Future Striker

[0Neils40yarder]

Just now, Caledonian Craig said:

And no goals in 16 is even more proof if you really need it. 

Scotland are on a forward path and revisiting serial failure McBurnie is regression not progression.

0 goals in 16...shite record 

1 goal in 10...shite record 

1 goal in 5...and it came against San Marino when already 3 up

 

The point is that you're more than happy to call Shankland and Nisbet, based on their dug-shit performances for Scotland but not McBurnie.

[Diamond Scot]

I dont understand why people are comparing McBurnie to Dykes and Adams. I dont think anybody is saying that he should be starting for us. Generally we have 3 strikers in our squad. With Dykes and Adams that leaves a slot for 1 more.

McBurnie should be in that conversation. As others have pointed out, Nisbett and Shanklands record for Scotland is also poor. Scoring 1 goal doesnt make you a "goalscorer" in the context of the debate we are having. For example if McBurnie had scored 1 in 16 would that mean he should be selected?

When McBurnie was playing we were a shambles. There were alot of players who would never play for Scotland again if all that was considered was how they performed in that period. Guys that have now gone on to be a big part of the success we are now having. Why should McBurnie be treated any differently.

For example David Marshall had a horrible record for goals conceeded when he 1st played. However years later got back in and did well for us for a period. 

If McBurnie is playing well, especially at a higher level than others then he should be given a chance. If he gets given a chance and doesnt perform in the current team then fair enough but it would be counter productive to discount a player based on performances years ago in a struggling side.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry that does not wash. If he were an eye-opening talent he would still have shone through but he did not - he stunk the place out.

As for saying he should be in alongside Dykes and Adams can I ask why? Merely, because he is at an EPL club? Those in the squad ahead of him (Shankland and Nesbit) have scored for us before in fewer games than McBurnie hence why they are in the squad. Nesbit scored against Netherlands. Okay Shanklands was against San Marino (I think) but McBurnie played against similar weak opponents without finding the net.

Go on, name the similarly weak teams McBurnie has played against.

Bet you can't.

 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

36 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Go on, name the similarly weak teams McBurnie has played against.

Bet you can't.

 

 

Faroe Islands

Cyprus

 

[0Neils40yarder]

13 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Faroe Islands

Cyprus

 

For a man that loves to talk stats...poorly

 

Here are a few;

San Marino have won 1 match in their entire history 

Faroe Islands have won 35

Cyprus have won 76

 

San Marino are in a different league to the two aforementioned countries altogether.

[ProudScot]

3 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

He scored double figures in the championship last season....more than Jacob Brown and more than Lyndon Dykes

He’s got above 1 goal once in the last 4 seasons 

[BryanBlessed]

I don't think McBurnie should be an automatic starter but at some point he's going to have to be considered for the squad as reports are that he's doing quite well for a struggling Sheffield Utd team. I also think he's a valuable asset when defending set pieces. Look at the first France goal against us and tell me McBurnie wouldn't have done better than Adams, for example.

 

I also don't think Adams and Dykes should be automatic picks. Dykes has made more of a case but neither of them are natural goalscorers in my opinion. You might think that one of their roles is to make decoy runs to create space for our attacking midfielders but this, to me, is similar to keepers being chosen because of their ability with their feet rather than their ability to save shots.   A number 9 is there to score goals will usually get a chance or two and I don't want that chance falling to Adams especially.

[GroundsKeeper]

Just my opinion.

Lyndon Dykes is the best we have at our disposal. I rate him highly not only for his goals but for his link up play.

Scott Mctominay has carried us this campaign but we musn't forget Dykes contribution in the crucial Oslo victory.

His link up play prior to the kenny Mclean winner was outstanding.

My concern is if the big man gets injured.

Adams for me is not international standard he wants too much time on the ball to go on his stronger foot.

McBurnie obviously got ample opportunity under previous managers and just looked too slow at international level.

Has he improved ? 

Other options Ross Stewart at Southampton, Ryan Hardie at Plymouth, Nisbett at Millwall, Shankland at hearts ?

We really need a back up to Dykes and for me Adams is not it.

