bazmidd

I don't know how you can say I am clutching at straws when you are pulling Scott Bain out the bag lol Brophy is the same standard as Scott Bain, Greg Taylor a better standard and Kris Boyd was an even higher standard than Scott Bain is. I don't see how all the blame can be pinned on the SFA. As has been discussed already they don't run the Scottish Leagues so they are not in a position to enforce any rules that would force clubs to develop more youth players. The SFA have made efforts in the last 10 years starting with introducing a a full time position of performance director, a position that is still in place with Malky MacKay just now. It is the performance directors job to overlook all aspects of youth development and play a pivotal role in the Performance Schools which is a youth development initiative the SFA have introduced and overseen. The most recent initiative is Project Brave which whether you like what is in those plans or not is another effort from the SFA at improving youth development in Scotland. To me the only ones attempting to bring everyone together on this is the SFA but they seem to be coming up against a difference of opinion on the way forward for youth development in Scotland from certain clubs. The clubs may be right who is to say they are wrong or the SFA may be right, I don't know, but everyone has to start pulling together in the right direction one way or another. The root problem is far too much self interest at clubs which although understandable at times when it comes down to budgets etc it has held back the SFA from pushing our youth structure to where it wants it to be. They continually talk of creating elite level players but the only way that will happen is if our young players get elite level coaching and opportunities. Do our clubs give them this?

O'Donnell didn't start at Celtic, he was still an Amateur at 16 and 17 playing for Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers in the Caledonian league, so he wasn't brought through an academy at any club. He was then scouted by Aberdeen who picked him up, then Celtic scouted him afterwards and picked him up from Aberdeen.

It's funny as well that from the first batch of players that the Performance schools have produced, there actually does appear to be a very good player come through them in Billy Gilmour. If ever there was a reason to keep them open it is surely the fact we have one genuine top talent that has come through from the very first in take of performance schools. One top player from each intake would be fantastic! But only the SFA would throw the schools out the window just as we're seeing the first shoots of their labour.

I think you are also being selective in choosing to read the parts of my post you want to read and ignoring the rest. Firstly I never once stated Dundee Utd, Hamilton, Motherwell, Kilmarnock have or should ever have to produce top level players. I actually said the players they have managed to produce on their respective budgets are decent. They have produced a decent standard of player for Scotland over the last 10 to 15 years. It is the top clubs Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs I expect more from and the very top clubs Celtic and Rangers where I expect the top players to come from. Celtic and Rangers have produced one player in the last 10 to 15 years that might be top level and that is Tierney and even he isn't proven yet. So no I am not being harsh on them at all. They have the biggest budgets the best facilities and can cherry pick the best young players and the only potentially real top level player they have produced between them in the last 15 years is Kieran Tierney. Not good enough. Secondly to answer your question in the last say 10 to 15 years Dundee Utd have produced Stuart Armstrong (EPL) , John Souttar and Johnny Russell, Motherwell James Mcfadden (EPL) and Stephen Pearson (EPL) Kilmarnock produced Kris Boyd, Stevie Naismith (EPL) and now Greg Taylor, Hamilton James McArthur (EPL) and Eammon Brophy. Aberdeen have produced one maybe two players of note since Eoin Jess and that is Ryan Fraser. (EPL) Scott McKenna granted has good potential. So my point still stands regarding Aberdeen that as one of our biggest clubs they are not producing as many players as a club of their size and stature should be. Yes they are doing a better job than Hearts and Hibs who I see as equal in size, but are Aberdeen producing more players than the smaller clubs I have mentioned, sorry but no they aren't. If you honestly think Ryan Fraser, Scott McKenna and Scott Bain is good enough from Aberdeen over the last 10 to 15 years then fine but I don't think it is. Lastly Andy Robertson played for Celtic Boys club at 15 years old like thousands of other young boys he trained sporadically with them a few nights a week at Pro youth level. He was never offered a contract to join the Celtic Academy. He never came through the Celtic Academy.

Ok who are all these players? Most recent starting line up v Belgium.. Marshall - Celtic, O'Donnell - Amateurs, Mulgrew - Celtic, Cooper - Hull, Robertson - Queens Park, Snodgrass - Livingston, McLean - St Mirren, McTominay - Man Utd, McGregor - Celtic, Christie - Inverness, Phillips - Wycombe Versus Russia Fraser - Aberdeen for Snodgrass, McGinn - St Mirren for McLean, Forrest - Celtic for Christie, McBurnie - Bradford for Phillips. So we have an almighty 4 from Celtic, the biggest club in Scotland, the best youth system in Scotland, the pick of young talent in Scotland and they can muster 4, and not one of those four would get into any top side in Europe, probably not even a top ten side in England, not good enough for a club the size of Celtic. Then we have 1 from Aberdeen. 0 from Hibs, 0 from Hearts and 0 from Rangers. 0 from three of the biggest clubs in Scotland and one of those clubs, Rangers are as big as Celtic, a global club with a worldwide fan base with one of the largest budgets and best training facilities in Scotland and able to cherry pick the best young talent in Scotland and they have produced zero players for the current national side. It is pitiful.

