Team for Slovenia

[McTeeko]

Not at all. I'd have had him on the bench. He's raw and inexperienced but sometimes that helps as you've no fear. 

All I'm saying is that last week at Oriam, he completely stood out for the wrong reasons. If I'm seeing it, sure as hell Strachan, McGhee and Docherty are seeing it. 

[wellyman]

11 minutes ago, GordyA88 said:

I would replace them with Fraser and Phillips. Same team otherwise.

Yeah, i would go for that - first half last night we pressed really well but Griffiths needed more support at times and I think Fraser, Phillips or Anya would have the speed to get forward with him + with 2 of those 3 and Tierney and Robertson getting forward it will keep the England full backs pinned back.

 

[Parklife]

10 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

Not at all.

That's exactly what's happening in this thread... 

10 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

All I'm saying is that last week at Oriam, he completely stood out for the wrong reasons. If I'm seeing it, sure as hell Strachan, McGhee and Docherty are seeing it. 

I'll have to take your word for that, as i wasn't there. It goes completely against everything i've heard folk say about Burke though. 

[Squirrelhumper]

4 hours ago, Jacques Hunt said:

I remain hopeful that Burke can become an impact player up front for us. Rather than purely a wide man. Bit of a luxury I suppose. He's pacey and strong though  and I like that. Poor touch on evidence so far. Needs game time at club. He is getting about 10 minutes a game at Leipzig I think. So much for impact player then eh? Fingers crossed.

I do too but past couple of games with us he's looked huffy and almost uninterested. He certainly hasn't looked like he wants to impress. Just my opinion of course. I've a feeling there's more to this than meets the eye.

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

That's exactly what's happening in this thread... 

I'll have to take your word for that, as i wasn't there. It goes completely against everything i've heard folk say about Burke though. 

To be fair to McTeeko, he posted that about Burke last week. 

[McTeeko]

4 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I do too but past couple of games with us he's looked huffy and almost uninterested. He certainly hasn't looked like he wants to impress. Just my opinion of course. I've a feeling there's more to this than meets the eye.

That's my take on it too. That's twice he's been completely jettisoned from the squad after the first match of a double header. At least he's getting in though and the onus is on him, the likes of Bardsley and McCormack (when he was on form), didn't even make the squad.  

[RenfrewBlue]

10 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I do too but past couple of games with us he's looked huffy and almost uninterested. He certainly hasn't looked like he wants to impress. Just my opinion of course. I've a feeling there's more to this than meets the eye.

Perhaps he's disinterested because of the manager's attitude towards him? 

Ive no idea if this is true or not but it's backed by as much empirical evidence as the "he's a huffy bugger" hypothesis. 

[Squirrelhumper]

1 minute ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Perhaps he's disinterested because of the manager's attitude towards him? 

Ive no idea if this is true or not but it's backed by as much empirical evidence as the "he's a huffy bugger" hypothesis. 

True, it's all conjecture. 

He needs more game time regardless as i think his game depends on it more than some others. 

[RenfrewBlue]

1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said:

True, it's all conjecture. 

He needs more game time regardless as i think his game depends on it more than some others. 

Completely agree. He may well need more game time to boost his confidence which in turn should get him playing better. 

Either way, he should be ahead of Forrest now as he's had his chances and done nothing. 

[Caledonian Craig]

At the moment we cannot afford the luxury of carrying passengers in our side. Our lack of top notch talent compared to other sides mean we need 11 players contributing and working hard for the cause. From what I have seen so far that is not Oliver Burke.

[SMcoolJ]

9 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

At the moment we cannot afford the luxury of carrying passengers in our side. Our lack of top notch talent compared to other sides mean we need 11 players contributing and working hard for the cause. From what I have seen so far that is not Oliver Burke.

Forrest

[munro7]

6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

At the moment we cannot afford the luxury of carrying passengers in our side. Our lack of top notch talent compared to other sides mean we need 11 players contributing and working hard for the cause. From what I have seen so far that is not Oliver Burke.

I don't think anyone's really claiming he's the finished article but he is a promising young player who has had the courage to learn a different footballing style by going abroad which hopefully bodes well for the future.

