Scotland v Northern Ireland Match Thread

[dezmondo]

1 hour ago, Andy of Lochcarron said:

Mostly agree, the Dezmondo post must be a joke…… going into the ground we were subjected to a group of them singing ‘no surrender’ ‘up to their knees’ . The point is most of us are not offended or bothered by opposing fans chants, but the vile hate that they spout I do get bothered about as it has no place in our society present day….as i said previously anybody defending that shit probably has their leanings.

Some of the people commenting on this forum probably don’t go to matches at home let alone abroad- every single foreign national anthem is applauded by Scotland fans genuinely,except one.

I am nearly 66 & spent my whole life following Scotland everywhere & I am proud to be part of the TA, I behave with a welcoming cordial genial demeanour when in contact with opposing fans & so do the vast majority of the TA, I will make one exception where I have been attacked & spat on-on more than one occasion, (even once when I had my daughter & grandson with me) by the englunders for no apparent reason other than I had the kilt on. Not once have I have encountered such an issue elsewhere or with other opposition fans at Hampden.

i repeat anybody defending NI fans & for that matter engerlunders is for the ignorant

 

 

Definitely not a joke. I'm not defending anyone and I'm certainly not ignorant 😁.

I'm simply saying in reply to folk being offended by 'Scotland get battered' and songs about John Mcginn etc that I personally don't see what is that offensive. 

I don't particularly like a lot of their fans either but as I said - as a father of a son with special needs - a 1000 or so folk singing the Harry Kane song is far more offensive than anything that I heard the other night. I could list others.

 

Edited March 28 by dezmondo

[Andy of Lochcarron]

15 minutes ago, dezmondo said:

Definitely not a joke. I'm not defending anyone and I'm certainly not ignorant 😁.

I'm simply saying in reply to folk being offended by 'Scotland get battered' and songs about John Mcginn etc that I personally don't see what is that offensive. 

I don't particularly like a lot of their fans either but as I said - as a father of a son with special needs - a 1000 or so folk singing the Harry Kane song is far more offensive than anything that I heard the other night. I could list others.

 

Aye right…..songs about murdering catholics & utter hatred of Scotland….. you carry on

[Goozay]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:25 AM, Caledonian Craig said:

What chants were aggravating:-

Everywhere they go Scotland get battered....confrontational

John McGinn what a w***er what a w***er....confrontational

Something along lines of Euros your having a laugh.....confrontational

 

These are terrible examples of chants that are aggravating/confrontational

Everywhere they go Scotland get battered - we haven't won a game in the last seven. Lost 4-0 on Friday and were losing to Northern Ireland at the time. At the moment it does feel like the team get battered everywhere they go.

John McGinn - you're a wanker. Scotland fans sang this in Oslo to Haaland and its pretty standard to hear fans sing that about their opponent's best player. If anything its a compliment that a) they have heard of one your players and b) singled them out for attention. We've also got a song about Scotland having a party and Haaland being in his bed, is that aggravating/confrontational?

Off to the Euros - you're havin a laugh. They're right - we're off to the Euros and are playing some pretty worrying football on the pitch, whilst losing to Northern Ireland.

Fair enough criticising Northern Ireland for having GSTK and other bits and pieces that lean into the sectarian pish and alienate half their population, but the above examples are just standard football fare.

[Caledonian Craig]

6 minutes ago, Goozay said:

These are terrible examples of chants that are aggravating/confrontational

Everywhere they go Scotland get battered - we haven't won a game in the last seven. Lost 4-0 on Friday and were losing to Northern Ireland at the time. At the moment it does feel like the team get battered everywhere they go.

John McGinn - you're a wanker. Scotland fans sang this in Oslo to Haaland and its pretty standard to hear fans sing that about their opponent's best player. If anything its a compliment that a) they have heard of one your players and b) singled them out for attention. We've also got a song about Scotland having a party and Haaland being in his bed, is that aggravating/confrontational?

Off to the Euros - you're havin a laugh. They're right - we're off to the Euros and are playing some pretty worrying football on the pitch, whilst losing to Northern Ireland.

