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mentalist

Is getting gubbed in the Nations League our best chance of qualifying for the next World Cup?

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Listen I'm not saying we should go out to lose these games but.....If we finish bottom of the group we are relegated for the next edition of the Nations League, that would put us in with the worst sides in Europe. The overall winner of that bunch would qualify for the World Cup, qualifying in the traditional way would either mean topping the group (no chance) or finishing second and getting through a play-off (pretty unlikely).  If we did finish bottom this time there's still a chance to qualify for Euro 2020 by finishing 2nd in the traditional group stage, difficult but easier than having to win a play-off as well. OK losing games would drop the ranking for that group stage but so does arranging games with Holland, Mexico, Peru, Belgium and probably Portugal. 

Even if teams aren't going to go out and deliberately lose from the off in this new Nations League format, there will be games later on where a team cant qualify for the play-offs but could be relegated. Now whats the point in playing to win if losing gives you a better chance of qualification next time around? You might want to ask the Belgians after the World Cup about that question. 

And that for me is the biggest problem with this new format, maybe I'm wrong as I've not seen anyone else pick up on it, but when you open the doors of qualification to the shittiest teams don't be surprised if there's a bad smell in the air.

 

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13 minutes ago, mentalist said:

Listen I'm not saying we should go out to lose these games but.....If we finish bottom of the group we are relegated for the next edition of the Nations League, that would put us in with the worst sides in Europe. The overall winner of that bunch would qualify for the World Cup, qualifying in the traditional way would either mean topping the group (no chance) or finishing second and getting through a play-off (pretty unlikely).  If we did finish bottom this time there's still a chance to qualify for Euro 2020 by finishing 2nd in the traditional group stage, difficult but easier than having to win a play-off as well. OK losing games would drop the ranking for that group stage but so does arranging games with Holland, Mexico, Peru, Belgium and probably Portugal. 

Even if teams aren't going to go out and deliberately lose from the off in this new Nations League format, there will be games later on where a team cant qualify for the play-offs but could be relegated. Now whats the point in playing to win if losing gives you a better chance of qualification next time around? You might want to ask the Belgians after the World Cup about that question. 

And that for me is the biggest problem with this new format, maybe I'm wrong as I've not seen anyone else pick up on it, but when you open the doors of qualification to the shittiest teams don't be surprised if there's a bad smell in the air.

 

No. 

The Nations League will not offer a route to the World Cup as far as I’m aware. 

I don’t think it has been confirmed yet but 24 European teams will not qualify for the World Cup so the qualifying will be different to the Euros. I also doubt FIFA will want diddy teams at their flagship tournament.

Our best bet would be to get relegated and stay there sir the next Euro campaign  that would just be silly though. 

 

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55 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

No. 

The Nations League will not offer a route to the World Cup as far as I’m aware. 

I don’t think it has been confirmed yet but 24 European teams will not qualify for the World Cup so the qualifying will be different to the Euros. I also doubt FIFA will want diddy teams at their flagship tournament.

Our best bet would be to get relegated and stay there sir the next Euro campaign  that would just be silly though. 

 

You've lost me there. Can you clarify?

Edited by Third Lanark
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1 minute ago, Third Lanark said:

You've lost me there. Can you clarify?

The Nations League is every two years so it will only offer a route to the European Championships every second tournament. 

If we get relegated this year, I’m fairly sure we’d get promoted in 2020 so we’d be back in League C the next time a European Championships place was available. 

If, as the OP was suggesting, we get relegated this year we would need to stay in League D after the next Nations League to give us a (fairly) easy route to Euro 2024. 

If we get relegated this year I’ll be shocked and McLeish will be back at the Job Centre. 

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I'm pretty sure only the countries winning the group's in section A qualify for anything. Winning a group in section D gets you shit.

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4 minutes ago, stevenmcn said:

I'm pretty sure only the countries winning the group's in section A qualify for anything. Winning a group in section D gets you shit.

Wrong. At least 1 team from League D will be at Euro 2020. 

The 4 winners play-offs for a place at the finals. Just like in League C. 

Edited by PASTA Mick

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18 minutes ago, stevenmcn said:

I'm pretty sure only the countries winning the group's in section A qualify for anything. Winning a group in section D gets you shit.

This is why a lot of people are not interested in the Nations League ffs. 

How can you be ‘pretty sure’ of something that is complete bollocks? 

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Well done to McLeish for saying it's a must win

More honest than Strachan ever was and will focus the players

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Fuck me, we already have an easy route, Albania and Israel is the easiest route to a play off we are ever going to get. If we can't achieve that then we really shouldnt be thinking of world cups or euro championships. 

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27 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Fuck me, we already have an easy route, Albania and Israel is the easiest route to a play off we are ever going to get. If we can't achieve that then we really shouldnt be thinking of world cups or euro championships. 

We are top seeds and favourites to win the group but the way some of the doom merchants on here are going on, you’d think we have no chance. 

The fact that some people still fail to grasp the concept of the Nations League and the fact group winners in all leagues are guaranteed a playoff if they need one isn’t going to help the attendance tomorrow.

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21 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

We are top seeds and favourites to win the group but the way some of the doom merchants on here are going on, you’d think we have no chance. 

The fact that some people still fail to grasp the concept of the Nations League and the fact group winners in all leagues are guaranteed a playoff if they need one isn’t going to help the attendance tomorrow.

Yeah, this is the easiest shot we have had at a Euro playoff spot in a long time. People need to get excited about it and start getting properly behind the lads! 

