World Rankings.....🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Big Ramy 1314]

Should we even be bothered with these stats? Does it help us in seedings, pots, qualifying set up? Does the corrupt Uefa even bother with these stats? Just curious... Great for us mind you. Proud of the boys...🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Big Ramy 1314]

Just now, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Should we even be bothered with these stats? Does it help us in seedings, pots, qualifying set up? Does the corrupt Uefa even bother with these stats? Just curious... Great for us mind you. Proud of the boys...🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

https://www.facebook.com/100064777685675/posts/pfbid02YdU8wC3TaP8QGZdsmpwiKnPrdwXRxRQh6Sxxioi9TLoUy5fVyyRiiBWA8fgTjzXQl/?sfnsn=mo&mibextid=6aamW6

[morrie21]

It's all related. Keep winning, inevitably world ranking will rise and so will the prospects of being seeded in a higher pot for future qualifying draws. Hopefully the team keep the current good run and good feeling going for as long as possible. The rest will take care of itself!

[Barry89]

For the World Cup qualifiers draw in December 2024 it'll be 12 groups of 4 or 5 which means as things stand the pots would be (assuming Russia are still suspended)

Pot 1 - France, England, Belgium, Croatia, Netherlands, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden

Pot 2 - Ukraine, Serbia, Poland, Austria, Scotland, Wales, Hungary, Czechia, Turkiye, Norway, Slovakia, Romania

Pot 3 - Greece, Ireland, Finland, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Northern Ireland, Albania, Iceland, Montenegro, Israel, Bulgaria, Georgia

Pot 4 - Luxembourg, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Estonia, Cyprus, Azerbaijan, Faroe Islands, Latvia, Lithuania, Andorra

Pot 5 - Moldova, Malta, Gibraltar, Liechtenstein, San Marino

 

There's not a massive amount of ranking points separating everyone from Sweden to Scotland so there is a small chance of sneaking pot 1 but it would be difficult with us being in Nations League A next year when some above us will be in League B or C with more winnable games. The other side of that is if we were to get some wins against higher ranked teams then it would be worth more than other teams winning v lower ranked sides.

 

[Big Ramy 1314]

Fair enough lads. I thought they were a load of pish. Some countries ranked higher than other that shouldnae be, like the US and Mexico. Concacaf is a joke. Anyway cheers for that. Hopefully it benefits our seedings in the future..

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Barry89 said:

For the World Cup qualifiers draw in December 2024 it'll be 12 groups of 4 or 5 which means as things stand the pots would be (assuming Russia are still suspended)

Pot 1 - France, England, Belgium, Croatia, Netherlands, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden

Pot 2 - Ukraine, Serbia, Poland, Austria, Scotland, Wales, Hungary, Czechia, Turkiye, Norway, Slovakia, Romania

Pot 3 - Greece, Ireland, Finland, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Northern Ireland, Albania, Iceland, Montenegro, Israel, Bulgaria, Georgia

Pot 4 - Luxembourg, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Estonia, Cyprus, Azerbaijan, Faroe Islands, Latvia, Lithuania, Andorra

Pot 5 - Moldova, Malta, Gibraltar, Liechtenstein, San Marino

 

There's not a massive amount of ranking points separating everyone from Sweden to Scotland so there is a small chance of sneaking pot 1 but it would be difficult with us being in Nations League A next year when some above us will be in League B or C with more winnable games. The other side of that is if we were to get some wins against higher ranked teams then it would be worth more than other teams winning v lower ranked sides.

 

Do teams get more ranking points for beating higher ranked teams? That must be newish because it wasn't always like that. 

[Barry89]

5 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Do teams get more ranking points for beating higher ranked teams? That must be newish because it wasn't always like that. 

Yes it does, think you are right that it's maybe only been the last few years or so.

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/fifa-world-ranking-technical-explanation-revision.pdf?cloudid=edbm045h0udbwkqew35a

This PDF from FIFA explains it in great detail but essentially the importance of the match (i.e friendly, qualifier, tournament match etc), the result of the match and the expected result (based on difference in rankings between the 2 teams) are all taken into account now.