Happy to be proved wrong

[theabsentee]

15 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont understand why people are comparing McBurnie to Dykes and Adams. I dont think anybody is saying that he should be starting for us. Generally we have 3 strikers in our squad. With Dykes and Adams that leaves a slot for 1 more.

McBurnie should be in that conversation. As others have pointed out, Nisbett and Shanklands record for Scotland is also poor. Scoring 1 goal doesnt make you a "goalscorer" in the context of the debate we are having. For example if McBurnie had scored 1 in 16 would that mean he should be selected?

When McBurnie was playing we were a shambles. There were alot of players who would never play for Scotland again if all that was considered was how they performed in that period. Guys that have now gone on to be a big part of the success we are now having. Why should McBurnie be treated any differently.

For example David Marshall had a horrible record for goals conceeded when he 1st played. However years later got back in and did well for us for a period. 

If McBurnie is playing well, especially at a higher level than others then he should be given a chance. If he gets given a chance and doesnt perform in the current team then fair enough but it would be counter productive to discount a player based on performances years ago in a struggling side. 

Very well said, I agree totally 

   I think we all agree Adams & Dykes are our 1st & 2nd choice only if either are injured or have a seriously terrible season would they not be selected.

 We also will know with a 23 man squad & the fact we almost always start with only 1 up means there's only a place for a maximum 1 more centre forward & in my opinion the best of the current bunch is Ross Stewart. I believe he is a very hard working player with a physical presence & pretty good technique. I reckon due to his workrate would suit or system & I would not be surprised at all if long term he replaces Dykes. I'm really looking forward to seeing how Stewart does at Southampton now he is close to fully fit.

    If any of the above 3 don't make it I rate McBurnie ahead of Shankland, Nisbet or Brown on current form & I trust McBurnie playing up top on his own a lot more than any of the other 3.

  Obviously still hope there's a place in the squad for a wide player & we all want that to be Doak .

[GroundsKeeper]

8 minutes ago, theabsentee said:

Very well said, I agree totally 

   I think we all agree Adams & Dykes are our 1st & 2nd choice only if either are injured or have a seriously terrible season would they not be selected.

 We also will know with a 23 man squad & the fact we almost always start with only 1 up means there's only a place for a maximum 1 more centre forward & in my opinion the best of the current bunch is Ross Stewart. I believe he is a very hard working player with a physical presence & pretty good technique. I reckon due to his workrate would suit or system & I would not be surprised at all if long term he replaces Dykes. I'm really looking forward to seeing how Stewart does at Southampton now he is close to fully fit.

    If any of the above 3 don't make it I rate McBurnie ahead of Shankland, Nisbet or Brown on current form & I trust McBurnie playing up top on his own a lot more than any of the other 3.

  Obviously still hope there's a place in the squad for a wide player & we all want that to be Doak .

I am not convinced about Doak and I don't think Clarke is either or he would have been called up for Lille game.

Hes's certainly one for the future though but Germany may be too soon?

[Tartan blood]

2 hours ago, BryanBlessed said:

 

 You might think that one of their roles is to make decoy runs to create space for our attacking midfielders but this, to me, is similar to keepers being chosen because of their ability with their feet rather than their ability to save shots.   A number 9 is there to score goals will usually get a chance or two and I don't want that chance falling to Adams especially.

This is an extremely important point that I'm sure isn't lost on Clarke. Making decoy runs, holding the ball up, making assists etc gives Dykes and Adams value. And I'm glad we have them. But give me a 1 dimensional poacher that scores tap ins all day long. We create so many great chances and are quite reliant on our midfielders to chip in with goals. 

The rest of the team could relax into their natural role if they knew we had a reliable finisher up top. McGinn and McTominay might score less goals, but I'd much rather have them creating chances and battling it out in the midfield, instead of being expected to score.

Of all the names mentioned on this thread, I'd say Nisbet fits that role the best. I.e a predatory striker. But he needs to go on a bit of a scoring run at Millwall to justify starts for us first.