I think the frustration just now is the inconsistency when he's binned and not even on the bench after a poor game and others such as Forrest are not only in the squad but starting line up despite being rotten time after time.

[wanderer]

Unfortunately I think Strachan is going to tread very carefully with Burke over the next few months........... he was over-hyped to the hill last summer, and though he showed in bits and bobs v Malta what he can do (and at club level to a degree), end of the day it was v Malta, and since then its been shown that he is not quite ready for the full team, yet does Strachan put him back in the U21's and risk upsetting a potential future star player for us? I suspect in June he will be sent out to the Toulon Tournament with the U20's rather than being in the squad for the England match.

Was speaking to people yesterday about the training day, but they put his attitude down to more that he might have been carrying a slight injury (he is only just weeks back from a couple of weeks back injured).

[Caledonian Craig]

9 minutes ago, munro7 said:

I don't think anyone's really claiming he's the finished article but he is a promising young player who has had the courage to learn a different footballing style by going abroad which hopefully bodes well for the future.

I think the frustration just now is the inconsistency when he's binned and not even on the bench after a poor game and others such as Forrest are not only in the squad but starting line up despite being rotten time after time.

I am not Forrest's biggest fan either let's make no bones about this but he has offered more than Burke has so far which isn't saying a lot I know but that is more down to how disappointing Burke has been.

Burke has been touted as a great talent so why haven't we seen it? Armstrong on his debut last night shone and would say Burke has more natural talent. Cairney the other night also did more than Burke as has the likes of Tierney so that does lead me to believe something is amiss from Burke's game and as he has the talent the only thing left to question is attitude and aptitude.

[Parklife]

6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Burke has been touted as a great talent so why haven't we seen it? Armstrong on his debut last night shone and would say Burke has more natural talent. Cairney the other night also did more than Burke as has the likes of Tierney so that does lead me to believe something is amiss from Burke's game and as he has the talent the only thing left to question is attitude and aptitude.

What a lot of dross  

[ProudScot]

8 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I am not Forrest's biggest fan either let's make no bones about this but he has offered more than Burke has so far which isn't saying a lot I know but that is more down to how disappointing Burke has been.

Burke has been touted as a great talent so why haven't we seen it? Armstrong on his debut last night shone and would say Burke has more natural talent. Cairney the other night also did more than Burke as has the likes of Tierney so that does lead me to believe something is amiss from Burke's game and as he has the talent the only thing left to question is attitude and aptitude.

Because he is 19.

Forrest was also touted as one and is somehow still in our team 5 years later.

[PASTA Mick]

Strachan liked Burke when he was on the fringes of the Forest team but now he's at a team near the top of the German league he's not so keen. 

[wanderer]

7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I am not Forrest's biggest fan either let's make no bones about this but he has offered more than Burke has so far which isn't saying a lot I know but that is more down to how disappointing Burke has been.

Burke has been touted as a great talent so why haven't we seen it? Armstrong on his debut last night shone and would say Burke has more natural talent. Cairney the other night also did more than Burke as has the likes of Tierney so that does lead me to believe something is amiss from Burke's game and as he has the talent the only thing left to question is attitude and aptitude.

Forrest has something like 17 cap's now for Scotland, and in that times has never really done any memorable/stood out, yet seems capable of producing a stand out performance for Celtic in a match that see's him thrust into the Scotland team, only for that form to vanish yet again when put in a blue shirt.

While both are certainly one's for the long term, I always suspected there was a element of getting both Burke and Tierney tied down. Never been in the presence of both players, but always feels like Tierney is very mature for his age and has his head screwed on, yet with Burke he always seems to have this brooding demeanor that makes it hard to think what his attitude is.

To be fair, both of them are only 19, while Forrest, Armstrong and Cairney are in their mid 20's, with Armstrong and Cairney just getting their chance after years of calls for them to show what they can do.

[Caledonian Craig]

 

Ah I get where this is going? Get Burke in as you don't rate Forrest. On Burke's displays so far for us then no thanks. At least Forrest beats a man - sure the end ball is usually dire but Burke hasn't even offered that so far. Yes so he is 19 so has the old adage if you're old enough you're good enough been binned then?

