EU Referendum

[Rossy]

13 minutes ago, they've_been_suckered said:

I don't see any reason why it would change. You've not really given me much other than conjecture. 

Give me your address and I'll send you the Ladybird book on why it may well be more expensive to manufacture goods for the EU, in a country outside the EU.

Then maybe you'll get it.

[andymac]

I am starting to see how leave won. ?

[Ally Bongo]

If there is an upside apart from increasing the chances of Scottish Independence then i guess it will be not having to worry about TTIP anymore ?

Leave won because out with London, the English and Welsh blamed damaging austerity, unemployment and unrestricted immigration on the EU when it really is mainly Westminster's fault.

Scotland (and Northern Ireland) has not experienced anything like the social impact mass immigration has on certain areas of England and Wales

There are plenty areas where there are "no white people" left or "white no go zones" meaning it is far easier to appeal to the prejudices people have.

 

 

[Scunnered]

13 minutes ago, andymac said:

I am starting to see how leave won. ?

Nationalism?

[neilser]

49 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Cameron is a gambler

He gambled by leaving devo max out of the Scottish Referendum options and just won leaving the UK constitution still up in the air

He gambled on the Euro referendum and has lost his job and probably the UK constitution 

A total fud

Remember how the Tories absolutely humiliated Miliband when he said he did not want a referendum for the exact reasons of yesterday

Mugs

Agreed - he's been playing political poker for years. His approach reflects his background - silver spooner, Eton, Oxford, Bullingdon, internship through family connections, job at Carlton Communications through those connections, Tory Central office job, safe Tory seat etc etc. He's had everything on a plate and he clearly thought he was invincible. 

I said on here years ago that he was complacent, lazy and despite his education basically thick. He's the guy that let Rupert Murdoch's point man in the guise of Andy Coulson into Downing Street despite being warned about the risks. He very nearly screwed up the Scottish referendum (from the perspective of the U.K.) like you say, by making it all or nothing. This all pales into insignificance with the EU referendum though - he's jeopardised the economic future of the people who live in these islands and possibly wrecked the situation in N.Ireland in the hope of a quick fix for his car crash of a political party. I hope he ends up looking as haunted as Tony Blair in the decades to come. This'll be the first setback of his career and they don't come much bigger.

[Mindimoo]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-scottish-referendum-scotland-eu-remain-nicola-sturgeon-snp-a7100736.html

intereating scenario perhaps.

[fringo]

30 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

If there is an upside apart from increasing the chances of Scottish Independence then i guess it will be not having to worry about TTIP anymore ?

Leave won because out with London, the English and Welsh blamed damaging austerity, unemployment and unrestricted immigration on the EU when it really is mainly Westminster's fault.

Scotland (and Northern Ireland) has not experienced anything like the social impact mass immigration has on certain areas of England and Wales

There are plenty areas where there are "no white people" left or "white no go zones" meaning it is far easier to appeal to the prejudices people have.

 

 

That's what I've been saying. And it will continue.

[TDYER63]

38 minutes ago, andymac said:

AsI am starting to see how leave won. ?

Leave won because, unfortunately, there are more casual racists in the Uk than we would care to admit.  

I have a colleague who lives in London , very pro Brexit capitalist but not himself racist in any way i have ever noticed . He is a shrewd guy and predicted this outcome right down to how indivudual newspapers  would show their allegiance in the final couple of  weeks.  I spoke to him earlier today and we discussed the similarities to the scottish referndum re big business and every financial body trying to scare the hell out of you. He was laughing saying how the English had to show the Scottish how to do it . I said I was disappointed how the leave campaign had used immigration and he said ' yeah , it wasnt great but it was a means to an end to get what we wanted'. 

Anyone out there thinking this was a win for the left wing have been seriously conned.  

 

[Ally Bongo]

We live in interesting times

First it was almost J K Rowling declaring support for Indy

And now !

[Scunnered]

9 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Leave won because, unfortunately, there are more casual racists in the Uk than we would care to admit.  

I have a colleague who lives in London , very pro Brexit capitalist but not himself racist in any way i have ever noticed . He is a shrewd guy and predicted this outcome right down to how indivudual newspapers  would show their allegiance in the final couple of  weeks.  I spoke to him earlier today and we discussed the similarities to the scottish referndum re big business and every financial body trying to scare the hell out of you. He was laughing saying how the English had to show the Scottish how to do it . I said I was disappointed how the leave campaign had used immigration and he said ' yeah , it wasnt great but it was a means to an end to get what we wanted'. 

Anyone out there thinking this was a win for the left wing have been seriously conned.  

 

Capitalism could be abolished and capitalists would claim it's not a win for the left.

[Alan]

Fuxsake wasn't expecting that result but then I'm part of the "metropolitan elite". I don't get places like Basildon, Barnsley or Boston. Boroughs in London like Lambeth and Wandsworth voted to Remain more than Scotland as a whole and I lived and enjoyed these places.

It's nuts IMHO. For me the economy is the most important thing in elections. This debate was not about that. I'm in shock.

[Guest flumax]

24 minutes ago, Mindimoo said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-scottish-referendum-scotland-eu-remain-nicola-sturgeon-snp-a7100736.html

intereating scenario perhaps.

I mentioned this a few pages back before the vote. I hope it is on the table to avoid another crushing defeat for independence 

[Ally Bongo]

Just now, Alan said:

Fuxsake wasn't expecting that result but then I'm part of the "metropolitan elite". I don't get places like Basildon, Barnsley or Boston. Boroughs in London like Lambeth and Wandsworth voted to Remain more than Scotland as a whole and I lived and enjoyed these places.