[BryanBlessed]

 

12 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

This is an extremely important point that I'm sure isn't lost on Clarke. Making decoy runs, holding the ball up, making assists etc gives Dykes and Adams value. And I'm glad we have them. But give me a 1 dimensional poacher that scores tap ins all day long. We create so many great chances and are quite reliant on our midfielders to chip in with goals. 

The rest of the team could relax into their natural role if they knew we had a reliable finisher up top. McGinn and McTominay might score less goals, but I'd much rather have them creating chances and battling it out in the midfield, instead of being expected to score.

Of all the names mentioned on this thread, I'd say Nisbet fits that role the best. I.e a predatory striker. But he needs to go on a bit of a scoring run at Millwall to justify starts for us first.

 

As long as we're winning I suppose but I just think of all the chances wasted by Adams. The last time he scored against top opposition he'd already missed a near-open goal (though it was later flagged for offside) and he's done nothing since to justify his inclusion as far as I'm concerned. The bottom line is that he's not a number 9 but we have better number 10's than him so I don't really see why he should be certain to go to Germany.

 

None of our strikers are currently lighting up any of the leagues they play in at the moment, unfortunately.

[Diamond Scot]

38 minutes ago, GroundsKeeper said:

I am not convinced about Doak and I don't think Clarke is either or he would have been called up for Lille game.

Hes's certainly one for the future though but Germany may be too soon?

He was injured. Clarke was at the U21 game.

He subsequently callled up Max Johnstone so its not out of the question that he would have called up Doak aswell.

Personally id like to have him spend some time training with the main squad but I agree that he isnt quite ready to play as yet.

[GroundsKeeper]

Excuse my ignorance, but has Doak started a EPL game.

I think he started in the Europa league and I agree that he is a promising talent.

But to get in this squad you need to be fully establish regular starter at your club

Doak clearly isnt.

If he was a striker I think he would be in squad, though. But he isn't.

There is an argument that we haven't replaced Ryan Fraser though and for the same reasons he won't be considered.

[theabsentee]

42 minutes ago, GroundsKeeper said:

I am not convinced about Doak and I don't think Clarke is either or he would have been called up for Lille game.

Hes's certainly one for the future though but Germany may be too soon? 

Lille was definitely too soon but a lot can happen before Germany.

[aaid]

18 hours ago, Orraloon said:

That's very harsh.

McClair wasn't very good, but he was nowhere near McBurnie level of shitness.

McClair was a good player at two very good clubs.

[GroundsKeeper]

Sorry if this has already been covered before.

Ross Stewart, he recently moved from Sunderland to Southampton?

The rumour was that the saints were going to sell Che Adams , so got Stewart in.

Che was retained and both are at Southampton.

Was Stewart injured when he moved? 

Would be interesting to see if Stewart and Adams can link up at club level.

This could be an asset for Clarke.

 

 

 

 

[BryanBlessed]

I think someone mentioned a Stewart/Adams combination in previous pages and I don't think anyone would be against club partnerships being brought to international level. However, I don't think Clarke fancies Stewart (or McBurnie) for that matter so he'd really have to have his hand forced.

 

I reckon, at the moment, it's probaly Dykes/Brown/Adams going to Germany. I don't necessarily agree with that but I'm pretty sure it'll be Clarke's choice.

[theabsentee]

16 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

 

 

As long as we're winning I suppose but I just think of all the chances wasted by Adams. The last time he scored against top opposition he'd already missed a near-open goal (though it was later flagged for offside) and he's done nothing since to justify his inclusion as far as I'm concerned. The bottom line is that he's not a number 9 but we have better number 10's than him so I don't really see why he should be certain to go to Germany.

 

None of our strikers are currently lighting up any of the leagues they play in at the moment, unfortunately.

Adams is strong & pretty quick & a good technical player but of course he has his limits as he certainly isn't a natural finisher but not many of our choices are.  I think it'd be madness to consider dropping him for some of the options we have . Okay he might have been poor on his last couple of Scotland outings but we should remember how good he has been in the past. If he is on form he is a great asset for us.

  I only see Stewart as a genuine threat to his or more so Dykes places in the starting line up the rest simply aren't good enough.

