Indyref 2 (2)

[aaid]

1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

Should start a thread on how many SNP MPs are not standing in the next election - so far;

Ian Blackford

Stewart Hosie

Angela Crawley

Mhairi Black

Douglas Chapman

Peter Grant

Fucking shocking

Come the next election those people will have been MPs for 9 years, if they stand again and win then that would be another 5 years on top.  I suspect a good number of them never really expected to win in 2015 when they put their names on the ballot paper.

Anyway, I thought you were one of those who thought Westminster was full of troughers and needed clearing out.

[hampden_loon2878]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

That's a complete lie, stop trying to gaslight people.   You're the biggest shit stirrer on here.

NUSNP trigger word,, gas lighting hahha

[hampden_loon2878]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

Come the next election those people will have been MPs for 9 years, if they stand again and win then that would be another 5 years on top.  I suspect a good number of them never really expected to win in 2015 when they put their names on the ballot paper.

Anyway, I thought you were one of those who thought Westminster was full of troughers and needed clearing out.

we should make a list of "LOONS predictions" i will start with one of the more recent ones i called about 18 months ago,,, labour are the biggest threat to the snp in scotland,, that was when we were predicting to win 54 seats at westminster

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

NUSNP trigger word,, gas lighting hahha

You know what's funny here - I'm nearing my sixties, you're - what - in your thirties and yet you are the one with the geriatric mindset and attitudes to match.

[hampden_loon2878]

time for the snp to go back to basics,, try get alba on side, fuck the greens off and get back to traditional snp values,, makes perfect sense

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

we should make a list of "LOONS predictions" i will start with one of the more recent ones i called about 18 months ago,,, labour are the biggest threat to the snp in scotland,, that was when we were predicting to win 54 seats at westminster

A threat in the context of being the second placed party.  A bit like how Ruth Davidson "won" the 2016 election.

[hampden_loon2878]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

You know what's funny here - I'm nearing my sixties, you're - what - in your thirties and yet you are the one with the geriatric mindset and attitudes to match.

Geriatric to you maybe, common sense to the rest

[hampden_loon2878]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

A threat in the context of being the second placed party.  A bit like how Ruth Davidson "won" the 2016 election.

no one predicted she would be a major threat, a threat to labour as the second party maybe

 

[scotlad]

On 6/30/2023 at 4:47 PM, PapofGlencoe said:

looks like it's the SNP's HQ that needs to learn how to count if it's running at a loss with bugger all campaigning being done and 70k members fees coming in (at the last count...).

Thank GOODNESS we had a chief exec on 100k a year keeping things running professionally.

 

My worry now is the SNP actually do commit, way too late, to a defacto vote in a blind panic to save a few seats.  Without the financial backing, goodwill of a grassroots campaign, crap leader and ridiculed by even sympathetic people, they'd remove credibility from the one remaining tool our citizens have.  

I'm still optimistic we'll see independence or our children will but I don't see it through the SNP anymore.  And Alba are not the answer either.  Needs a clean sweep.

honestly i think our best bet is Labour getting in and crowing about Unionism and getting on most Scots wick... releasing a second wind under a new SNP/Indpendence party.

 

On 6/30/2023 at 8:57 PM, Dave78 said:

Unionists have had control of Scotland for the last 50 years, but that statement falls down a bit since devolution, as it's not strictly true since 2007.

If Labour are in control of Holyrood, we can likely expect what we got under Jack McConnell.... i.e. a timid 'assembly' that was afraid to say No to their London tory-lite masters, and even sent back billions to the UK treasury.

I don't think Scots will stand for that for long.

The SNP will survive the current crisis (and challenge from Salmond) and almost certainly win power again.

I'm still unsure if a period where the nationalists are out of power is what is required, but maybe a "humiliation" is what's required in order to actually achieve independence.

I think you both make reasonable points.  Normally, for a party in the SNP's position, a spell on the sidelines to "reboot" could be a healthy thing, and if they were the ruling party of a properly independent country sitting in a properly sovereign parliament that could be a legitimate way forward. 

The trouble is, the SNP, because of what it represents, isn't a normal party. They are currently the party of government in an institution "lent" to Scotland by the British state. Their dominance of Scottish politics for most of the past 15 years or so has been a headache for the political establishment of the UK and once they have been removed from power, my fear is things will be put in place to make it harder for them or any other party with similar aims to return.

On one level it might be funny watching the genuinely thick Anas Sarwar trying to run a government but the inevitable failures that would ensue would receive barely a fraction of the negative media coverage that the current administration has to tolerate, because, of course, he would be representing the "right" team.

In respect of the next HR election, slightly less than three years away though it is, at this stage it looks like the SNP will shed seats but still emerge as the largest party, however they will be diminished to a point where the pro-independence majority has gone. In some respect that's a good result if you're a Labour or Tory unionist: the prospect of independence has been kicked even further down the road and you won't actually have to do anything difficult, like form a government.  Job done.    