It's nuts IMHO. For me the economy is the most important thing in elections. This debate was not about that. I'm in shock.

J K Rowling

The Daily Record

Alan ?

[kumnio]

Daily Record eh, whats going on. What a disastrous day for Scotland.

Edited June 24, 2016 by kumnio

[neilser]

16 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Leave won because, unfortunately, there are more casual racists in the Uk than we would care to admit.  

I have a colleague who lives in London , very pro Brexit capitalist but not himself racist in any way i have ever noticed . He is a shrewd guy and predicted this outcome right down to how indivudual newspapers  would show their allegiance in the final couple of  weeks.  I spoke to him earlier today and we discussed the similarities to the scottish referndum re big business and every financial body trying to scare the hell out of you. He was laughing saying how the English had to show the Scottish how to do it . I said I was disappointed how the leave campaign had used immigration and he said ' yeah , it wasnt great but it was a means to an end to get what we wanted'. 

Anyone out there thinking this was a win for the left wing have been seriously conned.  

 

I was worried about a Leave vote but genuinely thought there weren't enough blinkered people to swing it for Leave. It was jaw dropping watching Channel 4 news tonight when they interviewed people from Barnsley and Romford talking about Muslims, foreigners and Turks - I've genuinely not heard stuff like that up here. We're a different country.

[TDYER63]

4 minutes ago, Scunnered said:

Capitalism could be abolished and capitalists would claim it's not a win for the left.

He didnt claim it , I did. He doesnt give a fck. I would be saddened to think anyone thought I was a capitalist.

[Alan]

11 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

J K Rowling

The Daily Record

Alan ?

Nah our economy is more linked to rUK than EU and there is no way I want the €uro as my currency. EU has many problems. I wanted to change from within.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

14 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

J K Rowling

The Daily Record

Alan ?

Was thinking the same haha

[Ally Bongo]

1 minute ago, Alan said:

Nah our economy is more linked to rUK than EU and there is no way I want the €uro as my currency. EU has many problems. I wanted to change from within.

 

The RUK's economy might be a bit different very soon

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

If there is an upside apart from increasing the chances of Scottish Independence then i guess it will be not having to worry about TTIP anymore ?

 

 

Then again we just might end up with something even worse than TTIP. Don't forget what sort of folk are going to be in charge. NHS England is fuked either way. I just hope we get out before NHS Scotland get totally fuked as well.

[Alan]

13 minutes ago, neilser said:

I was worried about a Leave vote but genuinely thought there weren't enough blinkered people to swing it for Leave. It was jaw dropping watching Channel 4 news tonight when they interviewed people from Barnsley and Romford talking about Muslims, foreigners and Turks - I've genuinely not heard stuff like that up here. We're a different country.

Only because we have limited immigration. Every country in Europe had problems like this. France, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark are 4 with big challenges. People don't like change. Scotland is trying to deal with that exotic race called the Irish.

Imagine a group of black guys going into a pub in an old pit town in Fife, East Glasgow or darkest Ayrshire. Good luck.

You don't get that in London as it's an international city with prosperity and options. Other places with different mindsets.

[Scunnered]

16 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

He didnt claim it , I did. He doesnt give a fck. I would be saddened to think anyone thought I was a capitalist.

The UK has just removed itself from a Union which forbids socialism, forces austerity and will soon allow corporations to sue governments if their public services affect profits. It's very hard not to see that as anything other than a victory. Impossible even.

[Jaggy Jim]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Its not over till the fat lady sings and whose to say England have sacrificied themselves yet. Would not surprise me in the least if there wasnt some sort of bargaining started already to appease the UK and try to pull this back from the brink. I know this has been rejected but never say never. 

  

No way this will fly. Having watched a lot of the news coverage today it's obvious a lot of Leave voters did so as a middle finger to those they see as the political elite. To then see that political elite negotiate a way back in to the EU would lead to all sorts of trouble.

The news channels have spent the day looking for interviews with the most ignorant Leave voters they could find I think. I've seen a guy in Burnley who had no problem with immigrants coming from Europe but voted Leave to stop Muslims coming, a woman who didn't know why she voted Leave she 'just had', a guy who assumed it would be a Remain result but just wanted to make it closer and various other nonsensical reasons. Despite being in the Remain camp myself I accept there were valid reasons to vote Leave, but the news channels seemed to be struggling to find folk with such reasons. If they did they weren't broadcasting them. 

Hopefully this will all lead to a 2nd independence referendum and a Yes vote. Whether we're close to that I don't know, but I have been encouraged to see a couple of friends on Facebook who were very vocally No first time round sharing SNP articles today. Also had an English cousin who's very pro-union saying he wish he had a party like the SNP he could vote for south of the border and that he'd completely understand if Scotland went independent now.

[Orraloon]

Henry McLiesh finally comes out?

[thplinth]

Been a bit of a long day but also reasonably awesome. Went to bed last night a bit gloomy about our futures.

Going to bed tonight thinking a new indy ref is almost on the cards within 3 years and in a political landscape that makes a YES look far more likely. 

I dont think anyone expected this. It reminds me of the 70 seats out of nowhere and thus the chance from nowhere we were given for indy ref 1. Well this is another one, another unbelievable result, someone up there must like us, and we cant piss this one away.