0Neils40yarder Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 3 hours ago, jackhayes17 said: Marshall Palmer Findlay Cooper Robertson McTominay McGregor Christie Armstrong* Forrest Griffiths *McGinn if fit but unlikely So... Nae Fleck or McBurnie from the top end of the premiership... Or Fraser, who granted hasn't been at last seasons levels, but still a very good player... Or our only centre back option that plays every week in a top league in Europe... ... And you pick, Mcgregor, Forrest and Griffiths... Who are all flat-track bullies... And Findlay because Squirrelhumper reckons he's fast? Honest tae fuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwhitelaw Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) Marshall Palmer Hanley Cooper Robertson McTominay Fleck Fraser Armstrong Christie Griffiths Edited March 3, 2020 by kwhitelaw Edited as I completely forgot about Fleck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 53 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: So... Nae Fleck or McBurnie from the top end of the premiership... Or Fraser, who granted hasn't been at last seasons levels, but still a very good player... Or our only centre back option that plays every week in a top league in Europe... ... And you pick, Mcgregor, Forrest and Griffiths... Who are all flat-track bullies... And Findlay because Squirrelhumper reckons he's fast? Honest tae fuck I realise you want as many English based players in there as you are a EPL fan boy but McBurnie is pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohadeer Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: I realise you want as many English based players in there as you are a EPL fan boy but McBurnie is pish. Here we go again..... That’s not a fair statement, McBurnie wouldn’t be playing at the level he is if that were the case. You may think he shouldn’t be in our starting eleven, or maybe even shouldn’t be in the squad, but to suggest that someone who is achieving what he is is ‘pish’ is clearly ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 He’s not been very good for us so far which is all that really matters. Not sure he’s suited to playing up front himself. To be honest our style of play doesn’t seem to suit most forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, dohadeer said: Here we go again..... That’s not a fair statement, McBurnie wouldn’t be playing at the level he is if that were the case. You may think he shouldn’t be in our starting eleven, or maybe even shouldn’t be in the squad, but to suggest that someone who is achieving what he is is ‘pish’ is clearly ridiculous. Okay i'll rephrase that, he's been utter pish for Scotland any time he's worn the shirt and doesn't seem that arsed about playing for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: He’s not been very good for us so far which is all that really matters. Not sure he’s suited to playing up front himself. To be honest our style of play doesn’t seem to suit most forwards. Or, maybe most of our forwards can't adapt to our style of play? Possibly because most of them are pish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohadeer Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Okay i'll rephrase that, he's been utter pish for Scotland any time he's worn the shirt and doesn't seem that arsed about playing for us. That’s a fairer and more possible statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Or, maybe most of our forwards can't adapt to our style of play? Possibly because most of them are pish? Haha well that does sound reasonable as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohadeer Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Or, maybe most of our forwards can't adapt to our style of play? Possibly because most of them are pish? Playing up front for Scotland is a very difficult and thankless task. A lot of pointless chasing of lost causes is involved. Kenny Miller was as good at it as a team of our level could have wished for, for a lot of years, and even then plenty of our fans didn’t appreciate him. A Scotland striker’s role is certainly not one that should be judged on how many goals they score, as it is about far more than that. Our fans should be a lot more forgiving and patient with our strikers, we know how few we have and who they are, obviously ploughing that lone furrow up front, they are going to have many difficult games and dodgy performances, but that doesn’t mean we should hang them out to dry, or cast them aside, as we don’t have any other options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 The thing about Fleck is that it could (not definitely is, but could) be a matter of the right player in the right role at the right club. It is something we often do when looking at club performances; we expect that players will be able to replicate exactly what they do for their club side in the national team, but it aint necessarily so. Fleck will at absolute best be playing with one of his club teammates (a forward) and Sheffield have excelled this season on the basis of their entire squad working hand in glove together in a system they have worked on all season or over multiple seasons. He will not have any of his fellow midfielders with him and won't have a side as drilled in the same formation and tactics, even if we were to try and adopt them both, which we almost certainly won't. The way Sheffield play maximises Fleck's ability and he is doing wonderfully well in the role he is tasked with carrying out within it, but Scotland almost certainly won't play that way, or in that shape. It could be he is adaptable to multiple systems, of course, but the greater the difference in role the less likely he will be to replicate his club form with exactitude. Ditto anyone else who manages to perform certain roles for their club that we maybe won't be replicating against Israel. Griffiths has been working very well with Edouard. That doesn't mean we should necessarily put him up top with Naismith or with Shankland or with Mcburnie. They are not likely to have the same or even close to the same connection or interplay. So that's why for me he isn't a stick on and why i'd possibly be more inclined to play Mcgregor; I assume Forrest and Christie are likely to play, both of whom mcgregor has massive familiarity with. Armstrong and Griffiths could also play and he has also played a lot with each of them. He and Mctominay have played a number of times together for Scotland, as well. Is Fleck a better footballer than mcgregor on a pure one v one basis? Could well be. He is playing at a higher level and is doing very very well. But he has barely ever played with those guys, whereas Mcgregor knows