Indyref 2 (2)

[aaid]

7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Oh it would still be argued against. We have it everytime the SNP does well in elections. Unionist MPs stand there and say not all SNP voters support independence but insist all Labour, Tory and LibDem voters support the union. That is the kind of warped biased world they live in along with the mainstream media.

"with a straight face"

That means without everyone else - even people opposed to Indy - going "Aye right".

We're nowhere near there yet

[StirlingEgg]

19 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I think the fact some Scots sincerely believe

a) Scotland would not get into the EU, and

b) The EU (who are not particularly hoping for the break of the UK) are going to guarantee anything until such time as Scotland actually is independent is very revealing of our fecklessness as a nation.

We have otherwise intelligent people telling us Slovakia and Bulgaria can be in the EU but Scotland cannot.  They walk among us.  

I can't be bothered regurgitating the comebacks on every indy point that much anymore, but that one always gets on my wick.  It's like a throwaway line.  If there are people who sincerely need a guarantee, those ones will never come over.  

 

I was picking up the car from its MOT not so long ago and there was a discussion in the office about independence. I was the only one for it out of 4 folk including the mechanic. They all seemed to make mostly misguided or incorrect points against it which strangely made it even more difficult to comeback on. One didn't think the EU benefitted us, another criticised the lack of new houses built by Scotgov and the mechanic guy didn't realise that the Health Services were separate. He didn't believe me because of it being called The NATIONAL Health Service (his emphasis!). I didn't know where to start. 

Another example is a Scottish family member who lives in England and states that Farage "has got something" 🙄 I mentioned that he rarely turned up for his meetings as an MEP and now takes a decent EU pension. This was met with "but the SNP don't take their seats at WM". Turns out he was quite clueless about the difference between MPs and MSPs and therefore the basics of the UK political system. 

It's just quite depressing and makes you a bit weary about the whole thing. I often fall into the trap of thinking folk will arrive at the same conclusions whenever there's another UK govt initiated issue. The Unionists highlight the more complex questions such as currency but there's a lot more ignorance around fundamental stuff. Not sure if the media/political commentators are wilfully happy to keep it that way or just as ignorant at times. 

Sorry for rambling on...

 

 

 

[Och Aye]

33 minutes ago, StirlingEgg said:

I was picking up the car from its MOT not so long ago and there was a discussion in the office about independence. I was the only one for it out of 4 folk including the mechanic. They all seemed to make mostly misguided or incorrect points against it which strangely made it even more difficult to comeback on. One didn't think the EU benefitted us, another criticised the lack of new houses built by Scotgov and the mechanic guy didn't realise that the Health Services were separate. He didn't believe me because of it being called The NATIONAL Health Service (his emphasis!). I didn't know where to start. 

Another example is a Scottish family member who lives in England and states that Farage "has got something" 🙄 I mentioned that he rarely turned up for his meetings as an MEP and now takes a decent EU pension. This was met with "but the SNP don't take their seats at WM". Turns out he was quite clueless about the difference between MPs and MSPs and therefore the basics of the UK political system. 

It's just quite depressing and makes you a bit weary about the whole thing. I often fall into the trap of thinking folk will arrive at the same conclusions whenever there's another UK govt initiated issue. The Unionists highlight the more complex questions such as currency but there's a lot more ignorance around fundamental stuff. Not sure if the media/political commentators are wilfully happy to keep it that way or just as ignorant at times. 

Sorry for rambling on...

 

 

 

Pretty disheartening for sure.

But I'll say it again. The vast majority of people do not look in-depth in what is actually happening in politics and I include well educated and successful people. They are just headline readers. This is the challenge the next independence campaign faces and has to be clear with no questions left to uncertainty eg currently, EU membership, etc. 

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, Och Aye said:

Pretty disheartening for sure.

But I'll say it again. The vast majority of people do not look in-depth in what is actually happening in politics and I include well educated and successful people. They are just headline readers. This is the challenge the next independence campaign faces and has to be clear with no questions left to uncertainty eg currently, EU membership, etc. 

'Headline readers' back to one of my bugbears. Going round the supermarket on Sunday, one of the tabloids had Hunt trumpeting 'Im going to cut inflation by half'. Made sure I commented very loudly to my wife that it was his party that caused it be so high in the first place!

[Orraloon]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:22 AM, Hertsscot said:

'Headline readers' back to one of my bugbears. Going round the supermarket on Sunday, one of the tabloids had Hunt trumpeting 'Im going to cut inflation by half'. Made sure I commented very loudly to my wife that it was his party that caused it be so high in the first place!

Ah, that old trick to try and get out of doing the shopping? Disnae work.

[hampden_loon2878]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:57 AM, Och Aye said:

Pretty disheartening for sure.

But I'll say it again. The vast majority of people do not look in-depth in what is actually happening in politics and I include well educated and successful people. They are just headline readers. This is the challenge the next independence campaign faces and has to be clear with no questions left to uncertainty eg currently, EU membership, etc. 

correct, that’s why the scottish government should stay clear of any stupid ass policies that are easily attacked like the GRA, oil and gas stance ect.. they are easy to use as a tool for headline attacks that filter into the general perception of general voters 

[hampden_loon2878]

not great polling for the snp in the reidfield latest polling 

[aaid]

15 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

not great polling for the snp in the reidfield latest polling 

Redfield Wilton’s polling is all over the place.   SNP an Labour level on 35% for WM, SNP with a nine point lead for Holyrood Constituency on 39% but in second place on the list with 25%.  All very counter-intuitive.

