Parklife Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Does anyone have a source or two for claims that this wasn't carried out by Assad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) On the face of it, Trump seems to be doing the right thing here. Chemical weapons are a red line. It's not like Assad hasn't been warned. It's important this red line is not blurred. caveated: "on the face of it" meaning based on what evidence there seems to be out there. However, who the hell knows what's true. Edited April 7, 2017 by PapofGlencoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Parklife said: Does anyone have a source or two for claims that this wasn't carried out by Assad? A source proving a negative? There is no evidence Assad has ever carried out a gas attack, and evidence the rebels have. I've not seen any evidence about who carried out this attack yet. Edited April 7, 2017 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Peter Hitchens (who i mostly disagree with (not neccesarily on this) but enjoy listening to) isnt happy http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2017/04/its-wmd-all-over-again-why-dont-you-see-it-.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipped flake Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Words fail me with this latest news. The west says Assad launched a chemical gas attack and the media just jogs along with them. The same west and media that told us all that Saddam had all these chamical weapons. Meanwhile, security experts are lining up to tell anyone who will listen that Assad using chemical gas makes absolutley no sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapofGlencoe Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 9 minutes ago, phart said: A source proving a negative? There is no evidence Assad has ever carried out a gas attack, and evidence the rebels have. I've not seen any evidence about who carried out this attack yet. I didn't know that. I thought it was only Assad that had used chemical weapons so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said: I didn't know that. I thought it was only Assad that had used chemical weapons so far. Nah Theo Postol of MIT did an analysis with a weapons inspector and the delivery system (missile) could only have been fired from inside rebel territory. Here's the paper, it's his conclusion which is corroborated by the UN independent commission as well. western media had it down as coming from deep inside "government territory" two separate and independent disagree and say it was Rebel Territory. https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1006045/possible-implications-of-bad-intelligence.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 2 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said: I didn't know that. I thought it was only Assad that had used chemical weapons so far. Yeah funny that. Most people would probably say the exact same thing. Assad gave up the chemical weapons to avoid being attacked. This was the deal Putin brokered and there have been inspectors checking since I understand. Now ok some will just say he squirreled some away... But it just does not make any sense at all. Assad would know exactly what would happen if he used them. It is all loss and no gain for him. Suicidal. Which is why I struggle to believe it was him behind it. Trump must know all this and if doesn't then that is even worse. Either way this is bad. Tillerson saying Assad must go now. Great put the lung eaters in charge I am sure that will work out well for the people of Syria and the wider refugee crisis. I think someone has managed to fill Trump's head with dubious intelligence / garbage. Basically this is like we had Hillary. Probably the most disappointing outcome possible. Maybe worse if Trump is actually this gullible. They could play him all day long with events like this... A lot depends on the next moves but on the surface this looks like a very poor decision. I wonder how much of an influence this guy has become... http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/look-at-this--asshole-1794077117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) My wife works for the OPCW. I'll let her have a look at this thread. She could do with cheering up just now before she's told to pack a bag and head to Syria..... Edited April 7, 2017 by Rossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 2 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said: I didn't know that. I thought it was only Assad that had used chemical weapons so far. I think you'll find that whoever the 'baddies' are at the time are usually deemed to be the culprits. I guess if you need a country to investigate chemical warfare you'd not do better than the Americans who've got lots of hands on practical experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 ex uk ambassador to Syria... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Frankly I don't know who to believe. I do however accept the images of gassed toddlers ae real. Horrible to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 33 minutes ago, EddardStark said: Frankly I don't know who to believe. I do however accept the images of gassed toddlers ae real. Horrible to see. All over the news here it's stupid fake Yanks with fake grief over these toddlers. The same fake fvkers who have never given two hoots about the countless children who have died at the hands of an American bomb over the last number of years. The same fake Yanks who while "grieving" today, will next year be screaming at Syrian children to go back home to where they are from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) It is a horrendous move by Trump. He has fhucked himself so badly with this it is astonishing. He is either incredibly naive or ten times more cynical than Clinton / Obama. Looks like Paris was the closest. Trump will be no different. edit: it is still very early but honestly I cant see past this one. It is so bad. If he learns a lesson from it maybe but he just murdered a dozen people based on bullshit so how do you roll that back in your mind. You don't you just double down and hope the demons go away... Edited April 7, 2017 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 5 hours ago, Rossy said: My wife works for the OPCW. I'll let her have a look at this thread. She could do with cheering up just now before she's told to pack a bag and head to Syria..... https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-press-release-on-allegations-of-chemical-weapons-use-in-southern-idlib-syria?