their game inside out. That familiarity could be the difference between a pass going right into someone's path for a shot on goal and a pass to someone who is making a totally different run. It could be the difference between playing the pass without needing to stop and look, or having to delay and check and allow the opponent a better chance to cut it out or get their first, or the keeper more time to ready themselves or read the play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 6 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said: That's a very simplistic view - he'll not be at Killie past the summer I wouldn't imagine. If the Celtic players in the squad are that good - then why are they not playing in EPL? Why is McKenna still at Aberdeen? Why was Andy Robertson stlll only playing at Hull at 23? If our other options are that good, then why are they playing lower league football down south? IMO there's very little between our centre halves - I was giving a reason why I think Findlay may get the nod ahead of the others as they aren't exactly quick. Tbh I quite like findlay and he maybe should be playing at a higher level but those comparisons are unfair. The celtic players are dominating Scotland and have done reasonably well in Europe beating lazio home and away. Alot of the Scottish celtic players would rather play for celtic than play for a lower half epl club. Plus plenty of celtic players have moved onto play in the epl and they have done well there. Celtic are probably the equivalent of lower half epl team so to be playing for them you have to be around epl level. Mckenna is still at Aberdeen because of two reasons, first is he's probably not good enough to move up a level and two Aberdeen have set a silly price tag on him. Mckenna is probably much like findlay in he will move on to bigger things but I doubt that will ever be the epl tbh. Andy Robertson was playing in the epl at 21 and then English championship for a season then back to the epl before his big move to Liverpool. Not sure how that is in anyway comparable to findlay. Our other centre back options are not very good but I think that Hanley has done relatively well at a high level in the last 6 or so games and Cooper is doing very well at Leeds who are set for promotion and have the best defensive record in the championship. With mckenna being out I think the logical choice Clarke will make might be to go with Cooper and mckenna. I wouldnt mind findlay but I can't see Clarke choosing him to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 4 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said: .. And you pick, Mcgregor, Forrest and Griffiths... Who are all flat-track bullies... And Findlay because Squirrelhumper reckons he's fast? Why is being a bully being used as a negative here? I'd imagine most would argue the toss that we don't have enough of that type of player in our current squad. Not that anyone in their right mind would describe Callum McGregor and James Forrest as a bully mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 8 hours ago, AndyDD said: Nah. Ajer, Jullien and El Ahmed as the 3 central defenders, with Forrest and Hayes as wing backs. You could argue that Forrest and Hayes were full backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 7 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said: I realise you want as many English based players in there as you are a EPL fan boy but McBurnie is pish. The EPL is the highest league our players play in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Tartan_McCole said: Why is being a bully being used as a negative here? I'd imagine most would argue the toss that we don't have enough of that type of player in our current squad. Not that anyone in their right mind would describe Callum McGregor and James Forrest as a bully mind. A flat track bully... Someone who plays at a shitey level because they no they can't be the big man at a decent level ie Celtic players like Scott Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 12 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said: A flat track bully... Someone who plays at a shitey level because they no they can't be the big man at a decent level ie Celtic players like Scott Brown And yet here we are, badly missing that exact type of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 You've lost me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 53 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: You've lost me Our team could do with a bully in the middle of the park (or anywhere really!). We do not have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohadeer Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, Tartan_McCole said: Our team could do with a bully in the middle of the park (or anywhere really!). We do not have one. That’s not what the other poster is referring to. As they explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, Tartan_McCole said: Our team could do with a bully in the middle of the park (or anywhere really!). We do not have one. I'm not spelling it out for you... Again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 21 hours ago, dohadeer said: Playing up front for Scotland is a very difficult and thankless task. A lot of pointless chasing of lost causes is involved. Kenny Miller was as good at it as a team of our level could have wished for, for a lot of years, and even then plenty of our fans didn’t appreciate him. Er, why do it if it's pointless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 50 minutes ago, Tartan_McCole said: Our team could do with a bully in the middle of the park (or anywhere really!). We do not have one. The term comes from cricket and refers to a batsman that scores a lot of runs on good wickets. It's been taken to mean any player or team who performs against inferior opposition but doesn't do it against opposition of similar or superior quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohadeer Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, adamntg said: Er, why do it if it's pointless? Good point. I think I should have said ‘ultimately-pointless.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohadeer Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, aaid said: The term comes from cricket and refers to a batsman that scores a lot of runs on good wickets. It's been taken to mean any player or team who performs against inferior opposition but doesn't do it against opposition of similar or superior quality. Ah, thanks - I assumed that it was a horse racing term, but I still understood the analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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