[Caledonian Craig]

I think the way things are going now the only way we will see another independence referendum is after a generation has passed so I hope that Westminster are held to their word on that. A generation being 25 years (so I believe) so that would be 2039. Jeez....depressing thought. 

[Shaundy]

The UK is ending next year. Pass it on . They already know it . 

[hampden_loon2878]

7 hours ago, aaid said:

Redfield Wilton’s polling is all over the place.   SNP an Labour level on 35% for WM, SNP with a nine point lead for Holyrood Constituency on 39% but in second place on the list with 25%.  All very counter-intuitive.

Tbh I don’t usually pay attention to that pollster, as you say they seem all over the place, how did this new pollster spring up and who is behind it? 

 

[aaid]

44 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Tbh I don’t usually pay attention to that pollster, as you say they seem all over the place, how did this new pollster spring up and who is behind it? 

 

They’re relatively new but no reason to suggest anything other than them being a bit incompetent, they do seem to be polling regularly though.

The guy that does ballot box Scotland has stopped analysing their polls and including them in his trackers as he thinks they’re overestimating badly the smaller parties - and he’s a Green - do you think the Greens are really only one point behind the Tories on the list vote?

I’d be a lot happier seeing polls from a selection of different companies. 
 

https://x.com/ballotboxscot/status/1699526758259671379?s=61&t=MHJIOYAKuUpVTHulpYS2rQ

[Ally Bongo]

[aaid]

3 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Since you see to think that it’s all to do with wokish policies then why are the SNP seemingly leaking votes to the “Green extremists”?

[Dave78]

13 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

 A generation being 25 years (so I believe) so that would be 2039. Jeez....depressing thought. 

It'll be a bit less than that i think:

 

First devolution referendum, 1979
.
.
<18 years>
.
.
Second devolution referendum, 1997
.
.
<17 years>
.
.
First independence referendum, 2014
.
.
(Pencil indyref2 in for 2032)

 

[Hertsscot]

21 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I think the way things are going now the only way we will see another independence referendum is after a generation has passed so I hope that Westminster are held to their word on that. A generation being 25 years (so I believe) so that would be 2039. Jeez....depressing thought. 

I won't trust Westminster's word on anything!

[Caledonian Craig]

2 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I won't trust Westminster's word on anything!

Sadly, far too many Scots do trust Westminster.

[Redz]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:02 AM, Caledonian Craig said:

Sadly, far too many Scots do trust Westminster.

Hold on to the fact that the majority of 'Scots' actually voted YES in 2014

The scaremongering of the non nationals largely won the day

The latter won't wash next time, whenever that might be!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

Edited September 10, 2023 by Redz
Add Link

[Ally Bongo]

Wonder how this will be spun

https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-tale-of-two-nations/

[hampden_loon2878]

On 9/10/2023 at 1:48 PM, Redz said:

Hold on to the fact that the majority of 'Scots' actually voted YES in 2014

The scaremongering of the non nationals largely won the day

The latter won't wash next time, whenever that might be!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

The scary bit for me is the trickle of information coming out in the census, Scot’s born here down while the population going up,, I have stated on here the amount of retired,disabled or single parent residents from south of the border that have appears since 2014,, the place is being over run by them,, I honestly believe there is an active push to have non contributive English folk move north of the border, I know a lady who does crisis grants who has spoke to various English folk who have said as much

[TDYER63]

12 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Wonder how this will be spun

https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-tale-of-two-nations/

I never read Wings for no other reason than time restrictions .Looking at those comments I am glad I don’t. I cant differentiate unionists from nationalists which should be a bigger alarm bell than an administration entry. I dont think i have ever come across a form that lists Scottish as an option so rarely scroll down further than B  . 

[Alibi]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I never read Wings for no other reason than time restrictions .Looking at those comments I am glad I don’t. I cant differentiate unionists from nationalists which should be a bigger alarm bell than an administration entry. I dont think i have ever come across a form that lists Scottish as an option so rarely scroll down further than B  . 

Scotland isn't an option on drop downs with Microsoft at least, but you do sometimes see it on forms which have multiple options to choose from.  HMRC options never include Scottish for nationality, so no idea how Salmond managed that - is it possible it's been faked?

[aaid]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I never read Wings for no other reason than time restrictions .Looking at those comments I am glad I don’t. I cant differentiate unionists from nationalists which should be a bigger alarm bell than an administration entry. I dont think i have ever come across a form that lists Scottish as an option so rarely scroll down further than B  . 

Well Wings no longer supports Scottish independence so that shouldn't be a surprise.   It just a bunch of swivel-eyed loons who he can con money out of.

[Ally Bongo]

24 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Scotland isn't an option on drop downs with Microsoft at least, but you do sometimes see it on forms which have multiple options to choose from.  HMRC options never include Scottish for nationality, so no idea how Salmond managed that - is it possible it's been faked?

It's Companies House - Not HMRC

And sadly it is not faked

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

It's Companies House - Not HMRC

And sadly it is not faked

I seriously doubt that Nicola Sturgeon - or in fact Alex Salmond for that matter - filled in the company registrations themselves rather it was done by their accountant or lawyer.