1 hour ago, Alibi said:

Can't work out just how the SNP have got themselves into such a mess - almost as if they have tried to sabotage indy deliberately with a load of really stupid ill-conceived policies.  Has the party been infiltrated at a high level?  This type of car crash doesn't happen by accident.  Radical change is needed urgently, starting with getting rid of the utterly woeful Humza Yousaf and his vague and ever-changing strategy to get indy.  He really looks like a dead man walking every time he opens his mouth, and it's made worse that so many folk are pretending that they think he's great.  A blind man can see he's drowning.

Yousaf is out of his depth, as most of us who were against his appointment predicted he would be, but it is interesting how little criticism he's received publicly.  I know it's still early days but the change in the SNP's fortunes since even the turn of the year is alarming. 

Yousaf will be left alone for as long as his party is going in the direction its opponents want it to go.

[Squirrelhumper]

38 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Should start a thread on how many SNP MPs are not standing in the next election - so far;

Ian Blackford

Stewart Hosie

Angela Crawley

Mhairi Black

Douglas Chapman

Peter Grant

Fucking shocking

Amazing how much the prospect of losing your seat makes you want to stand down eh?

[Ally Bongo]

39 minutes ago, aaid said:

Come the next election those people will have been MPs for 9 years, if they stand again and win then that would be another 5 years on top.  I suspect a good number of them never really expected to win in 2015 when they put their names on the ballot paper.

Anyway, I thought you were one of those who thought Westminster was full of troughers and needed clearing out.

Silly me for hoping elected SNP MPs were going down there to do everything they could to advance Independence rather than join in with the English Establishment

Unless of course you are making excuses for people who really didn't believe in Independence from the start ?

[Och Aye]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I am surprised she lasted this long. Regardless of how people feel about her , good or bad, I always felt Westminster was too archaic for her. 

Some of the comments from the 'staunch' types on the news feeds comments section have been disgusting. 

[phart]

I like Mhairi Black. Least she is not trying to be career politician which is something i dont like.

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, phart said:

I like Mhairi Black. Least she is not trying to be career politician which is something i dont like.

The poison from Wings and his followers on why she is standing down is something to behold 

[Malcolm]

5 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

you and you likes will be remembered for pulling the SNP down, so arrogant and obnoxious and full of self importance. Slowly but surley, everything i have warned about is now happening, not that it was hard to see coming, lets see you defend sturgeons SNP when we become a fringe party again

completely agree with you.  I think both you and I said last year that the GRR and DRS would be the end for the SNP.  That along with calamitous leadership decisions and the unforseen financial scandal might not end the SNP but will relegate their position significantly.

lurch to the left… lose the middle ground and the moderateS

 

[hampden_loon2878]

The biggest warning that the snp were losing their way and were being taken over by folk not with independence at the heart of their policies was when they came out against domestic oil and gas exploration and extraction, so here’s what could happen, labour get in next election and cancel all exploration throwing thousands onto the dole, this would have been an open goal for the snp and independence had sturgeon not been a fucking idiot. So going into the holyrood elections the tories Will campaign on the issue that labour and the snp fucked the scottish economy and northsea,, the tories will win the northeast, labour will do really well in the central belt and the snp will be fucked around the coastal areas after the HMPA’s,, add the n the GRR, cancellation of the A9 upgrade, ferries and bottle return scheme then we have the blue print on how to destroy a party,, 

[Toepoke]

4 hours ago, phart said:

I like Mhairi Black. Least she is not trying to be career politician which is something i dont like.

Given the magnitude of the SNP win in 2015, I wouldn't be surprised if many of their MPs didn't plan on being needed in Westminster a decade later.

 

[vanderark14]

8 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

The biggest warning that the snp were losing their way and were being taken over by folk not with independence at the heart of their policies was when they came out against domestic oil and gas exploration and extraction, so here’s what could happen, labour get in next election and cancel all exploration throwing thousands onto the dole, this would have been an open goal for the snp and independence had sturgeon not been a fucking idiot. So going into the holyrood elections the tories Will campaign on the issue that labour and the snp fucked the scottish economy and northsea,, the tories will win the northeast, labour will do really well in the central belt and the snp will be fucked around the coastal areas after the HMPA’s,, add the n the GRR, cancellation of the A9 upgrade, ferries and bottle return scheme then we have the blue print on how to destroy a party,, 

It would be ironic if the tories used oil as their flagship to get elected in Scotland but I get your point. 

I though issues like GRR would blow over but the whole trans issue and green issues have created huge division. The SNP should've steered clear of it and focused on independence 

[vanderark14]

11 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

The poison from Wings and his followers on why she is standing down is something to behold 

What was the reason she gave for stepping down?

