Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

5 hours ago, Orraloon said:

If you had been around at the time, would you have been in favour of the Thatcher government removing the 3 mile limit?

No, the three mile trawling limit should never have been removed. Static gear was always allowed

 

[Orraloon]

10 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

No, the three mile trawling limit should never have been removed. Static gear was always allowed

 

Would you be in favour of reintroducing it? Just for trawling and other destructive forms of fishing. I was speaking to a couple of marine biologists last week and they were both adamant that allowing trawling in inshore waters was the biggest mistake we ever made. They said pollution is a problem but minor by comparison. 

[hampden_loon2878]

6 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Would you be in favour of reintroducing it? Just for trawling and other destructive forms of fishing. I was speaking to a couple of marine biologists last week and they were both adamant that allowing trawling in inshore waters was the biggest mistake we ever made. They said pollution is a problem but minor by comparison. 

They tried a few year back and there was uproar, but personally I would reintroduce it however when we joined EU and most of our fishing rights sold away, this was introduced so folk that had lost fishing quota or right to fish had something to fall back on, so if a ban was to be put in place for inshore trawling, we would need to compensate these fishers with something. It’s the clam dredging that needs banned full stop 

[hampden_loon2878]

RIP Winnie Ewing,, a true Scottish patriot that furthered the cause for scottish independence 

[AlfieMoon]

Economy is absolutely fucked. SNP stuck on the sidelines though. 

[Ally Bongo]

4 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

Economy is absolutely fucked. SNP stuck on the sidelines though. 

Higher interest rates are intended to lower inflation, by giving mortgage-holders less to spend

Seriously - at what point do people take to the streets and start hanging politicians and bankers on lamp posts ?

[AlfieMoon]

2 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Higher interest rates are intended to lower inflation, by giving mortgage-holders less to spend

Seriously - at what point do people take to the streets and start hanging politicians and bankers on lamp posts ?

It’s the latest justification that does it for me. 
 

They’re saying that borrowing costs have increased specifically for the UK and not US/EU. Markets are losing confidence because of our government.
 

Meanwhile, it’s all of us that suffer, while the Tories allowed robbery during Covid and now allowing companies to cream off massive profits and doing fuck all.    

[scotlad]

34 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

RIP Winnie Ewing,, a true Scottish patriot that furthered the cause for scottish independence 

The end of an era, indeed.  94 is a good innings but it's a great shame she didn't live to see her country independent once again.

[SamP]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

The end of an era, indeed.  94 is a good innings but it's a great shame she didn't live to see her country independent once again.

Unless the independence parties unite here we won't see it either.

[Ally Bongo]

Scottish government scraps marine conservation plan

[Orraloon]

9 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Scottish government scraps marine conservation plan

Which is exactly how consultations should be able to work. Hopefully this change in policy will encourage more people to get involved in future consultations, now that they can see that they can change government policy, if they go about it the right way. 

I would say this is a victory for the sort of people who make the effort to get involved in issues that really matter to them. We still need to do more to protect our inshore waters though. This plan clearly wasn't the right way to go about it. 

[TDYER63]

 

English water companies on brink of collapse . The only country in the world to have fully privatised their water. Of course the headlines all talk about ‘ Uk water ‘ when in fact Scotland did not privatise its water. Wonder how many headlines we will see about that. A big fact zero is my guess. 
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/28/mounting-debts-and-public-anger-could-finally-sink-uk-water-companies

What we done right 

https://www.believeinscotland.org/scottish-water-a-victory-for-the-scottish-people-v-the-uk-government

 

 

 

[Freeedom]

Can't wait for indyref2 in October, just a few months left of the campaign. 

Wasn't that the promise?

[hampden_loon2878]

19 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Which is exactly how consultations should be able to work. Hopefully this change in policy will encourage more people to get involved in future consultations, now that they can see that they can change government policy, if they go about it the right way. 

I would say this is a victory for the sort of people who make the effort to get involved in issues that really matter to them. We still need to do more to protect our inshore waters though. This plan clearly wasn't the right way to go about it. 

had it not been for the likes of forbes, ewing, richard lochead, jim failie they would have pushed through this legislation, they simply did not have the numbers and a huge revolt would have split the party,, don't for one second believe this was due to consultation 

[aaid]

2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

had it not been for the likes of forbes, ewing, richard lochead, jim failie they would have pushed through this legislation, they simply did not have the numbers and a huge revolt would have split the party,, don't for one second believe this was due to consultation 

Come on, it’s clearly due to them being worried about Alex Salmond. 

[hampden_loon2878]

36 minutes ago, aaid said:

Come on, it’s clearly due to them being worried about Alex Salmond. 

or losing their seats

 

[aaid]

15 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

or losing their seats

 

You need to learn how to count.  

