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11 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Suppose unsurprisingly Civil Servants get just as half arsed as the rest of us in the days before Christmas but still its a bit disconcerting cutting n pasting trade agreements:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55475433

How were they to know technology had moved on 12 years later ;)

:lol:

If Rees Moggy gets his way, all communications will be done on vellum and by Pony Express.

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Funny how Alan always is MIA from threads like this, you know ones where the catastrophe that is the Conservative party are being discussed and how they have managed to create an economic and politica

Synopsis of UK position A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I prom

Says the Scotsman living and working in Australia with no hint of irony. 

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3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I don't always agree with Pete Wishart, but on this occasion he is correct. The SNP MPs should vote against this bill. 

Can't understand those who think they should abstain.

Make sure that the Tories and Labour own this shitshow and are accountable for it.

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42 minutes ago, aaid said:

Can't understand those who think they should abstain.

Make sure that the Tories and Labour own this shitshow and are accountable for it.

I am not a parliamentary expert but my first instinct was that to abstain would be enough to wash hands of endorsing Brexit, but without standing in the way of rUK getting what it voted for. There was, initially, a sort of sense of relief among most people (I'd have thought) that a deal had been done, that was better than none. In that context, the national mood would be glad to just get it approved and done and move on.

By voting against the deal would be in danger of being seen as out of step with that public mood, and allowing Tories (and Ian Murray) to paint the SNP as being at best posturing and inconsistent, and at worst endangering the deal.

I don't think it's actually endangering the deal (in numbers/probability terms and the nature of the deal and nature of the vote) and I don't think people are as ignorant to think the SNP are actually "pro No deal" but with all the misifnormation and pro-Union propaganda around there is at least some risk that some mud would stick (recalling how the SNP for decades were painted as having usehered in Thatcher - even though arguably she would have got in anyway).

That said, since then (my original reaciton), it's clear that all the opposition parties other than Labour will take the same position also meaning that only England-based / UK parties are the only ones voting for it. This makes Labour the odd one out and not the SNP (though they have been singled out for attack).

Also, I think as more detail emerges of the deal itself (including the EU court having jurisdiction on some things still, apparently - Horizon - and the fish debacle) the more the actual story will be how bad the deal actually is for the Tories, and if how the Scots Tories can vote for it given their past pledges on Fish and Northenr Ireland.

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Regardless of what you think about what Dr Rideout said Pete Wishart's response was utterly pathetic and shows him upon for what he is. There are too many in the SNP like Mr Wishart.

I happen to agree with Dr Rideout. The only reason the SNP are voting against is because it will make not difference so they are not being principled. I also think it has been shown that the Scottish MPs and Parliament have been sidelined a nd ignored throughout so it is time to walk away and do so on that basis. 

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31 minutes ago, exile said:

I don't think it's actually endangering the deal (in numbers/probability terms and the nature of the deal and nature of the vote)

...as it turns out, I understand the nature of the vote is that it's not about deal versus no deal but it's about how the legislation is implemented, so even if the bill failed it woudn't stop the deal or result in no deal. 

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1 hour ago, exile said:

...as it turns out, I understand the nature of the vote is that it's not about deal versus no deal but it's about how the legislation is implemented, so even if the bill failed it woudn't stop the deal or result in no deal. 

Exactly.  SNP have played a blinder here, laid a trap and Labour walked right into it and are now in a tailspin to the point that Scottish Labour will vote *against* the deal in the legislative consent motion at Holyrood while the last man standing in Edinburgh South will vote for it in Westminster.

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27 minutes ago, aaid said:

Exactly.  SNP have played a blinder here, laid a trap and Labour walked right into it and are now in a tailspin to the point that Scottish Labour will vote *against* the deal in the legislative consent motion at Holyrood while the last man standing in Edinburgh South will vote for it in Westminster.

I saw that, Labour seem in total disarray, making opposite arguments in the different Parliaments. Tories now looking isolated in Holyrood, while Ian Murray looking isolated in bed with Tories in Westminster. 

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3 hours ago, Lamia said:

Regardless of what you think about what Dr Rideout said Pete Wishart's response was utterly pathetic and shows him upon for what he is. There are too many in the SNP like Mr Wishart.

