The Brexit Thread

[davy-hay]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

🤔’  wanting immigration to be equal and non discriminate around the whole world’  but to end the free movement of people .  Is that not a contradiction ? 

Would introducing a visa system not be discriminatory ? 

Because visa's are done on merit.   

[ThistleWhistle]

The issue though is looking at this one way – the other side of the coin is its we’re in competition to attract folk too. 

 

At the moment there’s about 2.3m EU employees which is about 10% of the employed workforce whose NHS/Visa charges are currently £0.  Going forward Tier 2 will be £610 (reducing to £460 if on shortage) for a three year visa each family member.  Adding to that the NHS surcharge of £625 per year or £430 for kids then that’s c.£8k so for a family coming over on £25k-£30k minimum salary 10% of their gross wage is already gone. 

 

Given only 1.3m currently come from ROW at the moment its difficult to see how the new visa scheme will plug the gap of folk leaving in drovers and why would replacement EU migrants come here now there is a tarrif on  their employment?   

 

However, I’m not really convinced they want to with ‘modernization’ being the buzzword which is just a soft and fluffy way of saying folk on the bottom rungs will get shafted again.      

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, davy-hay said:

Because visa's are done on merit.   

And who decides what ‘merit’ is a fair merit ? 

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

On 12/12/2020 at 11:07 AM, davy-hay said:

All we've heard from the brexit politicians is that we should not be worried about leaving without a deal.    Why are they saying that?  Don't just say cause they are LYING.  I want to know WHY they are lying.     Stupid thing to lie about if they get found out. 

 

 

Tory MP Peter Bone Got Absolutely Monstered While Trying To Defend A No-Deal Brexit On Sky News (msn.com)

 

Have a read then justify what your brexiteer pal said.

[phart]

7 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Tory MP Peter Bone Got Absolutely Monstered While Trying To Defend A No-Deal Brexit On Sky News (msn.com)

 

Have a read then justify what your brexiteer pal said.

To partially quote Richard Feynman

"...reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."

[davy-hay]

39 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

And who decides what ‘merit’ is a fair merit ? 

The law obviously 😳.   We already have visa systems all over the world.  Point system or whether or not someone has a criminal record etc... Don't you know how these things work? 

[TDYER63]

8 minutes ago, davy-hay said:

The law obviously 😳.   We already have visa systems all over the world.  Point system or whether or not someone has a criminal record etc... Don't you know how these things work? 

Ah , the law obviously. Good luck with a Tory visa system 👍

I know how they work, I was looking for a bit more substance than that. 

[davy-hay]

3 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Ah , the law obviously. Good luck with a Tory visa system 👍

I know how they work, I was looking for a bit more substance than that. 

What extra thing do you want from a visa? a pretty card + name badge sticker that says "tdyer can fly" 

It's a visa not a AA clinic.    It's done on mass and if you pass the requirements you are allowed passage.  If not' oooottt.   

Small fee collected per granted application.   

 

Ive managed my Indian visa no problem. 

[Rich NATA]

7 hours ago, davy-hay said:

ie an end to the free movement of people ( instead use visa system. ) 

If you look at this same situation, but from a different angle; it is our free movement which will end.

The EU/EFTA states will have free movement between 27+ countries. 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Rich NATA

[davy-hay]

Just now, Rich NATA said:

If you look at this same situation, but from a different angle; it is our free movement which will end.

The EU/EFTA states still have free movement. 

 

 

I can do an online visa if required.  Did it without my mum's help too 😁😁😁😁😁

[TDYER63]

8 minutes ago, davy-hay said:

What extra thing do you want from a visa? a pretty card + name badge sticker that says "tdyer can fly" 

It's a visa not a AA clinic.    It's done on mass and if you pass the requirements you are allowed passage.  If not' oooottt.   

Small fee collected per granted application.   

 

Ive managed my Indian visa no problem. 

 

Enlightening as ever. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by TDYER63
.

[davy-hay]

Just now, TDYER63 said:

 

Enlightening as ever. 

Let us know your answer then.  

[TDYER63]

Just now, davy-hay said:

Let us know your answer then.  

I am not the one questioning the current system . I dont need to explain anything. Its you that wants it changed.  

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

10 minutes ago, davy-hay said:

Let us know your answer then.  

You have more front than Blackpool!!! Asking someone to answer when you can't answer a simple question about the benefits of brexit to Scotland. I've asked you a few times and i will respect your opinions but get no answer from you. So is it safe to say you are full of shite and can't convince me how wonderful brexit will be.

[davy-hay]

17 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I am not the one questioning the current system . I dont need to explain anything. Its you that wants it changed.  

No. I'm not proposing a change to the visa system.  

[TDYER63]

20 minutes ago, davy-hay said:

No. I'm not proposing a change to the visa system.  