Fair enough criticising Northern Ireland for having GSTK and other bits and pieces that lean into the sectarian pish and alienate half their population, but the above examples are just standard football fare.

It wasn't just chanting though. Every time I looked over at them there was at least one with arms out-stretched towards us in a confrontational manner. Chants like I mentioned, at a stretch, you could pass off as banter but you see the ulterior motives of their chants in their body language. Arseholes who seem to have time warped from the 1970s and 80s.

[Goozay]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It wasn't just chanting though. Every time I looked over at them there was at least one with arms out-stretched towards us in a confrontational manner. Chants like I mentioned, at a stretch, you could pass off as banter but you see the ulterior motives of their chants in their body language. Arseholes who seem to have time warped from the 1970s and 80s.

Aye, there's always one of them with their arms out-stretched. 😂

And neither the police nor the stewards intervened, amazing.

[Shaundy]

That game was a reality check for playing a motivated team and increasing frustration as the game went . Though the chances did increase at the end . 
not shutting up the banter rich visiting supporters did not help. 
introduced to football in the 70’s I must admit to numerous hate offences in the company of hundreds sometimes thousands of other offenders. 
my first trip from central to mount Florida’78. The train fair bounced along to “if you hate the fukin English, clap your hands”   The songs at Elland road about the Yorkshire ripper and the adaptation of Brown Girl in the ring , not to mention the Munich ditties. The banter

did prefer the “lie down if you hate England “ and “you can stick your fukin hating up your arse” from France’98 . 
 

what were the possession figures! And as the Dutch coach said , it was “unbelievable “ that we hadn’t scored in their match. What’s like us , eh. 

[Grim Jim]

38 minutes ago, Goozay said:

Aye, there's always one of them with their arms out-stretched. 😂

And neither the police nor the stewards intervened, amazing.

Minor point, but they did intervene at half time.   Stewards were placed to maintain segregation between them and the lower south stand, so keeping those taunting back.

Re. national anthems, I had to watch the timing wee lass signing ours so I knew when to sing, as I couldn't hear a thing for the baying NI mob.

[Ak91]

4 hours ago, Andy of Lochcarron said:

Mostly agree, the Dezmondo post must be a joke…… going into the ground we were subjected to a group of them singing ‘no surrender’ ‘up to their knees’ . The point is most of us are not offended or bothered by opposing fans chants, but the vile hate that they spout I do get bothered about as it has no place in our society present day….as i said previously anybody defending that shit probably has their leanings.

Some of the people commenting on this forum probably don’t go to matches at home let alone abroad- every single foreign national anthem is applauded by Scotland fans genuinely,except one.

I am nearly 66 & spent my whole life following Scotland everywhere & I am proud to be part of the TA, I behave with a welcoming cordial genial demeanour when in contact with opposing fans & so do the vast majority of the TA, I will make one exception where I have been attacked & spat on-on more than one occasion, (even once when I had my daughter & grandson with me) by the englunders for no apparent reason other than I had the kilt on. Not once have I have encountered such an issue elsewhere or with other opposition fans at Hampden.

i repeat anybody defending NI fans & for that matter engerlunders is for the ignorant

 

 

So you are saying the Northern Irish supporters were singing up to their knees in f***** blood at an international? 

Surely you've misheard. I cannot see that being the case. 

[Ak91]

2 hours ago, Goozay said:

Aye, there's always one of them with their arms out-stretched. 😂

And neither the police nor the stewards intervened, amazing.

He must be at it. 

I've never not seen a few in the away section with their arms outstretched. 

[Andy of Lochcarron]

13 minutes ago, Ak91 said:

So you are saying the Northern Irish supporters were singing up to their knees in f***** blood at an international? 

Surely you've misheard. I cannot see that being the case. 

Aye they absolutely did

[Andy of Lochcarron]

Assume you being tongue in cheek tae

[0Neils40yarder]

23 hours ago, Malcolm said:

really?  These chants upset you?  I think we need only look to our own support for confrontational chants…. “Lizzys in a box”…. “Harry Kane licks the windows on the bus”… etc. booing their national anthem which I find very distasteful.

we all play by our own rules on this but my own personal view is that chants are sticks and stones stuff, but I do not like disrespect to another nations anthems.

