The Brexit Thread

[exile]

The UK government lies because it knows it can get away with it. It is backed by a lot of voters (at least in England) who'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and a lot of the media. Even "impartial" media like the BBC, though they may not be pro-Tory as such, will typically present things from the UK Government/UK/London perspective, when dealing with European/international matters: UK=goodies, plucky Brits (not perfidious, dodgy, reneging, etc.); EU= baddies (bureaucratic, bullies), etc. 

So lies are not called out, and even if they are, people don't want to belive them; the news quickly moves on to something else, and in any case the next election could be 4 years away. No one seems to resign for things like lying or misleading the house any more. Remember Carmichael, he was allowed a 'political lie' and got away with it, he's still there. Reporters too: BBC's Nick Robinson, brazenly lied in front of the nation - still in the job.

Maybe most harmful of all is when people make promises or signal intentions to suit themselves at one point, and then don't deliver them, but the damage is done. Gordon Brown promising federalism and Cameron promising all sorts in 2014 then running away and backtracking as soon as vote won. Or Mundell and Davidson, grandstanding about resigning over Northern Ireland deal, to sound as if defending Scotland, now silent and very much not resigning and happy to see Scotland shafted.

Edited December 12, 2020 by exile

[davy-hay]

57 minutes ago, davy-hay said:

The interviewer is the worst in the business.   That doesn't mean the words he used are wrong, but it puts people off if he's so bad at his trade.  It actually made mogg look good. 

This is certainly true regardless of the subject.  He's like a fookin bairn 

[davy-hay]

38 minutes ago, exile said:

The UK government lies because it knows it can get away with it. It is backed by a lot of voters (at least in England) who'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and a lot of the media. Even "impartial" media like the BBC, though they may not be pro-Tory as such, will typically present things from the UK Government/UK/London perspective, when dealing with European/international matters: UK=goodies, plucky Brits (not perfidious, dodgy, reneging, etc.); EU= baddies (bureaucratic, bullies), etc. 

So lies are not called out, and even if they are, people don't want to belive them; the news quickly moves on to something else, and in any case the next election could be 4 years away. No one seems to resign for things like lying or misleading the house any more. Remember Carmichael, he was allowed a 'political lie' and got away with it, he's still there. Reporters too: BBC's Nick Robinson, brazenly lied in front of the nation - still in the job.

Maybe most harmful of all is when people make promises or signal intentions to suit themselves at one point, and then don't deliver them, but the damage is done. Gordon Brown promising federalism and Cameron promising all sorts in 2014 then running away and backtracking as soon as vote won. Or Mundell and Davidson, grandstanding about resigning over Northern Ireland deal, to sound as if defending Scotland, now silent and very much not resigning and happy to see Scotland shafted.

Good post 

[Kirk]

As much as it's going to be really shit, I can't help but laugh at al the fucking mutants who voted for it now complaining. 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 hours ago, Kirk said:

As much as it's going to be really shit, I can't help but laugh at al the fucking mutants who voted for it now complaining. 

Or even worse the deluded fools still trying to paint it as something good.

[phart]

There's a whole meme about this sort of thing

 

It almost seems like a parody some of the reactions. Reality is going to be hard for a lot of folk.

[exile]

It's started...

 

[davy-hay]

7 hours ago, exile said:

It's started...

 

Its unsustainable to have queues like that.  A change will happen and the situation will improve.  

 

Point to remember is neither the UK or the EU benifit from the backstop so its days are numbered. 

Plus, anyone who thought there weren't going to be teething problems is deluded.  We are changing our whole trading agreement!! Of course there will be temporary problems... Think of it like getting a new computer system in your work and everyone flapping. 

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, davy-hay said:

Its unsustainable to have queues like that.  A change will happen and the situation will improve.  

 

Point to remember is neither the UK or the EU benifit from the backstop so its days are numbered. 

Plus, anyone who thought there weren't going to be teething problems is deluded.  We are changing our whole trading agreement!! Of course there will be temporary problems... Think of it like getting a new computer system in your work and everyone flapping. 

Teething problems can be handled, correct but when its glaringly obvious the new system being installed has no benefit to the company, whats the point?

Ive asked so many leavers the same question but nobody gives a straight answer, what benefits are you expecting from brexit?

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

29 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Teething problems can be handled, correct but when its glaringly obvious the new system being installed has no benefit to the company, whats the point?

Ive asked so many leavers the same question but nobody gives a straight answer, what benefits are you expecting from brexit?

I've been asking the brexiteer the same question for day's, still waiting for an answer.

[Caledonian Craig]

32 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

 

Ive asked so many leavers the same question but nobody gives a straight answer, what benefits are you expecting from brexit?

Top mindset on that is stop these awful, nasty immigrants coming into my country and stealing jobs.

Totally demented thinking that is. It pains me to say it but these 'nasty immigrants' are coming in to do jobs that Today's Brits (Scots included) see as below them. They have their heads in the clouds thinking the job for them is professional footballer, pop singer, airline pilot and not as waitress or barman or shop employees - that is way below them. Sadly, BritNats do not see, accept or comprehend that. I do. I have seen it in my own workplace. Brits/Scots entering a job on railways and lasting a few days before jacking it in and at the same time I saw Poles, Africans and other nationalities sticking at it and moving on to promotions.

[davy-hay]

43 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Teething problems can be handled, correct but when its glaringly obvious the new system being installed has no benefit to the company, whats the point?

Ive asked so many leavers the same question but nobody gives a straight answer, what benefits are you expecting from brexit?