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Fuck me, we already have an easy route, Albania and Israel is the easiest route to a play off we are ever going to get. If we can't achieve that then we really shouldnt be thinking of world cups or euro championships. 

I wouldn’t say we have an easy route. Albania are similar in standard to us and Israel aren’t that far behind. 

If you think about it, our rivals for a playoff in the last Euro campaign were Ireland and Georgia. We couldn’t finish ahead of both of them. 

We do have an excellent chance of a playoff though. A victory tomorrow night will put us in the driving seat. 

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No beating around the bush here. Euro 2020 matches are being played at Hampden. We MUST qualify for this tournament!

 

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At the next WC UEFA will still only have 13 teams so qualification will be similar to last time round, probably. So, the Nations league will probably not be used to decide the play off spots.

Even after it goes to 48 teams UEFA only get an extra 3 teams at WC 2026. So it's still unlikely.

 

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1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

No beating around the bush here. Euro 2020 matches are being played at Hampden. We MUST qualify for this tournament!

 

If only it was as easy as that!

It must be extra motivation though surely?

It will be horrible having games on our doorstep if we’re not involved. 

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1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

I wouldn’t say we have an easy route. Albania are similar in standard to us and Israel aren’t that far behind. 

If you think about it, our rivals for a playoff in the last Euro campaign were Ireland and Georgia. We couldn’t finish ahead of both of them. 

We do have an excellent chance of a playoff though. A victory tomorrow night will put us in the driving seat. 

We have an easy route if you consider we could of been in Ireland's position of playing Wales and Denmark. Having to beat Albania and Israel to get a playoff for a major tournament is probably the easiest route I have ever seen  for us. If we can't achieve that then reality is we belong no where near a tournament. Albania and Israel are beatable teams for us and that's no disrespect to them but we have a great opportunity here.

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4 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

We have an easy route if you consider we could of been in Ireland's position of playing Wales and Denmark. Having to beat Albania and Israel to get a playoff for a major tournament is probably the easiest route I have ever seen  for us. If we can't achieve that then reality is we belong no where near a tournament. Albania and Israel are beatable teams for us and that's no disrespect to them but we have a great opportunity here.

Wales and Ireland are almost guaranteed a playoff if they need one. We are not.

I’m pretty sure everyone in League A will qualify through the qualifiers and most of the teams in League B will as well. 

If nobody in League A needs a playoff then League B will get 8 playoff spots. Will there even be 8 teams from League B that need a playoff? There will likely be at least 4 but unless something strange happens in the qualifiers, everyone from League B that doesn’t qualify will be in the playoffs. 

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3 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Wales and Ireland are almost guaranteed a playoff if they need one. We are not.

I’m pretty sure everyone in League A will qualify through the qualifiers and most of the teams in League B will as well. 

If nobody in League A needs a playoff then League B will get 8 playoff spots. Will there even be 8 teams from League B that need a playoff? There will likely be at least 4 but unless something strange happens in the qualifiers, everyone from League B that doesn’t qualify will be in the playoffs. 

Tbh there are alot of scenerios regarding this nations league and qualifying for the euros and I haven't exactly gotten to grips with them all  but even if you just look at it from a simplistic viewpoint it's a great opportunity for us to get a playoff spot as Albania and Israel are not exactly tough teams. If we are well managed then we should be expecting to beat this level of opposition. Anyways a quick question for those in the know, if we do top our group and get a playoff spot is this playoff against another league c team or is it against all other teams that topped their groups obviously minus the automatic qualifiers?

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6 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

I wouldn’t say we have an easy route. Albania are similar in standard to us and Israel aren’t that far behind. 

If you think about it, our rivals for a playoff in the last Euro campaign were Ireland and Georgia. We couldn’t finish ahead of both of them. 

We do have an excellent chance of a playoff though. A victory tomorrow night will put us in the driving seat. 

We would’ve finished ahead of them both in a group with just the three of us. It was Ireland’s results v Germany that saw them finish ahead of us.

Albania and Israel should be easier. But we now have a manager telling the team they’re not as good as other teams. That they can’t pass the ball very well. Just like Levein did.

If the manager has such little confidence in the team how can anyone expect the supporters to be full of hope and confidence for the future?

Three points is absolutely essential tomorrow night.

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Just had a run through the Albanian team that started on Friday and there is nothing world class and other then the GK and RB there is nothing great 

I really think if we get the formation, style and tactics right we could get this campaign off to a great start 

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8 minutes ago, DaveyDenoon said:

We would’ve finished ahead of them both in a group with just the three of us. It was Ireland’s results v Germany that saw them finish ahead of us.

Albania and Israel should be easier. But we now have a manager telling the team they’re not as good as other teams. That they can’t pass the ball very well. Just like Levein did.

If the manager has such little confidence in the team how can anyone expect the supporters to be full of hope and confidence for the future?

Three points is absolutely essential tomorrow night.

True, We’d have finished on the same points as Ireland I think but we had a better head to head record. 

Three points are definitely essential if we want to win the group. No doubt about it. 

As others have said though, if we can’t beat Albania at home then we’re simply not good enough to qualify for a tournament at the moment anyway. 

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2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

True, We’d have finished on the same points as Ireland I think but we had a better head to head record. 

Three points are definitely essential if we want to win the group. No doubt about it. 

As others have said though, if we can’t beat Albania at home then we’re simply not good enough to qualify for a tournament at the moment anyway. 

Agree completely.

Certainly if we can’t  finish above them and Israel in a mini group scenario we’ve got no business even contemplating major championship qualification.

If we can’t get off to a winning start then we’re in all sorts of shit.

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