 

You're being slightly obtuse on this one...that song is very much an issue for many Scots 

[Marky]

What is this arms outstretched thing?

I’m trying to picture it but cannae.

Can someone please post a photographic depiction?

Is it like this??

 

[Caledonian Craig]

No it was exactly like this. From not just one person and not just on one occassion:-

[Toepoke]

10 hours ago, Mitre said:

If those chants bother you I suggest you take up watching Lawn Bowls or something

Are you sure? Look at the aggressive offensive gesture in your avatar 😮

[thesaint]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No it was exactly like this. From not just one person and not just on one occassion:-

They wish.😂

[thesaint]

Anybody know what the attendance was given at?Whatever it was it was far too many to suffer that abject performance.

[DesiScotsman]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:23 AM, Goozay said:

This.

Tonight reminded me of Dublin, where player-for-player we were by far the better team, but on the pitch soundly beaten by a team that wanted it more. 

God love Steve Clarke, what does he do now? And how does he bide his time between now and June?

Start thinking of a plan b. For my liking we’ve just become very one dimensional and predictable in our play on what we are going to try and do. Our main asset threat in this formation was always the Tierney/Robertson link-up down the left flank but when opposition teams know how to combat that or one of them goes injured then we just look so lost and powderpuff. 

[Goozay]

10 hours ago, DesiScotsman said:

Start thinking of a plan b. For my liking we’ve just become very one dimensional and predictable in our play on what we are going to try and do. Our main asset threat in this formation was always the Tierney/Robertson link-up down the left flank but when opposition teams know how to combat that or one of them goes injured then we just look so lost and powderpuff. 

Would a "Plan B" include changing formation by putting Lewis Ferguson on when Robertson goes off injured?

Cause he tried that on Tuesday and it didn't have much impact...

[Scotty2Hotty]

17 minutes ago, Goozay said:

Would a "Plan B" include changing formation by putting Lewis Ferguson on when Robertson goes off injured?

Cause he tried that on Tuesday and it didn't have much impact...

Ehm... well actually trying out a different style of playing before the match starts would help so we can keep the opposition from knowing how we build up our play which is very predictable these days once again

[Caledonian Craig]

6 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Ehm... well actually trying out a different style of playing before the match starts would help so we can keep the opposition from knowing how we build up our play which is very predictable these days once again

Well there was actually a Plan B. When Robertson went off he was replaced with Lewis Ferguson. If no Plan B he could easily replaced him with Greg Taylor. So we went from 5-4-1 to 4-5-1. It took time but we faired better with the four at the back with no Robertson there. Perhaps something Clarke learnt.

However, I'd maybe have liked to have seen us start with two strikers but there you go.

Edited March 29 by Caledonian Craig

[BryanBlessed]

I'm a little more positive about this result now mainly because I think it meant a lot more to Northern Ireland. McGinn, Robertson and McTominay all still have a lot to play for in the league and if they're not at 100%, nor are we. I think NI shocked them as they were super aggressive for a friendly and I can understand our players not wanting to get injured. I aldi think a bit of complacency has set in around certain players as they kniw they're assured of a place in the starting 11. Clarke could have dropped McGinn or McTominay for Ferguson in one of these games to get that message across.

 

I think Patterson will come good but not until he gets out of Everton. 

We probably overperformed in qualifying and underperformed in our recent friendlies.

 

 

[Goozay]

29 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Ehm... well actually trying out a different style of playing before the match starts would help so we can keep the opposition from knowing how we build up our play which is very predictable these days once again

Hiya Scotty, nice to see you in a different thread.

Do you mean like we did against Georgia away and Norway at home, where we started with a different formation to our usual 5-4-1? Or Amsterdam last week where Christie was up with Shankland from the start in a 5-3-2 or 5-3-1-1. Certainly caught the Dutch by surprise, till they figured out we were having a goal drought. 

[Scotty2Hotty]

28 minutes ago, Goozay said:

Hiya Scotty, nice to see you in a different thread.