[Texas Pete]

3 hours ago, Barry89 said:

For the World Cup qualifiers draw in December 2024 it'll be 12 groups of 4 or 5 which means as things stand the pots would be (assuming Russia are still suspended)

Pot 1 - France, England, Belgium, Croatia, Netherlands, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden

Pot 2 - Ukraine, Serbia, Poland, Austria, Scotland, Wales, Hungary, Czechia, Turkiye, Norway, Slovakia, Romania

Pot 3 - Greece, Ireland, Finland, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Northern Ireland, Albania, Iceland, Montenegro, Israel, Bulgaria, Georgia

Pot 4 - Luxembourg, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Estonia, Cyprus, Azerbaijan, Faroe Islands, Latvia, Lithuania, Andorra

Pot 5 - Moldova, Malta, Gibraltar, Liechtenstein, San Marino

 

There's not a massive amount of ranking points separating everyone from Sweden to Scotland so there is a small chance of sneaking pot 1 but it would be difficult with us being in Nations League A next year when some above us will be in League B or C with more winnable games. The other side of that is if we were to get some wins against higher ranked teams then it would be worth more than other teams winning v lower ranked sides.

 

At least 3 or 4 of the teams ranked just above us are in danger of not qualifying for Euro 2024 so if we could qualify well and win a few games in Germany and not disgrace ourselves in the Nations League next year then you just never know. 

It’s a pity the World Cup pots are not determined by the Nations League as we’d only need to finish 3rd in our group to be a pot 1 team. Not that finishing 3rd will be easy. 

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Barry89 said:

Yes it does, think you are right that it's maybe only been the last few years or so.

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/fifa-world-ranking-technical-explanation-revision.pdf?cloudid=edbm045h0udbwkqew35a

This PDF from FIFA explains it in great detail but essentially the importance of the match (i.e friendly, qualifier, tournament match etc), the result of the match and the expected result (based on difference in rankings between the 2 teams) are all taken into account now.

Aye, that bit must be quite new, I think. It makes more sense to use that bit as well. 

[N4Footsoldier]

Don't get me wrong I'm not tugging myself off over the world rankings, but they are a necessary marker. Especially when considering European rankings.

At the end of the day success breeds success. You can start to see how most of the same nations qualify for tournaments through having favourable qualification seeding. Greece lived off their Euro 2004 win for at least 10 years fs, until everything eventually evened out seeing as they actually aren't very good at all.

Do a job over the next 12-18months and I dare say we could line ourselves up for relative success for another decade. Especially as a lot of the current squad still have a good 8-10 of their best years left in them

[Texas Pete]

2 hours ago, N4Footsoldier said:

Don't get me wrong I'm not tugging myself off over the world rankings, but they are a necessary marker. Especially when considering European rankings.

At the end of the day success breeds success. You can start to see how most of the same nations qualify for tournaments through having favourable qualification seeding. Greece lived off their Euro 2004 win for at least 10 years fs, until everything eventually evened out seeing as they actually aren't very good at all.

Do a job over the next 12-18months and I dare say we could line ourselves up for relative success for another decade. Especially as a lot of the current squad still have a good 8-10 of their best years left in them

The overall world rankings are an absolute nonsense in terms of teams like the USA, Mexico and Iran etc. being ranked higher than they possibly should be given they play against absolute dross most of the time but the more you win the higher you are in the rankings and as long as the world rankings are used to determine the seeding pots for World Cup qualifying groups they will always be important. 

If we could somehow get into the top 12 in Europe (currently 24th in the world rankings - 6 places higher than we are now) and stay there at least until the cut off for the World Cup draw next year then it could give us a massive boost in our chances of reaching the next World Cup. 

[Texas Pete]

We are still number 1 in the unofficial world rankings so the rest of the world can get that right up them. 

