Scottish players in action 19/20

[romanticscot]

If he gets called up, I won't complain , however one great game and many of you are for calling him up and some suggested starting him. If another player has one great game you guys should be consistent and be behind those players also, and similarily one terrible game,  be for them to be dropped. I want consistency and a good run of form. Take Haaland for example, Norway might not even start a talent like that who has had a season of top success but if they do, he has proven it in three leagues and for a longer period of time. Billy, not even regularly getting into Chelsea's squad, has a  single start and an awesome one at that, a vocal majority and wanting to put him in for the biggest games for Scotland in a decade. In summary, I want to see a run of good games not one.

[Squirrelhumper]

3 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

Billy, not even regularly getting into Chelsea's squad, has a  single start

Well that's lies for starters.

[PASTA Mick]

Any other position (other than left-back maybe) and it's an easy decision.

However, Gilmour is up against some of our better players in McTominay, McGinn, Armstong, Fleck, McGregor and Christie.  Even McLean, Jack and Cairney could be considered.

I think Gilmour has a great chance of getting to a higher standard than all of those but right here, right now, he's not quite ahead of them.

Personally, I'd include him in the squad but wouldn't be starting him against Israel.  By the time we play them again in September, it might be a different story. 

 

[PASTA Mick]

Scotland winger Oli Burke has been placed in isolation for 10 days in Spain after contracting mumps at his La Liga club, Alaves.

[Squirrelhumper]

7 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

Any other position (other than left-back maybe) and it's an easy decision.

However, Gilmour is up against some of our better players in McTominay, McGinn, Armstong, Fleck, McGregor and Christie.  Even McLean, Jack and Cairney could be considered.

I think Gilmour has a great chance of getting to a higher standard than all of those but right here, right now, he's not quite ahead of them.

Personally, I'd include him in the squad but wouldn't be starting him against Israel.  By the time we play them again in September, it might be a different story. 

 

I'd have in the squad for sure.

Don't think many are saying he should start but I think he'd be more than capable of doing so. Fletcher was starting before he was getting a game at Utd.

[PASTA Mick]

Just now, Squirrelhumper said:

I'd have in the squad for sure.

Don't think many are saying he should start but I think he'd be more than capable of doing so. Fletcher was starting before he was getting a game at Utd.

I think the difference between Fletcher and Gilmour is the competition each player had/has for places.  

Don't get me wrong, I won't be upset at all if he did start against Israel.  I do expect to see him in the squad.  

It would be interesting to see who misses out if he is called up.  Maybe an easier decision to make if McGinn doesn't make it.  

[ParisInAKilt]

Least it’s got us excited, this part of the forum hasn’t been this busy for ages when we’ve not had a game 

[mccaughey85]

It's a real shame Gilmour isnt a centre back or a striker. We are seriously looking good in central midfield though. 

A future midfield of

Fraser mctominay Gilmour forrest

                     Mcginn

 

[Squirrelhumper]

14 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

It's a real shame Gilmour isnt a centre back or a striker. We are seriously looking good in central midfield though. 

A future midfield of

Fraser mctominay Gilmour forrest

                     Mcginn

 

TBH, I'm glad he's a midfielder that can control a game.

We don't have one of them either.

[JECK]

The one thing that's come to mind re Gilmour is, once he does eventually break into the first 11 how long will it be before the fans get on his back like Ferguson and Fletcher. These 2 were deemed 2 of our best players yet neither were match winners just damn good centre mids who got plenty of critisim in the dark blue. Gilmour looks like he could be better than both but Im not convinced he's a match winning type player.

[mccaughey85]

3 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

TBH, I'm glad he's a midfielder that can control a game.

We don't have one of them either.

I would say fleck, mctominay and mcgregor can, they maybe haven't done it for Scotland but they have done it for their clubs. 

[Squirrelhumper]

11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I would say fleck, mctominay and mcgregor can, they maybe haven't done it for Scotland but they have done it for their clubs. 

Not the same as the player we saw last night.  You can tell all of the three above are british trained midfielders.

If you never knew last night you would have thought Gilmour had grown up with Spanish/Dutch type training. He rarely gives the ball away and is always looking for it,  even when it's under pressure.

I don't think any of the three above do that.

[andyD]

Very good game for Gilmour, looked very comfortable against a very good midfield; lallana, fabinho, milner.