1. Fairer and more equal immigration policy regarding the rest of the world. 

2.  Not paying the EU a huge bill every day. 

3.  More or total control by our own government in certain areas where previously they had to abide by EU rules.   (might be a long or short list) 

 

4.  If the EU is failing or in difficulty then we won't be part of it. (i bailouts due to single currency disaster... Let's face it, the single currency is a disaster....  ii And not having to contribute to the daft European army idea) 

 

 

These are things I expect rather than what will happen.  You did ask what voters expect or think rather than reality. 

[exile]

3 hours ago, davy-hay said:

Its unsustainable to have queues like that.  A change will happen and the situation will improve.  

 

Point to remember is neither the UK or the EU benifit from the backstop so its days are numbered. 

Plus, anyone who thought there weren't going to be teething problems is deluded.  We are changing our whole trading agreement!! Of course there will be temporary problems... Think of it like getting a new computer system in your work and everyone flapping. 

Teething problems are not unexpected. (The same could apply for an Independent Scotland.)

But in this case, the British Government have had 4.5 years to get a trade deal, and 10+ months since we actually left the EU to get things in place. They could have had a deal, on many occasions during 2019, but they woudn't. They could have voted to block a no deal from happening, and they didn't. They've had a year of majority control to push through any deal they wanted, but they didn't. They could even have had the balls to say we want WTO, and had a year to prepare the country for it. But they did none of those things. These are not 'teething' problems but full scale intensive care ahead.

[exile]

How are the days of the backstop numbered?

[vanderark14]

3 hours ago, davy-hay said:

1. Fairer and more equal immigration policy regarding the rest of the world. 

2.  Not paying the EU a huge bill every day. 

3.  More or total control by our own government in certain areas where previously they had to abide by EU rules.   (might be a long or short list) 

 

4.  If the EU is failing or in difficulty then we won't be part of it. (i bailouts due to single currency disaster... Let's face it, the single currency is a disaster....  ii And not having to contribute to the daft European army idea) 

 

 

These are things I expect rather than what will happen.  You did ask what voters expect or think rather than reality. 

1. This country needs immigrants. What is about them you dont like?

2. Ive no issue with paying the EU as long as we get something in return. 

3. That a very vague answer, which areas did you think the EU controlled which were a hinderence to you or anyone else?

4. Why is the single currency a disaster? Bailing others out is part of a deal which will benefit from, its not a one way street..

 

[TDYER63]

47 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

1. This country needs immigrants. What is about them you dont like?

2. Ive no issue with paying the EU as long as we get something in return. 

3. That a very vague answer, which areas did you think Dr the EU controlled which were a hinderence to you or anyone else?

4. Why is the single currency a disaster? Bailing others out is part of a deal which will benefit from, its not a one way street..

 

Over the last 5 years we have paid an average  of £7.8 bio per year to the EU , after grants etc have been reimbursed to the UK. That represents 0.9 % of UK Government annual spending , equivalent to £117 per person per year, or 32p per person per day.
 

Will be interesting to see how the removal of free goods , labour and services is going to be a cheaper prospect. 

What would a person earning £30k get for 0.9 % of their salary. Membership to a basic health centre? Most basic sky package? 
 

People get caught up in the big  
number. FFS the INTEREST alone we paid on UK government debt for 19/20 was 48 billion. 

 

 

[exile]

[davy-hay]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

1. This country needs immigrants. What is about them you dont like?

2. Ive no issue with paying the EU as long as we get something in return. 

3. That a very vague answer, which areas did you think the EU controlled which were a hinderence to you or anyone else?

4. Why is the single currency a disaster? Bailing others out is part of a deal which will benefit from, its not a one way street..

 

Couldn’t agree more. You ll notice I never said I don't like immigrants or immigration.  

Strange response by you there 😳

[aaid]

I see that the Met Police have concluded that there is insufficient evidence to proceed with the investigation into the alleged rape by the anonymous Tory MP and former minister and will be taking no further action.

Completely unrelated, I expect we will be hearing shortly from pint-sized Brexiteer Mark Francois on his views on the trade deal or lack thereof.

[phart]

5 hours ago, exile said:

4 is mental.

7 has no self awareness

Thinking on it 4 might be the worst point i've ever read.

[Hertsscot]

8 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Over the last 5 years we have paid an average  of £7.8 bio per year to the EU , after grants etc have been reimbursed to the UK. That represents 0.9 % of UK Government annual spending , equivalent to £117 per person per year, or 32p per person per day.
Will be interesting to see how the removal of free goods , labour and services is going to be a cheaper prospect

 

 

I'll expect to pay more on visas, travel insurance, driving abroad etc. that £117 looks good value.

[vanderark14]

13 hours ago, davy-hay said:

Couldn’t agree more. You ll notice I never said I don't like immigrants or immigration.  

Strange response by you there 😳

Ok i will rephrase, what is it about the current or i guess now old immigration system you are unhappy about?

Why are you avoiding the other questions?

[vanderark14]

8 hours ago, phart said:

4 is mental.

7 has no self awareness

Thinking on it 4 might be the worst point i've ever read.

Who the hell wrote that article ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[davy-hay]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Ok i will rephrase, what is it about the current or i guess now old immigration system you are unhappy about?

Why are you avoiding the other questions?

Wanting immigration to be equal and non discriminate around the whole world, ie an end to the free movement of people ( instead use visa system. ) 

One point at a time is better--not wanting to type all day 😁

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, davy-hay said:

Wanting immigration to be equal and non discriminate around the whole world, ie an end to the free movement of people ( instead use visa system. ) 

One point at a time is better--not wanting to type all day 😁

🤔’  wanting immigration to be equal and non discriminate around the whole world’  but to end the free movement of people .  Is that not a contradiction ? 

Would introducing a visa system not be discriminatory ?