[Hertsscot]

54 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

What was the reason she gave for stepping down?

I think it was the toxic Westminster atmosphere, antiquated working practices and personal reasons. I think all these are perfectly valid. I know that it feeds the narrative of SNP MPs deserting a sinking ship but I do wonder how demanding and wearing the job of being an MP is, particularly for young women, and particularly if you're in opposition.

I'm sure for others like Rees-Mogg its all a bit of a laugh, extension of posh public school debating society but for those actually wanting to change Scotland/UK for the good it must be a pretty depressing place, particularly given the last decade.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Hertsscot

[phart]

13 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

The poison from Wings and his followers on why she is standing down is something to behold 

I've never read wings, way back when he was very popular on here getting linked all the time in the early 2010's I never read him.

I have seen some crazy stuff last 24 hours while briefly reading a reddit post, someone trying to say she is the same as Sunak etc.

Politics does funny things to people.

[Hertsscot]

5 minutes ago, phart said:

I've never read wings, way back when he was very popular on here getting linked all the time in the early 2010's I never read him.

I have seen some crazy stuff last 24 hours while briefly reading a reddit post, someone trying to say she is the same as Sunak etc.

Politics does funny things to people.

I quite liked Wings and used to comment occasionally but it became increasingly toxic. Not just the Bath guy himself but other posters having a go at other indy supporters because they disagreed about something. At his best though, he was doing something that SNP weren't doing in terms of rebuttal of media and Unionist propaganda.

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I think it was the toxic Westminster atmosphere, antiquated working practices and personal reasons. I think all these are perfectly valid. I know that it feeds the narrative of SNP MPs deserting a sinking ship but I do wonder how demanding and wearing the job of being an MP is, particularly for young women, and particularly if you're in opposition.

I'm sure for others like Rees-Mogg its all a bit of a laugh, extension of posh public school debating society but for those actually wanting to change Scotland/UK for the good it must be a pretty depressing place, particularly given the last decade.

As she said, by the time the next election comes she will have spent a third of her life in Westminster. Thats a third too much for anyone IMO. 
There will always be cynics out there looking to make more of something than there actually is. Sometimes the simple explanation is exactly that.  

[Alibi]

21 hours ago, aaid said:

And here are two of them below 

 

 

Away and fuck yourself, you pathetic cocksucker.  Are we supposed to just accept whatever shite comes along and say nothing?  I don't know what changed the ethos of the SNP, or the leadership at least, but something did, and I get the impression it happened round about 2017.  We had had the brexit vote and things looked good for indy at first, and then Nicola Sturgeon absolutely Hibsed it. At first it was the ludicrous electoral campaign to stop brexit when she should have been pushing the line that the only effective way to stop brexit for Scotland was independence; then she gradually shut off all options to achieve indy.  She got a boost from her generally reasonably decent handling of Covid, but since then it's been all downhill. Her capture by the zealots of genderwoo, her apparent fear of actually having the best people for the job in ministerial posts in case they posed a threat to her, even things like that bowing and scraping to Prince Charles - she became someone who didn't look like a leader of an independence movement.  I don't know what happened, but in 2017, something changed.  I've been SNP since Winnie Ewing won Hamilton, but I hardly recognise what the party has become in recent years.  I sent along to a branch meeting a few months ago, and the hostility from many when I tried to have a reasonable discussion about indy matters was astonishing.  I couldn't believe how many of them seem to regard Alex Salmond as being evil incarnate.  how short are there memories.  and then we have subservient wankers like you popping up every time anyone posts anything that is not absolutely in line with the current spineless leadership's perverted agenda.  I genuinely can't fathom how we got there, and my conclusion (seemingly shared by many others) is that it's been done deliberately; by whom I really don't know but it's a fair bet that the British state is somewhere in the shadows orchestrating the whole thing.  The SNP haven't even issued a murmur about the ridiculous supreme court decision and the possibility that it could be appealed or overturned or at least challenged in some way. Where are the leaders that we need?  Yousaf sure as fuck doesn't fit that bill (but of course you, Aaid, support everything he does.  Who's paying you?

Rant over.  time for lunch.

[Alibi]

3 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I quite liked Wings and used to comment occasionally but it became increasingly toxic. Not just the Bath guy himself but other posters having a go at other indy supporters because they disagreed about something. At his best though, he was doing something that SNP weren't doing in terms of rebuttal of media and Unionist propaganda.

Wings only became toxic to some because he was publishing things that people didn't want to hear.  Thing is, he's been proved correct on most things.  I think his comments section has attracted a lot of folk who are shall we say not actually indy supporters.  He's a decent journalist although he can be a bit abrasive.  Far rather read his stuff than the wall to wall shite you get in the Herald now.  It's a lot higher on the scale of toxicity, especially the comments which are now restricted to those who have a subscription to the unionist rag.