ParisInAKilt Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 hour ago, bazmidd said: How high a quality of Midfielder are we talking here exactly? If you are talking the very highest as in the best the Champions League has to offer then no they re not of that quality just yet. They are the level below that though, they have the quality to compete with the best Midfielders in the game, as they are proving this season, and have proved certainly in McTominay’s case before. Not very high quality as was originally suggested. Think McTominay has the potential to compete at a higher level but not sure about McGinn and definitely not for Fleck. Being average EPL midfielders is fine but it’s not the level below the highest quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazmidd Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Not very high quality as was originally suggested. Think McTominay has the potential to compete at a higher level but not sure about McGinn and definitely not for Fleck. Being average EPL midfielders is fine but it’s not the level below the highest quality. You are all over the shop here mate. My question was in relation to what quality of Midfielders you are comparing them against? In my eyes the only level higher than EPL is Champions League, and I mean the top clubs in the Champions League who reach knockout stages regularly. Liverpool are the Champions League winners, Spurs runners up, Fleck and McGinn were outstanding against these clubs. These guys are quite clearly playing above average this season for their clubs. They are 3 of the best performing Midfielders in the league and competing and performing against the highest quality of Midfielders there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, bazmidd said: You are all over the shop here mate. My question was in relation to what quality of Midfielders you are comparing them against? In my eyes the only level higher than EPL is Champions League, and I mean the top clubs in the Champions League who reach knockout stages regularly. Liverpool are the Champions League winners, Spurs runners up, Fleck and McGinn were outstanding against these clubs. These guys are quite clearly playing above average this season for their clubs. They are 3 of the best performing Midfielders in the league and competing and performing against the highest quality of Midfielders there is. I don’t think I am. Maybe we just have different ideas of what a quality midfielder is and how you define one. Having a good game against spurs doesn’t make you a quality midfielder. Not unless you do it season after season and then move onto a higher level including for Scotland against teams like Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 20 hours ago, ElChris04 said: Fleck is a good player. Was impressed when he came on against Kazakhstan and put that lovely through ball to Taylor that led to the goal. It’s a positive but difficult decision for Clarke. Here’s hoping all our players stay in from since it is still 4 months away and who knows what form and players will breakthrough by then. Just one thing for sure our midfield is looking very tidy Indeed. Actually scrub just the Christie love, Greg Taylor is also a player I really like ever since I watched him in the Toulon tournament in 2017. Disappointing he hasn't started much for Celtic so far, no minutes so far in the europa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 6 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: The lower half of the EPL for half a season isn’t the highest level It's pretty good compared to Norway I'd counter. They called up for their last squad in midfield: Iver Fossum- plays for Aab in Denmark Frederik Ulvestad- was briefly at Burnley, now plays for Djurgarden. Sander Berg- Seems to be highly rated. At Genk Markus Henriksen- Been at Hull last 3 years Mats Moller Daehli- At St Paul in Bundesliga 2. Flopped at Cardiff. Morten Thorsby- Signed for Sampdoria in the summer, just the one game so far. Stefan Johansen was injured. Was decent at Celtic and done well at Fulham although like Cairney he struggled to make an impact in the prem. Of course Odegaard was injured and he will be world class within next two years given the form he's showed for Real Sociedad so far but that's still just one player in a group of 7. That could be the likely final opponent. I get Scotland don't have the world class players of 70s and 80s and battle hardened ones of the 90s but I do wonder sometimes which national teams people are comparing to when they deride parts of the squad. Do people just look at Wales, see Bale and Ramsey and ignore all the other championship/lower level players in the squad. Same for the Ireland teams. Difference is these nations have players who'll always turn up unless they have broken bones so they can properly build systems and team spirit, more of a problem at the Scotland camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: It's pretty good compared to Norway I'd counter. They called up for their last squad in midfield: Iver Fossum- plays for Aab in Denmark Frederik Ulvestad- was briefly at Burnley, now plays for Djurgarden. Sander Berg- Seems to be highly rated. At Genk Markus Henriksen- Been at Hull last 3 years Mats Moller Daehli- At St Paul in Bundesliga 2. Flopped at Cardiff. Morten Thorsby- Signed for Sampdoria in the summer, just the one