No , you are proposing a change to the free movement of people. So if you are you saying you are happy with the current visa system with the rest of the world now applying to Europe how do you suggest we  plug the skills shortage as mentioned by ThistleWhistle? 

I thought you may have some insight into how a new visa system might enhance what we have by overcoming the problems we will encounter losing free movement of people. You do accept there will be issues ?  
 

 

[davy-hay]

22 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

No , you are proposing a change to the free movement of people. So if you are you saying you are happy with the current visa system with the rest of the world now applying to Europe how do you suggest we  plug the skills shortage as mentioned by ThistleWhistle? 

I thought you may have some insight into how a new visa system might enhance what we have by overcoming the problems we will encounter losing free movement of people. You do accept there will be issues ?  
 

 

Glad you understand. 

 

We will advertise jobs and then people will apply.  What skill shortage? A doctor won't be denied a visa unless he's Harrold Shipman. 

[Rich NATA]

Only highly skilled people can come in?

[TDYER63]

17 minutes ago, davy-hay said:

Glad you understand. 

 

We will advertise jobs and then people will apply.  What skill shortage? A doctor won't be denied a visa unless he's Harrold Shipman. 

I am not talking about doctors and you know it. The UK  government started with a figure of £35,600 as the requirement for getting entry to the UK. They have just lowered that to 25k as they are now concerned there wont be enough workers to fill jobs. They are also reducing it further to  £20,500 if the applicant has enough points. They are making the rules up as they go along, they havent a clue. 

It’s pointless discussing with you. I shouldnt have got sucked in. 

 

[davy-hay]

7 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I am not talking about doctors and you know it. The UK  government started with a figure of £35,600 as the requirement for getting entry to the UK. They have just lowered that to 25k as they are now concerned there wont be enough workers to fill jobs. They are also reducing it further to  £20,500 if the applicant has enough points. They are making the rules up as they go along, they havent a clue. 

It’s pointless discussing with you. I shouldnt have got sucked in. 

 

The rules will be altered as and when we need to.  All governments would have done the same,, ever the snp

[phart]

Davy are you aware how little information you have and how it maybe affecting your ability to make a sound decision?

I'm guessing no. So i'm just going to talk past you for others who may be reading and want to see a cogent argument in the areas being discussed.

40,000 too few nurses atm, it will be worse soon as it become harder and less attractive for them to work here. https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/lack-of-nurses-most-concerning-shortage-in-nhs-report-finds/

We've the 5th worst doctor per capita rate in the whole of Europe and again going to get worse. https://publishing.rcseng.ac.uk/doi/pdfplus/10.1308/rcsbull.2020.78

There's a huge skill shortage according to the Royal College of Physicians. Now admittedly we can't know for certain who would be best placed to make this judgement between the two of you. I'm going to go with the Royal College on this one. Mainly cause they could pass a Turing test.

Edited December 14, 2020 by phart

[Grim Jim]

2 hours ago, phart said:

Mainly cause they could pass a Turing test.

Ouch   😄

[phart]

[phart]

For Tony Bessent, the daily reality is a reminder that reeks: he’s unable to work in his garden because of the overriding smell of urine. “They chuck two-litre Coke bottles full of piss straight onto the roadside,” says the 77-year-old retiree living on the outskirts of Dover in Kent, who voted Leave in the 2016 referendum. “I like to work on my garden and in my workshop. But you can really smell the fumes of it.”

It comes from thousands of truck drivers who, every day, are now stuck waiting in line along the A20, a key road that passes directly by Bessent’s house on the journey from London to Dover’s port, which processes 4 million lorries a year. As Britain lurches toward independence, last-minute trial border checks have seen those queues multiply.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy8x77/this-corner-of-england-is-ground-zero-for-brexit-chaos-and-it-literally-reeks-of-piss

[vanderark14]

13 hours ago, phart said:

For Tony Bessent, the daily reality is a reminder that reeks: he’s unable to work in his garden because of the overriding smell of urine. “They chuck two-litre Coke bottles full of piss straight onto the roadside,” says the 77-year-old retiree living on the outskirts of Dover in Kent, who voted Leave in the 2016 referendum. “I like to work on my garden and in my workshop. But you can really smell the fumes of it.”

It comes from thousands of truck drivers who, every day, are now stuck waiting in line along the A20, a key road that passes directly by Bessent’s house on the journey from London to Dover’s port, which processes 4 million lorries a year. As Britain lurches toward independence, last-minute trial border checks have seen those queues multiply.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy8x77/this-corner-of-england-is-ground-zero-for-brexit-chaos-and-it-literally-reeks-of-piss

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I cant help laughing

What did they expect? To have everything the same but not be ruled by bad jonny foreigner? Oops i forgot thats exactly what they wanted