A counter argument would be productive.... Or are simple comments as much as a simple mind can muster

Well there can actually, there can be a rule to enforce a certain amount of homegrown players in a squad. It has already been brought into England. I actually wrote a post on this on another thread a while ago, it is something we should implement on clubs here. Do a quick Google search mate, homegrown player rules, and it will come up right away. It is a round about way of forcing clubs to have homegrown players in their squads

Pretty much bang on the money, I would not for a second tar every club with the same brush, clubs like Motherwell, Kilmarnock Dundee Utd etc have all done their bit in recent years. They tend to produce a decent standard of player for the size of their clubs. It is our biggest clubs that are the problem. I am pointing the finger of blame here mostly at Rangers and Celtic here but Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs haven't covered themselves in glory either. Rangers have produced no one since Alan Hutton, not one player. That is a disgrace. Celtic have produced Forrest, McGregor, Tierney, but it can be argued only Tierney is the truly top class player they have produced since bloody Charlie Nicholas!! They have done nowhere near enough to produce top class players. And by top class I mean the standard the likes of Ajax can produce not a couple o f players who can turn it on against St Johnstone and Hamilton. Hearts Hibs and Aberdeen are the next biggest clubs, not since Craig Gordon have they produced one player of real note between them. Couple of decent players here and there but not nearly enough. Hearts are full of journeymen at the minute, has a decent player come out of Hibs since the days of O'connor and Riordan, even McGinn came from St Mirren. Aberdeen, christ they still laud Eoin Jess as a symbol of their commitment to youth. It is Hamilton, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd even St Mirren currently that have done their bit for the national team in recent years, these clubs probably produce more players than expected for the budgets they work with, whilst the big clubs have produced who in the last 5 years... Aberdeen - Fraser, McKenna, Celtic - Forrest, Tierney, McGregor, Hearts -? Hibs -?, Rangers -? Not good enough

He really is a terrible footballer though eh, remember watching him swan about for the first time playing for Scotland u21s at Tynecastle against Macedonia and he was absolutely howling. Struts about like a peacock with the touch of an angry mule

😂😂 Hearts or Motherwell! what exactly brought you to that conclusion! The superior strength of the SPL to the Belgian top tier or the fact our clubs have excelled in Europe in the last few years! Just because a team has a name you can't pronounce doesn't mean they are worse than the absolute guff we have in Scotland. Our league is a standard below even Belgium now unfortunately and the sooner people realise this and realise where we are on the footballing landscape the better

I actually didn't realise just how many players had come through the performance schools in such a short space of time. It is literally like a conveyor belt of talent which starts with Billy Gilmour at the top and filters all the way down the levels in Scotland. These schools have to be given another 5 years at least to see what sort of players we end up with. The amount of players being snapped up by top clubs after they are finished at the performance school is great and that is exactly where they need to go, straight to some of the best academy's out there. That is the only way we will ever develop top top level players as the academy's we have in Scotland are nowhere near it absolutely nowhere near it. Clubs in Scotland produce exactly the calibre of player we are seeing play for Scotland right now, if the clubs don't aspire to raise their standards then our young players, like Billy Gilmour have to raise their own standards and aspire to be the best by moving down south. Even in Billy's own words he said at Rangers, he had to aspire to be the best at the club, at Chelsea he has to aspire to be the best in the world.

Plans to axe SFA academies are ridiculous as list of talent proves - Waddell https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-grassroots-review-power-scottish-20064153#ICID=Android_DailyRecordNewsApp_AppShare

To be fair to Gordon Strachan I do remember him integrating younger players at different stages during his time in charge. Just little tasters of the squad here and there. Ryan Gauld was called up at Dundee Utd, John McGinn when he was still young playing in the Championship for Hibs. Andy Robertson as well at Dundee Utd. Even Stevie May at St Johnstone. On the other hand though he very rarely took the plunge and fully trusted them, though to be fair it was a hard call as we weren't too far away from being a decent team at the time. Although he gave them a little taste of it, it still took him far to long to give the likes of Robertson, McGinn even Ryan Fraser etc a regular run of games even when they were playing very well for their clubs. There always seemed to be large gaps between the little tasters Strachan gave our better U21 players and then they became kind of stuck in no man's land between eventually being too old for the U21s and not trusted enough to be picked ahead of Strachans regular old guards. The result now is we have a team with an average age in the early 20s with very little international experience between them and pretty much learning on the job

This is exactly what we are crying out for in there someone who can sit back and basically just defend, pretty much as a 3rd centre back but slightly more advanced. We need to protect that defence. Mulgrew is getting on a bit though and his mobility could be questioned. I'd personally go for McCrorie if he continues to play well for Portsmouth. Every time he did that job for Rangers he played brilliantly. He is actually really good at doing that exact job you are speaking about.

I'm sure that option to buy works the same way as McCrories though it is only set in stone if Everton or Rangers choose to sell, basically just gives the Pompey or this Belgian side first chance to sign them should Everton or Rangers choose to sell. Anyway from what I have seen Hornby looks talented, don't think he's a fantastic goal scorer, even though he banged in a few in the last U21 campaign, but he is a great hold up player, great touch and strong also has a bit pace. Good talent better than any young striker we have in the Scottish leagues