  Nisbet might be a good finisher but I don't think he works hard enough to play up front alone. 

Shankland decent technique but not quick or strong enough to play up top alone I don't think.

Brown looked good against France but let's not kid ourselves, Stoke fans had mixed feelings about him, he is apparently fast, strong & committed player but poor technique & decision making holds him back . Very similar player to Oli Burke I reckon.

McBurnie a seriously good defender of set pieces & would be a real asset to bring off the bench if we're under pressure in the Euros protecting a lead late in a game but he is a forward so we need to judge him in the opposition box . In that regard it hasn't worked for him so far for Scotland .

[GroundsKeeper]

Not suggesting we drop Adams, he's the best we have.

But we will go to Germany with three strikers.

Who will that be and is he capable of doing a job at international level?

How's Griffiths getting on in Australia ? Was semi joking but what a waste of talent. 

 

[BryanBlessed]

16 minutes ago, theabsentee said:

Adams is strong & pretty quick & a good technical player but of course he has his limits as he certainly isn't a natural finisher but not many of our choices are.  I think it'd be madness to consider dropping him for some of the options we have . Okay he might have been poor on his last couple of Scotland outings but we should remember how good he has been in the past. If he is on form he is a great asset for us.

  I only see Stewart as a genuine threat to his or more so Dykes places in the starting line up the rest simply aren't good enough.

  Nisbet might be a good finisher but I don't think he works hard enough to play up front alone. 

Shankland decent technique but not quick or strong enough to play up top alone I don't think.

Brown looked good against France but let's not kid ourselves, Stoke fans had mixed feelings about him, he is apparently fast, strong & committed player but poor technique & decision making holds him back . Very similar player to Oli Burke I reckon.

McBurnie a seriously good defender of set pieces & would be a real asset to bring off the bench if we're under pressure in the Euros protecting a lead late in a game but he is a forward so we need to judge him in the opposition box . In that regard it hasn't worked for him so far for Scotland .

I wonder what Southampton fans think of Adams and I wonder what QPR fans think of Dykes, though.

 

I'm not suggesting completely dropping him but I am suggesting that none of our strikers should be guaranteed a spot on the plane. 

 

Let's look at it another way: imagine none of them had every played for Scotland before. You have one forward in a struggling championship team and one in a mid-table championship team. You then have two forwards who are playing in the EPL (albeit also in struggling teams). I know it doesn't work like that but it's food for thought.

 

There is a fine line between loyalty and too much loyalty. In the next squad, I'd have Brown and McBurnie in and no Shankland or Nesbit (much as I think Shankland is a decent player) and Brown to get his chance.

[ceudmilefailte]

15 hours ago, ProudScot said:

He’s got above 1 goal once in the last 4 seasons 

In the 3 seasons he hasn't got above I goal he started 5,9 and 11 games and 2 of those seasons were in the EPL. 

No one has said he should start ahead of Dykes or Adams, but if you think he is behind Shankland, Nisbet and Brown you are totally clueless. 

Jury is still out as regards Stewart. 

[GroundsKeeper]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

In the 3 seasons he hasn't got above I goal he started 5,9 and 11 games and 2 of those seasons were in the EPL. 

No one has said he should start ahead of Dykes or Adams, but if you think he is behind Shankland, Nisbet and Brown you are totally clueless. 

Jury is still out as regards Stewart. 

Totally agree on stewart, he needs game time at international level.

Will be interesting to see if he can get some goals at Southampton and be considered for the next squad.

4 scots now at Southamption,

Armstrong,

Che Adams,

Ryan Fraser ( on loan from the toon)

and the afore mentioned Stewart

[Dave78]

Stumbled across this interview with John Carver on youtube that i thought was interesting.

He says "we're searching every nook and cranny for a striker". He also says Ryan Gauld is still "on the radar".

Video should start at the appropriate bit:

 

 

[stitch]

Not a bad interview, I wonder how long he will stay as a coach? He did mention that he wants to go back over there. 

It would be nice to know who the players are from the MLS with a Scottish connection. Does anyone know who he was talking about