Far too much is being made of this. Burke is getting chances but is yet to impress so won't start/feature in must win games - fair enough I'd say.

[Caledonian Craig]

Last post was not directed at you wanderer.

[wanderer]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

 

Ah I get where this is going? Get Burke in as you don't rate Forrest. On Burke's displays so far for us then no thanks. At least Forrest beats a man - sure the end ball is usually dire but Burke hasn't even offered that so far. Yes so he is 19 so has the old adage if you're old enough you're good enough been binned then?

Far too much is being made of this. Burke is getting chances but is yet to impress so won't start/feature in must win games - fair enough I'd say.

Would not say he failed to impress, as (granted only got on for the last few minutes) his debut v Denmark his run into the box did show something is there, but v Malta is was more to being misused/played out of position..... he clearly likes the ball at his feet, yet for some reason v Malta Strachan thought it was best to go route one with him by just firing long balls at him, and he just seemed to lose interest in that match (reminded me of Duncan Ferguson somewhat).... and then its been very little to speak of.

[PapofGlencoe]

never understood the age thing.  if you're good enough, you're good enough.   The grandpaws of Craig Broon got us to finals.  You  play whoever is best, regardless of age.  Burke hasn't shown anything so far to merit being above Forrest, in my view.

I would also say, if someone is technically better but plays in the reserves they shouldn't be in the squad.  If they want to play for Scotland, you at least get a game for your team.  If you're not getting a game; you look for a club where you will.  Within reason, i'd rather a player playing standout performances for the likes of Hibs than a less-than-bit-part player at an English Championship club.  Anyone that plays football knows playing is important.

Burke will come good I'm sure but he's not deserving right now based on performances.  He's playing in the bundesliga for a top team.  if he's playing well, he should play.  if he's just getting 10mins, nah.

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by PapofGlencoe

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

never understood the age thing.  if you're good enough, you're good enough.   The grandpaws of Craig Broon got us to finals.  You  play whoever is best, regardless of age.  Burke hasn't shown anything so far to merit being above Forrest, in my view.

I would also say, if someone is technically better but plays in the reserves they shouldn't be in the squad.  If they want to play for Scotland, you at least get a game for your team.  If you're not getting a game; you look for a club where you will.  Within reason, i'd rather a player playing standout performances for the likes of Hibs than a less-than-bit-part player at an English Championship club.  Anyone that plays football knows playing is important.

Burke will come good I'm sure but he's not deserving right now based on performances.  He's playing in the bundesliga for a top team.  if he's playing well, he should play.  if he's just getting 10mins, nah.

 

Spot on.

[Parklife]

11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

 

Ah I get where this is going? Get Burke in as you don't rate Forrest. On Burke's displays so far for us then no thanks. At least Forrest beats a man - sure the end ball is usually dire but Burke hasn't even offered that so far. Yes so he is 19 so has the old adage if you're old enough you're good enough been binned then?

Far too much is being made of this. Burke is getting chances but is yet to impress so won't start/feature in must win games - fair enough I'd say.

It's about managing players. All folk are saying is that we're unlikely to get the best out of Burke by giving him an hour in a crappy team performance, then jettisoning him completely thereafter. What's that going to do for his confidence? 

Give him chances, give him a run in the side. Make him feel valued. Rather than dropping him completely. 

You're argument above is ridiculous. You're attempting to compare a young player, with limited first team football to players who've played 100+ first team games. Players have to be managed effectively to get the best from them. Strachan is clearly mismanaging Burke IMO. 

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, Parklife said:

It's about managing players. All folk are saying is that we're unlikely to get the best out of Burke by giving him an hour in a crappy team performance, then jettisoning him completely thereafter. What's that going to do for his confidence? 

Give him chances, give him a run in the side. Make him feel valued. Rather than dropping him completely. 

You're argument above is ridiculous. You're attempting to compare a young player, with limited first team football to players who've played 100+ first team games. Players have to be managed effectively to get the best from them. Strachan is clearly mismanaging Burke IMO. 

How is he clearly mis-managing him exactly? By your own posts you recognize he isnt ready. He is getting matches in friendlies and chances but has failed to live up to expectations so won't figure in key matches at this time. Seems fair enough to me.