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=OPCW Media Brief Reported Use of Chemical Weapons Southern Idlib Syria 4 April 2017&utm_content=OPCW Media Brief Reported Use of Chemical Weapons Southern Idlib Syria 4 April 2017+CID_11b6c9eb78d7f02db5aea82ea7383f98&utm_source=Email marketing software&utm_term=OPCW Press Release on Allegations of Chemical Weapons Use in Southern Idlib Syria They've already reported on the 2013 incident and made a press release about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Ormond said: All over the news here it's stupid fake Yanks with fake grief over these toddlers. The same fake fvkers who have never given two hoots about the countless children who have died at the hands of an American bomb over the last number of years. The same fake Yanks who while "grieving" today, will next year be screaming at Syrian children to go back home to where they are from! America is just done fire-bombing Mosul and killing a couple of hundred children by incineration. Plus extensive use of depleted uranium weapons all over the region, spiking all sort of cancer rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 4 hours ago, EddardStark said: Frankly I don't know who to believe. I do however accept the images of gassed toddlers ae real. Horrible to see. Yeah of course it happened, however why is there a picture of a guy holding two dead babies who were killed by chemical attack, yet the chemicals aren't affecting him, i'm assuming it was Sarin again. Weird that he can hug the corpses and not be affected by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, phart said: America is just done fire-bombing Mosul and killing a couple of hundred children by incineration. Plus extensive use of depleted uranium weapons all over the region, spiking all sort of cancer rates. Then there's this from a few years back. Which will suit the conspiracy theorists nicely. http://www.globalresearch.ca/deleted-daily-mail-online-article-us-backed-plan-for-chemical-weapon-attack-in-syria-to-be-blamed-on-assad/5339178 Edited April 7, 2017 by antidote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, antidote said: Then there's this from a few years back. Which will suit the conspiracy theorists nicely. http://www.globalresearch.ca/deleted-daily-mail-online-article-us-backed-plan-for-chemical-weapon-attack-in-syria-to-be-blamed-on-assad/5339178 Not even that, just before it, late november 2012 the rebels took over a munitions factory with chemical weapons, then we had videos of jihadi's gassing rabbits with them, and the Syrian Army then got attacked with it. If you're aware of the timeline and the independent reports you know the only people who have been proved to use Chemical Weapons are the rebels. This is all before you consider the tactical ineffectiveness of sarin, the timing of it all. Plus the only reason they had chemical weapons in the first place was to counter Israeli Nukes. and from your article https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/02/israel-grants-oil-rights-in-syria-to-murdoch-and-rothschild/ Edited April 7, 2017 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 The rebels can use chemical weapons no problem, burn people alive in cages, and generally do the most horrific shit imaginable and the US never bombs them. If Assad just looks at a chemical weapon they use it to attack Syria. Who do they think they are kidding here anymore? I think the only person who actually believes this laughable bullshit is Donald Trump! America supports terrorists and so does Donald Trump. He is as bad and probably worse than Clinton because he is clearly very naive and that is the worst of all. What a mug. I see the US is saying they are 'disappointed' in Russia's response... wow... it is the world who is disappointed in you Trump not the other way around. 10 weeks. Impressive. "Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev has remarked that it took the machine of power in the United States just ten weeks to "break" President Donald Trump’s election pledges. "Right after his (Trump’s) election I said that all will depend on how quickly the existing machine of power will break Trump’s election pledges," Medvedev said on his page in a social network. "It needed ten weeks." "By taking this military action (strikes against targets in Syria) the US administration has proved its extreme dependence on the opinion of the Washington establishment, which the new president criticized so strongly in his inauguration speech," Medvedev said. http://tass.com/politics/940148 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 The Russians have suspended the joint flight safety agreement they have with the US. I am not sure what that means exactly but I think it means if they go back in the Russians are saying you may be shot down. The russians had air defense systems capable of dealing with cruise missiles but they stood down and let the US attack. Next time I don't think they will. I can't squeeze a cigarette paper between Trump and what Clinton would be doing at this point. Brink of war stuff... 10 weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) “I’m hearing from sources on the ground in the Middle East, people who are intimately familiar with the intelligence that is available, who are saying that the essential narrative we are all hearing about the Syrian government or the Russians using chemical weapons on innocent civilians is a sham. “The intelligence confirms pretty much the account the Russians have been giving since [Wednesday] night, which is that they hit a warehouse where the rebels— now these are rebels connected with al-Qaeda— where the rebels were storing chemicals of their own and it basically caused an explosion that resulted in the casualties. “Apparently the intelligence on this is very clear. People both in the agency and in the military who are aware of the intelligence are freaking out about this because essentially Trump completely misrepresented what he already should have known but maybe didn’t. And they are afraid this is moving toward a situation that could easily turn into an armed conflict.” Philip Giraldi, former CIA and DIA officer Member, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity Interviewed on The Scott Horton Show Trump must know this... and yet he ordered the attacks anyway. It looks far worse than naive the more you look at it. Either way Trump is not coming out of this well. I think he is going to notice a significant change at his next rally. One term presidency almost guaranteed now. Amazing how fast he was turned. Just last week they were saying how replacing Assad was off the table... Now it is full bore lunacy and back to life on the brink. Situation normal then. Edited April 8, 2017 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 The airbase bombed shot down an Israeli Jet on March 17th. Israel is already selling off oil rights for parts of the Golan Heights in Syria, taking advantage of the war and extending their borders via "security buffers" I read in the papers today that countries around the world are rallying behind the US, yet if you actually watch the UN security council meeting. You have Bolivian representative doing this, trolling them about Anthrax and Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 It is so funny (peculiar) this. All these people who slagged Trump with endless baseless smears for months and months and now here finally we have something of real substance to criticize him about and they are silent, in fact they are praising him while his 'support' gets stuck in. Huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 As soon as the bombing starts, they start cheering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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