aaid Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: You don't think scoff mctominay comes close to those 3? Seriously? Ferguson in particular seems to have become a better player since he retired as he was persona non grata for a lot of Scotland fans for years. McTominay is top notch and will get better and better in years to come. Two out of those three have won the Champions League and the other was our most important player for a decade. If Barry Ferguson has become a better player since he retired then it's because people realise how good he was when you see what's come since. Whatever people think of him as an individual, there's no doubting his ability. I'm guessing you didn't see a lot of these guys playing of you think McTominey is better than any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, aaid said: Two out of those three have won the Champions League and the other was our most important player for a decade. If Barry Ferguson has become a better player since he retired then it's because people realise how good he was when you see what's come since. Whatever people think of him as an individual, there's no doubting his ability. I'm guessing you didn't see a lot of these guys playing of you think McTominey is better than any of them. I saw every single one of them. I'm 34. Ferguson was an excellent player, I don't dispute that. His performance at Wembley as a 21 year old was amazing. Mctominay is already performing at a level comparable with Ferguson and has so much room for growth. Remember Ferguson played for Blackburn and Birmingham. Lambert was a good player, personally felt he was a steady Eddie without being outstanding. Fletcher was a cracking player as well, probably the most similar of the 3 to mctominay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blantyre_Braveheart Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 2 hours ago, aaid said: Positions plural. As for centre midfield, not one of our current players come close to Darren Fletcher, Paul Lambert or Barry Ferguson. Oh and Aaron Ramsay is better than anyone we've got. I said shaping into. You are judging them based on their entire career, whereas our current generation are 23-26 McTominay is a similar level to D.Fletcher at the same age. McGinn is around the same age as Lambert when he signed for Motherwell. Fergie started off brilliantly but injuries stunted his progress and he reshaped his game due to the injuries. Aaron Ramsey is a better player and if you played one cm, then fair enough, but he is surrounded by championship/league 1 players and young guys who aren't first choice at their club. I'd rather McGinn, Mctominay and McGregor over Ramsey and 2 championship players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said: I said shaping into. You are judging them based on their entire career, whereas our current generation are 23-26 McTominay is a similar level to D.Fletcher at the same age. McGinn is around the same age as Lambert when he signed for Motherwell. Fergie started off brilliantly but injuries stunted his progress and he reshaped his game due to the injuries. Aaron Ramsey is a better player and if you played one cm, then fair enough, but he is surrounded by championship/league 1 players and young guys who aren't first choice at their club. I'd rather McGinn, Mctominay and McGregor over Ramsey and 2 championship players. First of all, Fletcher played for a Man Utd team that were far superior to the current team. That McTominey is a first pick says as much about the state of Man Utd as it does about him. That's not to suggest he's not worthy of his place but it's a fact he's got no real competition for it. McTominay has recently turned 23. He's played around 65 games for his club and made 12 international appearances. By the time Fletcher turned 23 he'd made around double the number of appearances for Man Utd and around double the caps. He was also vice captain and acted as captain when Ferguson wasn't available. At the age McTominay is now, Fletcher was mufurther advanced, was an established player in a successful team with real competition for his place. McGinn and Lambert is a fairer comparison especially as they both started at St Mirren. It's also fair to say that Lambert was transformed as a player when he moved to Dortmund and played in a completely different role from anything he'd done before. It's also worth pointing out that while he was there, Motherwell finished second and third in the SPL. He was also a bit of late starter at international level but that probably had more to do with the quality of more experienced players playing in his position, in particular McAllister and McStay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 30 minutes ago, aaid said: First of all, Fletcher played for a Man Utd team that were far superior to the current team. That McTominey is a first pick says as much about the state of Man Utd as it does about him. That's not to suggest he's not worthy of his place but it's a fact he's got no real competition for it. McTominay has recently turned 23. He's played around 65 games for his club and made 12 international appearances. By the time Fletcher turned 23 he'd made around double the number of appearances for Man Utd and around double the caps. He was also vice captain and acted as captain when Ferguson wasn't available. At the age McTominay is now, Fletcher was mufurther advanced, was an established player in a successful team with real competition for his place. The 11 times McTominay has played for Man Ut against a top six team they are unbeaten, I seem to remember Fletcher having the same sort of stats but then it was for a far superior Man Utd team. Any way I don't think any one has said he was better than Fletcher but he will be a very big player for us for the next ten years hopefully. Maybe then we can start making comparisons. Think he is still 22, at least for a couple of hours anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Any way I don't think any one has said he was better than Fletcher but he will be a very big player for us for the next ten years hopefully. Maybe then we can start making comparisons. Someone thinks we've got the best players we've had for 20/30 years in multiple positions - note "have", not "might be in the future" and then someone else suggested that CM might be one of those positions and then a couple of people suggested that McTominey was better than Fletcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Barry Ferguson is the last midfielder that we have produced who could dominate, control, dicate a game... I like McTominay a lot, I also like McGinn... But I don't think either of these guys are that type of central midfielder. Also, on the point about Lambert being a 'steady eddie'... At his peak, he was one of the best holding midfielders in world