[Big Ramy 1314]

Question, what is the highest we have ever been ranked? I would believe it to be in the 60s or 70s..

[Big Ramy 1314]

Just now, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Question, what is the highest we have ever been ranked? I would believe it to be in the 60s or 70s..

The year I meant, 60s and 70s.. 🤣

[Texas Pete]

7 minutes ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Question, what is the highest we have ever been ranked? I would believe it to be in the 60s or 70s..

World rankings were only introduced in the 90s I think. I think our highest ranking was 13th during McLeish’s first term. 

[Big Ramy 1314]

4 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

World rankings were only introduced in the 90s I think. I think our highest ranking was 13th during McLeish’s first term. 

Oh, OK then. Cheers ma man. Think we would have been in the top ten back in the 60, 70s though..

[Texas Pete]

3 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Oh, OK then. Cheers ma man. Think we would have been in the top ten back in the 60, 70s though..

Aye more than likely. International football back then was probably more like international Rugby is these days in terms at how many very good teams there are. Scotland are ranked 5th in the world at the moment but that sounds far more impressive than it actually is. 

[ceudmilefailte]

3 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Oh, OK then. Cheers ma man. Think we would have been in the top ten back in the 60, 70s though..

Don't think our performances in world cups in the 50's 60's and 70's suggest we would have been in the top ten.

Maybe in the 30's but we thought the world cup waas beneath us so didn't enter, so we can't say for sure.

We were in the 1870's I am pretty sure of that.

[mccaughey85]

4 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

World rankings were only introduced in the 90s I think. I think our highest ranking was 13th during McLeish’s first term. 

Its mad to think we reached 13th. Fair enough we beat france twice but we only had a spell of maybe 2 years where our form was good and even then we didnt end up qualifying.

Not sure how we were able to get as high as that. I would argue our run in the last 2 years has been slightly better overall yet we are currently only 30th which is probably a fairer placement imo.

[Grim Jim]

@ceudmilefailte  😅   We were even better in the 1880's   Undefeated 1880-1887.

2nd ranked England must have enjoyed pumping the Unofficial World Champs at the 2nd Hampden 0-5 in 1888 🤕

Apologies for this source!

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Its mad to think we reached 13th. Fair enough we beat france twice but we only had a spell of maybe 2 years where our form was good and even then we didnt end up qualifying.

Not sure how we were able to get as high as that. I would argue our run in the last 2 years has been slightly better overall yet we are currently only 30th which is probably a fairer placement imo.

The way the world rankings were determined have changed since then I think so we probably would have been nowhere near 13th back then if the rankings worked the same was as they do now. 

We were in a false position when we were 13th. No way were we the 13th best team in the world. It didn’t last long either. 

[rOsCo2]

Was it not Switzerland or somebody like that who played the rankings a bit by avoiding friendlies in the lead up to a WC? I'm sure I remember reading they pipped Italy into a seeding in a WC draw and it was down to canny selection of friendlies.

[Judith]

49 minutes ago, rOsCo2 said:

Was it not Switzerland or somebody like that who played the rankings a bit by avoiding friendlies in the lead up to a WC? I'm sure I remember reading they pipped Italy into a seeding in a WC draw and it was down to canny selection of friendlies.

Could be right.

Maybe one of the reasons you are not allowed a free international date these days. If you dont have a qualifier or a Nations League tie you must arrange a friendly or UEFA do it for you.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Judith

[Toepoke]

On 7/1/2023 at 4:08 PM, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Oh, OK then. Cheers ma man. Think we would have been in the top ten back in the 60, 70s though..

The unofficial Elo ratings had us ranked #4 in the world prior to Argentina 78...

https://www.eloratings.net/Scotland

 

[Big Ramy 1314]

14 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

The unofficial Elo ratings had us ranked #4 in the world prior to Argentina 78...

https://www.eloratings.net/Scotland

 

That's what I thought TP. We had some talent back then, bit of luck we could have won a World Cup.. We could compete with anyone in that era..🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