Read spoke to Forbes where he slammed Rogan for spreading misinformation and weaponizing the study. 

"Joe Rogan is getting this completely wrong,” Read told Forbes. “He’s taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now." Read added that the details on study "matter a lot."

"At the moment, the vast majority of the replication is happening in unvaccinated people,” Read added. “You can tell that because the majority of cases in the hospital are unvaccinated individuals.” Read also pointed out that the vast majority of current cases are among those who are not vaccinated, as is the majority of transmission."

Andrew Read concluded, "Rogan is completely wrong trying to deduce anything else."

“It's a bizarre line of logic that some hypothetical possibility down the line would hold back lifesaving medicine now. Especially when the vaccines themselves cut down on the amount of virus circulating in the population.”

“We don't know at the moment how leaky these things are. It's conceivable that they are actually close to non-leaky. I'm amazed how good these mRNA vaccines are. They're incredibly good.”

“I had a physician in England reach out to me on Friday asking me to [clarify] because his patients are using my paper to argue against vaccination.” Calling into question the effectiveness of vaccines was never the intention of his 2015 study. “I am genuinely shocked. I've been doing work for 20 years now on how vaccines might drive the evolution of viruses. There's nothing in any of that 20 years work that argues in favor of withholding lifesaving vaccines. It's just shocking to me.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2021/08/08/joe-rogan-is-getting-this-completely-wrong-says-the-scientist-who-conducted-the-vaccine-study/

A little knowledge mixed with Dunning-kruger is a dangerous thing... especially during a pandemic. Folk are dying in droves due to misinformation. Below is being replicated all around the world. Low information halfwits.

"Francis Goncalves’s brother Shaul, 40, dad Basil, 73, and mum Charmagne, 65, fell ill on the weekend of July 10, after meeting for a meal.

They all died within two weeks of their symptoms starting, with Francis believing they caught the virus from Basil after his dad picked it up in hospital a few days earlier.

Francis, from Cardiff, said his family, who had moved to Portugal, hadn’t been vaccinated as they had been scared by anti-vaxxer misinformation.

He urged people to get vaccinated and not be put off by conspiracy theorists."

[phart]

 

[phart]

 

[Lamia]

Did people always cough or did I just not notice. Everywhere I go people are coughing and some don't even bother covering their mouth 🙄  and it isn't even winter yet! ☹️

 

[tartandon]

7 hours ago, Lamia said:

Did people always cough or did I just not notice. Everywhere I go people are coughing and some don't even bother covering their mouth 🙄  and it isn't even winter yet! ☹️

 

People are generally manky, whether that be coughing everywhere or not washing their hands after going to the toilet.

Because of this mankiness, I've carried hand santiser with me everywhere I go for the last 7/8 years. Since doing this, the number of colds I get has reduced dramaticaaly.

If one good thing were to come out of the pandemic it would be people generally being more considerate, but I'm not holding my breath. I get the impression that all the idiots think they no longer need to wash their hands because they think the pandemic is over. It seems that they never considered basic hygiene pre-covid and nothing will change on that front going forward.

[slasher]

7 hours ago, Lamia said:

Did people always cough or did I just not notice. Everywhere I go people are coughing and some don't even bother covering their mouth 🙄  and it isn't even winter yet! ☹️

 

Your awareness is heightened.......it will pass..........if this is truly over, which , personally I believe it pretty much is.