Looking around, who is really making a case for themselves?
McTominay's become an important player for Man Utd.
Armstrong's regular and scoring for midtable Southampton.
McGregor's in a hot vein fo form in the league.
McGinn's likely to be fit, but only to have played a few minutes.
Fleck is mr consistent.
Christie really showing what a good player he is this season.

It's a tough field to get into!

The thing working for him I think is that he's playing deeper than most of them and we do lack a 2nd number 6. McTominay is one, but armstrong, mcgregor, mcginn and christie are all much better in forward areas than defensive areas. So, to me, it's really Gilmour or Fleck for the 2nd 6.

Fraser left, Christie right and Armstrong or McGregor behind the striker, as it comes too soon for McGinn who would otherwise be there. I'd probably go with Armstrong as there's still big questionmarks over McGregor's ability to play at international level. He's been the invisible man too often now.

So would I start Gilmour? There's certainly a case for it. He's got games against Everton, Villa and Man City before the playoffs. If he's still in the Chelsea 11 and playing to this kind of level then yes, I'd probably start him over Fleck.

[Squirrelhumper]

And I rate all three of them, just think they are different type of midfielders to Gilmour.

Remember being in Alicante seeing Spain pass us off the pitch the first 30 minutes and the sharp passing was unreal. Think we actually cheered kicking the ball out for a throw in!

That's the style of player Gilmour is.

[mccaughey85]

20 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Not the same as the player we saw last night.  You can tell all of the three above are british trained midfielders.

If you never knew last night you would have thought Gilmour had grown up with Spanish/Dutch type training. He rarely gives the ball away and is always looking for it,  even when it's under pressure.

I don't think any of the three above do that.

I would say they are the same. Fleck, mctominay and mcgregor are excellent passers of the ball and just because they are in Britain doesn't mean they can't pass. Epl teams are good at passing the ball and keeping possession. They wouldn't have teams winning the champs league and getting to finals if they were bad. Just because Gilmour played well in a holding role against Liverpool doesn't mean our other midfielders don't have the same attributes as him. Granted Gilmour looks like he could be the best one out of them all in a few years. 

My point was that we don't actually urgently need a centre mid like Gilmour as we have three who already have a similar mould to him. We could of done with him being a centre back or a striker as we have pretty much no massively gifted players coming through in that position and it's been an area we have struggled in. 

Before Gilmour started making first team appearances we probably could of all agreed that we had some serious talent in midfield. 

 

[aaid]

31 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

And I rate all three of them, just think they are different type of midfielders to Gilmour.

Remember being in Alicante seeing Spain pass us off the pitch the first 30 minutes and the sharp passing was unreal. Think we actually cheered kicking the ball out for a throw in!

That's the style of player Gilmour is.

Someone who'll kick the ball out for a throw-in?

Seriously though, he needs players around him who are comfortable enough to receive a quick pass, I'm not sure we have too many of them.    I think Fletcher was unfairly criticised for that at times, playing balls that a team mate at Man Utd would easily have taken.

[ParisInAKilt]

8 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I would say they are the same. Fleck, mctominay and mcgregor are excellent passers of the ball and just because they are in Britain doesn't mean they can't pass. Epl teams are good at passing the ball and keeping possession. They wouldn't have teams winning the champs league and getting to finals if they were bad. Just because Gilmour played well in a holding role against Liverpool doesn't mean our other midfielders don't have the same attributes as him. Granted Gilmour looks like he could be the best one out of them all in a few years. 

My point was that we don't actually urgently need a centre mid like Gilmour as we have three who already have a similar mould to him. We could of done with him being a centre back or a striker as we have pretty much no massively gifted players coming through in that position and it's been an area we have struggled in. 

Before Gilmour started making first team appearances we probably could of all agreed that we had some serious talent in midfield. 

 

We don’t keep the ball very well, especially against the better teams so guys like Gilmour, who could potentially increase how we keep the ball are really important now.  

[scotlad]

52 minutes ago, JECK said:

The one thing that's come to mind re Gilmour is, once he does eventually break into the first 11 how long will it be before the fans get on his back like Ferguson and Fletcher. These 2 were deemed 2 of our best players yet neither were match winners just damn good centre mids who got plenty of critisim in the dark blue. Gilmour looks like he could be better than both but Im not convinced he's a match winning type player.