game so far. Stefan Johansen was injured. Was decent at Celtic and done well at Fulham although like Cairney he struggled to make an impact in the prem. Of course Odegaard was injured and he will be world class within next two years given the form he's showed for Real Sociedad so far but that's still just one player in a group of 7. That could be the likely final opponent. I get Scotland don't have the world class players of 70s and 80s and battle hardened ones of the 90s but I do wonder sometimes which national teams people are comparing to when they deride parts of the squad. Do people just look at Wales, see Bale and Ramsey and ignore all the other championship/lower level players in the squad. Same for the Ireland teams. Difference is these nations have players who'll always turn up unless they have broken bones so they can properly build systems and team spirit, more of a problem at the Scotland camp. The teams that qualify ahead of us. There’s been quite a few over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Liam Cooper given man of the match against Reading last night. Played left hand side of a back three. Perhaps it's time to discuss three at the back, possibly a good idea if we moved Robertson into central midfield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Liam Cooper given man of the match against Reading last night. Played left hand side of a back three. Perhaps it's time to discuss three at the back, possibly a good idea if we moved Robertson into central midfield? Totally agree, that's a fresh and brand new idea. It could be revolutionary 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Liam Cooper given man of the match against Reading last night. Played left hand side of a back three. Perhaps it's time to discuss three at the back, possibly a good idea if we moved Robertson into central midfield? Definitely. If it worked in one game for Leeds, we should definitely do it, preferably in a competitive game first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Tartan Chris said: It's pretty good compared to Norway I'd counter. They called up for their last squad in midfield: Iver Fossum- plays for Aab in Denmark Frederik Ulvestad- was briefly at Burnley, now plays for Djurgarden. Sander Berg- Seems to be highly rated. At Genk Markus Henriksen- Been at Hull last 3 years Mats Moller Daehli- At St Paul in Bundesliga 2. Flopped at Cardiff. Morten Thorsby- Signed for Sampdoria in the summer, just the one game so far. Stefan Johansen was injured. Was decent at Celtic and done well at Fulham although like Cairney he struggled to make an impact in the prem. Of course Odegaard was injured and he will be world class within next two years given the form he's showed for Real Sociedad so far but that's still just one player in a group of 7. That could be the likely final opponent. I get Scotland don't have the world class players of 70s and 80s and battle hardened ones of the 90s but I do wonder sometimes which national teams people are comparing to when they deride parts of the squad. Do people just look at Wales, see Bale and Ramsey and ignore all the other championship/lower level players in the squad. Same for the Ireland teams. Difference is these nations have players who'll always turn up unless they have broken bones so they can properly build systems and team spirit, more of a problem at the Scotland camp. I think that we probably do have a stronger midfield than Norway. You also missed out Mohamed Elyounoussi, who is a cracking player. It their attack v our defence which worries me the most. King and Haland will terrorise them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazmidd Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 43 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said: I think that we probably do have a stronger midfield than Norway. You also missed out Mohamed Elyounoussi, who is a cracking player. It their attack v our defence which worries me the most. King and Haland will terrorise them. Okay but what is their defence like? Is Ajaer the best they have got? He is a good player but not a great player. Our Attackers are capable of causing them problems too. We should just go for the jugular against them... If it is them, and if we make it to the final... Lol one step at a time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 18 hours ago, Tartan Chris said: It's pretty good compared to Norway I'd counter. They called up for their last squad in midfield: Iver Fossum- plays for Aab in Denmark Frederik Ulvestad- was briefly at Burnley, now plays for Djurgarden. Sander Berg- Seems to be highly rated. At Genk Markus Henriksen- Been at Hull last 3 years Mats Moller Daehli- At St Paul in Bundesliga 2. Flopped at Cardiff. Morten Thorsby- Signed for Sampdoria in the summer, just the one game so far. Stefan Johansen was injured. Was decent at Celtic and done well at Fulham although like Cairney he struggled to make an impact in the prem. Of course Odegaard was injured and he will be world class within next two years given the form he's showed for Real Sociedad so far but that's still just one player in a group of 7. That could be the likely final opponent. I get Scotland don't have the world class players of 70s and 80s and battle hardened ones of the 90s but I do wonder sometimes which national teams people are comparing to when they deride parts