Do you mean like we did against Georgia away and Norway at home, where we started with a different formation to our usual 5-4-1? Or Amsterdam last week where Christie was up with Shankland from the start in a 5-3-2 or 5-3-1-1. Certainly caught the Dutch by surprise, till they figured out we were having a goal drought. 

You can't seriously use the Norway and Georgia games in particular as examples?

Norway at home - Clark in goal, Taylor at LB, Brown up top, McClean LM - Players who are nowhere near good enough even off the bench (barring Mcclean when closing a game out) so no point even reviewing this as all of these guys won't be near the first 11

Georgia - Clark iand Taylor starting, eurghhhh! Terrible performance, just devoid of any creativity. Again, didn't even bother starting Ferguson or try out Doig at LB who has a higher ceiling than Taylor

Holland - Played well in spells but got absolutely hammered second half in particular, scoreline doesn't lie...

Chrstie - we know what he is capable of in that AM role, why not play him in the position where he has been excelling in the one of the best leagues in the world - a little baffling. 

Wingers - Why don't we have any of these in the team? Everyone can see this so it is just baffling. 

NI - They completely snuffed us out due to the pattern of plays we were doing and have been doing for a very long time now that are predictable. It'll be even worse against the better teams. 

People need to get their head out the arse that not everything is rosie and questions have to be asked. As said before, I really like Clarke and has done great for us but that doesn't mean he can't be criticised either

 

 

[Goozay]

2 hours ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

You can't seriously use the Norway and Georgia games in particular as examples?

Norway at home - Clark in goal, Taylor at LB, Brown up top, McClean LM - Players who are nowhere near good enough even off the bench (barring Mcclean when closing a game out) so no point even reviewing this as all of these guys won't be near the first 11

Georgia - Clark iand Taylor starting, eurghhhh! Terrible performance, just devoid of any creativity. Again, didn't even bother starting Ferguson or try out Doig at LB who has a higher ceiling than Taylor

Holland - Played well in spells but got absolutely hammered second half in particular, scoreline doesn't lie...

Chrstie - we know what he is capable of in that AM role, why not play him in the position where he has been excelling in the one of the best leagues in the world - a little baffling. 

Wingers - Why don't we have any of these in the team? Everyone can see this so it is just baffling. 

NI - They completely snuffed us out due to the pattern of plays we were doing and have been doing for a very long time now that are predictable. It'll be even worse against the better teams. 

People need to get their head out the arse that not everything is rosie and questions have to be asked. As said before, I really like Clarke and has done great for us but that doesn't mean he can't be criticised either

 

 

I am seriously using the last two games of the campaign as examples.

Part of the reason folk think that you’re a troll is because you start posts with things like “are you for real?” and "you can’t be serious about…”. You are also prone to hyperbole, literally no one thinks everything is "rosie", so people's heads can all stay exactly where they are. 

Another reason folk think you’re a troll is because you jump around and constantly move the goalposts.

I was seriously using the last two games of the campaign to make a point out about the argument that Clarke doesn’t have a plan B because he hasn’t tried different style of play from the start of games. That’s a direct quote from you by the way “actually trying out a different style of playing before the match starts would help”.

We lined up differently in the last two games of the campaign, compared to how we started the other matches, and lined up differently again on Friday in Amsterdam. To suggest that Clarke doesn’t to try out different styles of play is clearly false.

We looked a bit shonky in defence in those last two games of the campaign because, as you rightly point out, we’ve got about 11 or 12 really good players, but if a couple of those players are injured or underperforming it really shows. It’s got nothing to do with Clarke not trying out different styles of play.

Similarly, we lost the game in Amsterdam because we failed to take any of the multiple chances that we created (while playing a different style of play than usual) and then switched off at the back in the final quarter. Lack of depth to the squad also came in to play as The Netherlands improved their attacking threat from the bench, whereas our bench weakened us overall.

TL/DR: our underperforming in recent matches has far more to do with lack of depth to the squad and very little to do with Steve Clarke not having a Plan B, which he clearly does – along with a Plan C and D.