That's exactly what I was thinking too.  It wasn't all that long ago he was being slated on here for his performance in an under-21 qualifier.

If Gilmour was a striker banging the goals in at a high level, a la Haaland, or even if he was scoring the odd goal at a high level, I don't think there'd be any question about him being in the squad immediately.  But he's a playmaker, and with Scotland he'd be passing the ball to players who, in the main, won't be as good as the ones he'd passing to for Chelsea. 

Behind him there would be a defence that is, let's face it, dugmeat, but it wouldn't be the substandard players getting criticised, it'd be the wonderkid from Chelsea because he wasn't winning games singled handedly.

However, you have to have a strong personality to get to the level he's at already (Lampard said something about him being big on character) and it'd be absurd not to pick him just because there are deficiencies in other areas of the team.  Clarke's an experienced coach, I'll trust his judgement on whether he's ready or not.

[Squirrelhumper]

22 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I would say they are the same. Fleck, mctominay and mcgregor are excellent passers of the ball and just because they are in Britain doesn't mean they can't pass. Epl teams are good at passing the ball and keeping possession. They wouldn't have teams winning the champs league and getting to finals if they were bad. Just because Gilmour played well in a holding role against Liverpool doesn't mean our other midfielders don't have the same attributes as him. Granted Gilmour looks like he could be the best one out of them all in a few years. 

My point was that we don't actually urgently need a centre mid like Gilmour as we have three who already have a similar mould to him. We could of done with him being a centre back or a striker as we have pretty much no massively gifted players coming through in that position and it's been an area we have struggled in. 

Before Gilmour started making first team appearances we probably could of all agreed that we had some serious talent in midfield. 

 

We urgently need one that can control a game, control the tempo and take the ball under pressure.

None of those three can do that.

 

[mccaughey85]

6 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

We urgently need one that can control a game, control the tempo and take the ball under pressure.

None of those three can do that.

 

I would say those three do that job at their club albeit Gilmour looks like he will be the best at it and he's clearly got some skills that will set him apart. Mctominay has the exact same job that Gilmour had last night but at man United. Fleck does the same job as well at Sheffield United, same with mcgregor at celtic. As good as it is having Gilmour coming through we defo have players of a similar mould already imo. 

[mccaughey85]

Also we shouldn't over hype the lad, plenty of young players have had a good game against top opposition and then faded out over the years. Chelsea had josh mceachran who played well in a fair few games for them and is now playing in the English championship. Gilmour needs to back this performance up with some more before we should start getting too excited. 

[SWMM82]

2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

It's a real shame Gilmour isnt a centre back or a striker. We are seriously looking good in central midfield though. 

A future midfield of

Fraser mctominay Gilmour forrest

                     Mcginn

 

This is a bold statement I know, but Leon King has the ability and potential to reach the same heights in the game as Gilmour.... a top top prospect at centre back. A lot of promise in his partnership with Liam Morrison.

The striking situation is a problem though.... some good footballers coming through in that position.. Mebude, Hornby etc. but no real “natural” strikers. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by SWMM82

[Squirrelhumper]

Just now, SWMM82 said:

This is a bold statement I know, but Leon King has the ability and potential to reach the same heights in the game as Gilmour.... a top top prospect at centre back.

 

Hopefully he's away from Rangers ASAP then.

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

1 hour ago, SWMM82 said:

The striking situation is a problem though.... some good footballers coming through in that position.. Mebude, Hornby etc. but no real “natural” strikers. 

Striker situation isn't a bother if you have goalscoring midfielders. It's defence that still worries me

[ceudmilefailte]

8 hours ago, killiefaetheferry said:

I’m loathe to get started on this as it’s the one issue I get a bit wound up about on here. We have been utter push for decades and I’m sick fed up of seeing other small counties playing promising teenagers. Georgia away anyone? Why do we have to wait until a standout teenager ‘proves’ himself? If he’s good enough for the Chelsea squad he’s good enough to start for us.

What promising teenagers should we have played? Tierney and Burke both did, just leaves Ryan Gauld as far as I can see.

Any other stand out teenagers over the last few years? Maybe Gauld should have been in a squad or two but you can hardly say the same about the recent buzz name on here Fraser Hornby for example.