of the squad. Do people just look at Wales, see Bale and Ramsey and ignore all the other championship/lower level players in the squad. Same for the Ireland teams. Difference is these nations have players who'll always turn up unless they have broken bones so they can properly build systems and team spirit, more of a problem at the Scotland camp. Nah I’d say the difference is other teams have good players and a good manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Robertson should no longer be captain John Mcginn should be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 21 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: The teams that qualify ahead of us. There’s been quite a few over the years. Many teams that qualify are tight knit and tough to break down, Scotland were exactly this in the 90s after all. That dosen't mean there's little quality. To me it's the strongest selection of midfielders and wide players since then but obvious issues upfront and in defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: Many teams that qualify are tight knit and tough to break down, Scotland were exactly this in the 90s after all. That dosen't mean there's little quality. To me it's the strongest selection of midfielders and wide players since then but obvious issues upfront and in defence. Aye not sure I agree, McGinn and McTominay are decent players, same with Fraser and Forrest but that’s about it at the moment. We lack genuine quality in midfield and have done for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 50 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Aye not sure I agree, McGinn and McTominay are decent players, same with Fraser and Forrest but that’s about it at the moment. We lack genuine quality in midfield and have done for years. Lambert, Ferguson, Fletcher, Brown...it's been our strongest area for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said: Lambert, Ferguson, Fletcher, Brown...it's been our strongest area for a long time. All good players sure. Lambert especially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said: Aye not sure I agree, McGinn and McTominay are decent players, same with Fraser and Forrest but that’s about it at the moment. We lack genuine quality in midfield and have done for years. I think mcginn and mctominay are way more than decent. Our midfield is and has always been strong. Most countries would love to have the midfielders we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said: I think mcginn and mctominay are way more than decent. Our midfield is and has always been strong. Most countries would love to have the midfielders we have. Don’t agree. If they were more than decent they’d play for better teams, they might still do but at the moment decent in an international sense is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blantyre_Braveheart Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 10 hours ago, bazmidd said: Okay but what is their defence like? Is Ajaer the best they have got? He is a good player but not a great player. Our Attackers are capable of causing them problems too. We should just go for the jugular against them... If it is them, and if we make it to the final... Lol one step at a time At CB when fit they have Ajer and Nordtveit at Hoffenheim (ex arsenal very good centre half), the RB from olympiacos is their Captain (his contract is up this season and he will end up a good team) and I think their left back is Merling from Rosenberg (not sure though), their Goalkeeper while 35/36 was one of the top keepers in the bundesliga last year. Outside of LB they blow us out of the water in first team defence/goalkeeper, a few injuries though and the quality will noticeably drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Don’t agree. If they were more than decent they’d play for better teams, they might still do but at the moment decent in an international sense is fair. Who are you comparing us to in an international sense. Ireland, Norway, Israel etc all have worse midfielders than us. I am happy to accept that our cbs and strikers are not any good but trying to claim our midfielders are not good enough for international football is rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Just now, mccaughey85 said: Who are you comparing us to in an international sense. Ireland, Norway, Israel etc all have worse midfielders than us. I am happy to accept that our cbs and strikers are not any good but trying to claim our midfielders are not good enough for international football is rubbish. Where have I claimed that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Where have I claimed that? You claimed that our midfielders are only decent. Most countries would love to have our options centre midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said: You claimed that our midfielders are only decent. Most countries would love to have our options centre midfield. They are only decent. Didn’t you see the Belgium and Russia games? Well they can only play for us so that’s a bit of a meaningless statement unless you’ve quotes from other countries managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 We haven't had a midfielder capable of dominating and dictating a match since Barry Ferguson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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