I happen to agree with Dr Rideout. The only reason the SNP are voting against is because it will make not difference so they are not being principled. I also think it has been shown that the Scottish MPs and Parliament have been sidelined a nd ignored throughout so it is time to walk away and do so on that basis. 

Exactly. Comes across as a complete bell end. 

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11 hours ago, aaid said:

They both do, tbh.

Interested to see who sent the email to Wings though.

For me the Doctor comes in low on the bell end scale and is asking fairly pertinent questions of an elected official especially given his own position within the SNP. 

The tone of Wishart's response is totally unnecessary and comes in fairly high on the bell end scale particularly when a key function of his job is attracting/ retaining voters and that isn't  the way to do it.  Is this tone reserved for the Doc due to some inferiority complex or does Sandra from Facebook get the same?

The likeliest route Wings got the email was via the Doc - although it pushes him a couple of steps up the bell end scale if I was in a position as justified as the Doc's to ask those questions and got that jumped up wee arsehole's response I'd probably employ the talents of a bigger jumped up arsehole in reposte too.  

For me I'm opposed to abstention as it usually just shows a lack of balls and lets folk who are elected to make decisions play a get out of jail free card.  In this case though I'd have preferred it simply because it'll be easier for morons and fools to understand.  Labour tried nuance in their last election and blew their own foot off from the thigh down.

When this all goes pear shaped and SNP point the finger at Labour for agreeing to the deal all they'll do is point back and say it's better than the No Deal SNP voted with the justification likely falling on deaf ears.  

Abstention would bring its own problems as well given it would let the genie out that it doesn't really matter how many SNP MP's there are as we get what we're telt.  It would likely be viewed as the trigger for a second referendum in whatever format that takes and its maybe one they really haven't appetite to pull in the midst of the second wave of the pandemic.       

    

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16 hours ago, Lamia said:

Regardless of what you think about what Dr Rideout said Pete Wishart's response was utterly pathetic and shows him upon for what he is. There are too many in the SNP like Mr Wishart.

I happen to agree with Dr Rideout. The only reason the SNP are voting against is because it will make not difference so they are not being principled. I also think it has been shown that the Scottish MPs and Parliament have been sidelined a nd ignored throughout so it is time to walk away and do so on that basis. 

Totally agree with this bit in bold. Wishart’s reply was atrocious for someone in his position. It was like something from a satirical comedy , and petty beyond belief. He should  be crucified for this.

I did however think it was a bit rich for Stuart Campbell to be criticising him, from what I have seen this is exactly the type of response he would make to anyone who dares question him.  

 
 

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11 minutes ago, phart said:

It all depends on how often the Doctor has sent emails to him. If that's the 150th one then the response makes more sense if it's just the first one then the answer is fucked up.

Yeah it all depends on the context and its simply an assumption this is a simple email exchange whereas potentially the Doctor could've been riding him daily and he's cherry picked this exchange for his own purposes. 

On the other hand, even if that were the case, you'd hope Wishart would have the gumption not to commit such a toxic and egregious response particularly in writing.  

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21 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Yeah it all depends on the context and its simply an assumption this is a simple email exchange whereas potentially the Doctor could've been riding him daily and he's cherry picked this exchange for his own purposes. 

On the other hand, even if that were the case, you'd hope Wishart would have the gumption not to commit such a toxic and egregious response particularly in writing.  

Well; why didn't Wishart say that then?

 

Given Wishart is a known @rse I think I will just stick to my assessment

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The answer is pissy as fuck it might just be how he talks to folk all the time.

Leaking it to someone shows how much ego is a problem in political parties. Ego off the scale in the reply by Wishart, and bruised ego needing salved by the action after getting the reply.

SNP has a lot of fucking zoomers in it. Politics is full of them as a whole as well.

Greens got all pissy about Wightman leaving too, no wonder a lot of competent, balanced people eschew the arena.

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27 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Well; why didn't Wishart say that then?

 

Given Wishart is a known @rse I think I will just stick to my assessment

Not doubting it and if I had to put a fiver on it I'd go along with Wishart just being dick too.  Although we don't know, even if there is a back story it isn't defensible anyway as it is so incomprehensibly foolish he may as well have just drawn a massive target on his front and back. It's beginning to reek of the arrogance New Labour had.   

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