fitba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: Barry Ferguson is the last midfielder that we have produced who could dominate, control, dicate a game... I like McTominay a lot, I also like McGinn... But I don't think either of these guys are that type of central midfielder. Scott Brown, at his peak, definitely had a number of games for Scotland where he controlled the game for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Scott Brown can't pass water... Ferguson was a far superior player to that fuckwit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCTA Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 40 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: Scott Brown, at his peak, definitely had a number of games for Scotland where he controlled the game for us. Ferguson was a much better player than Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 14 hours ago, gonzohiggy said: You are right to be cautious as we are completely unproven against any side of a decent calibre. We do though have a number of players playing at a good level who could actually get better which is quite encouraging. Think back to the days of Craig levein or Burley, we would have loved to have the level of potential that we currently have. Cautious optimism..... We came up way short against Belgium and Russia. And only did decent against Cyprus and Kazakhstan. Its good we have some players doing well in England but until it all comes together for us on a consistent basis I’ll curb any enthusiasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said: Scott Brown, at his peak, definitely had a number of games for Scotland where he controlled the game for us. Against who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Against who? The alt right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeTA Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 7 hours ago, bigfingers said: Can we not tempt back Mr S. Fletcher? Tempt him? We shouldnt need to If he didnt fancy the qualifiers, fuck him for the play offs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElChris04 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I can safely say as a Celtic supporter Barry Ferguson was a far superior player to Scott brown in natural ability without a doubt, Only thing I would argue is brown was a more influential leader, but one thing a cert. I’d love a Barry Ferguson type player in today’s set up. One of the few rangers players I don’t think ever got enough credit for his ability as a player from a young age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said: I don’t know Thought as much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 10 hours ago, aaid said: Positions plural. As for centre midfield, not one of our current players come close to Darren Fletcher, Paul Lambert or Barry Ferguson. Oh and Aaron Ramsay is better than anyone we've got. Mctominay is already coming close to those guys and is already better than the vastly overrated Ferguson. Lambert and fletcher were great players at breaking up play and marking players out of the game. Mcginn and mctominay have so much more to their games and can surpass those two imo. Fletcher played in a great team so he gets alot more respect but mctominay can't be blamed for the mess united are in atm. He's clearly a top midfielder at the the age of 22. Our midfield options imo are just about on par with our options in the mid noughties and they have the potential to be slightly better as they are relatively young guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 hours ago, ElChris04 said: I can safely say as a Celtic supporter Barry Ferguson was a far superior player to Scott brown in natural ability without a doubt, Only thing I would argue is brown was a more influential leader, but one thing a cert. I’d love a Barry Ferguson type player in today’s set up. One of the few rangers players I don’t think ever got enough credit for his ability as a player from a young age. I would say they are on a par, Scott brown is an excellent passer of the ball and can dictate a midfield as well as Ferguson. Ability wise they are the same imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 7 hours ago, aaid said: First of all, Fletcher played for a Man Utd team that were far superior to the current team. That McTominey is a first pick says as much about the state of Man Utd as it does about him. Hmm... Apples and Oranges. As the decades go by, players generally get better, by most metrics. I think McTominay would slot into Fletcher's place in that 'far superior' Manyoo team nae bother. 4 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: Against who? WANKERS! And sent them homeward..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said: I would say they are on a par, Scott brown is an excellent passer of the ball and can dictate a midfield as well as Ferguson. Ability wise they are the same imo. Ferguson was vastly superior to Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 6 hours ago, mccaughey85 said: I would say they are on a par, Scott brown is an excellent passer of the ball and can dictate a midfield as well as Ferguson. Ability wise they are the same imo. I've seen some wild comments on this forum... But this is the winner 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: I've seen some wild comments on this forum... But this is the winner 😂 Why was Barry Ferguson that great, he was bought by the mighty Blackburn when he decided to leave Scotland. He was a good midfielder but he wasn't necessarily better than Scott brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Ferguson was vastly superior to Brown Sorry but he really wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: Why was Barry Ferguson that great, he was bought by the mighty Blackburn when he decided to leave Scotland. He was a good midfielder but he wasn't necessarily better than Scott brown. When Ferguson signed for Blackburn, they'd finished sixth in the EPL in the previous season. Maybe not mighty but certainly one of the better teams in England at the time and far from basket case they've been in more recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, aaid said: When Ferguson signed for Blackburn, they'd finished sixth in the EPL in the previous season. Maybe not mighty but certainly one of the better teams in England at the time and far from basket case they've been in more recent years. They had a good finish that year but they were generally mid table or relegation battlers around this period. Ferguson lasted 2 seasons at the mighty Blackburn before running back home again. Don't get me wrong he was a good player and it could be argued that he was slightly better than brown but there isn't much between them imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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