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

You need to learn how to count.  

dinna you worry about me, am doing fine

[PapofGlencoe]

looks like it's the SNP's HQ that needs to learn how to count if it's running at a loss with bugger all campaigning being done and 70k members fees coming in (at the last count...).

Thank GOODNESS we had a chief exec on 100k a year keeping things running professionally.

 

My worry now is the SNP actually do commit, way too late, to a defacto vote in a blind panic to save a few seats.  Without the financial backing, goodwill of a grassroots campaign, crap leader and ridiculed by even sympathetic people, they'd remove credibility from the one remaining tool our citizens have.  

I'm still optimistic we'll see independence or our children will but I don't see it through the SNP anymore.  And Alba are not the answer either.  Needs a clean sweep.

honestly i think our best bet is Labour getting in and crowing about Unionism and getting on most Scots wick... releasing a second wind under a new SNP/Indpendence party.

Edited June 30, 2023 by PapofGlencoe
putting in some optimism!

[aaid]

39 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

 

honestly i think our best bet is Labour getting in and crowing about Unionism and getting on most Scots wick... releasing a second wind under a new SNP/Indpendence party.

I’m really really struggling to work out what is the more ridiculous idea, this or your other one about having an independence only party that has a single policy.

Do you ever actually apply any critical thinking to these or do you just type them out as a stream of consciousness?

[Dave78]

3 hours ago, aaid said:

I’m really really struggling to work out what is the more ridiculous idea, this or your other one about having an independence only party that has a single policy.

 

I'm struggling to understand why you can't see Pap's point.

You'll know the old truism, that political oppositions don't win elections, government's lose them. If the SNP lose power, then i'm fairly sure they'll eventually come back like a tide to win again (which will actually deliver indyref2 and IMO independence).

[Ally Bongo]

1 minute ago, Dave78 said:

I'm struggling to understand why you can't see Pap's point.

You'll know the old truism, that political oppositions don't win elections, government's lose them. If the SNP lose power, then i'm fairly sure they'll eventually come back like a tide to win again (which will actually deliver indyref2 and IMO independence).

Unionists getting control of the Scottish Parliament again would not only be a disaster but a humiliation for Scotland

We are still sufferring from them having control the last 50 years

[Dave78]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Unionists getting control of the Scottish Parliament again would not only be a disaster but a humiliation for Scotland

We are still sufferring from them having control the last 50 years

Unionists have had control of Scotland for the last 50 years, but that statement falls down a bit since devolution, as it's not strictly true since 2007.

If Labour are in control of Holyrood, we can likely expect what we got under Jack McConnell.... i.e. a timid 'assembly' that was afraid to say No to their London tory-lite masters, and even sent back billions to the UK treasury.

I don't think Scots will stand for that for long.

The SNP will survive the current crisis (and challenge from Salmond) and almost certainly win power again.

I'm still unsure if a period where the nationalists are out of power is what is required, but maybe a "humiliation" is what's required in order to actually achieve independence.

[Ally Bongo]

13 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Unionists have had control of Scotland for the last 50 years, but that statement falls down a bit since devolution, as it's not strictly true since 2007.

If Labour are in control of Holyrood, we can likely expect what we got under Jack McConnell.... i.e. a timid 'assembly' that was afraid to say No to their London tory-lite masters, and even sent back billions to the UK treasury.

I don't think Scots will stand for that for long.

The SNP will survive the current crisis (and challenge from Salmond) and almost certainly win power again.

I'm still unsure if a period where the nationalists are out of power is what is required, but maybe a "humiliation" is what's required in order to actually achieve independence.

 

[PapofGlencoe]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

I’m really really struggling to work out what is the more ridiculous idea, this or your other one about having an independence only party that has a single policy.

Do you ever actually apply any critical thinking to these or do you just type them out as a stream of consciousness?

Oh my, happy Friday to you too 😄  Ironically "stream of consciousness" is exactly how this last post from you comes across.  Quite different from your usual 17 paragraphs of sage verse which blows whichever way the SNP drone farts this month.

It's not an idea, it's a hopeful prediction.  If you'd taken your own advice you'd see that. 

Unlike you until now keep this on topic, not personal.  But if you want to go that way, you can really see your posts going downhill like the SNP's political capital; at no point have I said there's an easy way out, at no point have I said Alba are the answer.   I call it as I see it.  If we do get independence, I do believe it will come from a less partisan approach.  I believe it will come from de-coupling the case to some extent from one political party into a more civic case.  I believe this may bring about consistent polling for independence in a way a partisan approach will not do.  And I think Westminster, now needlessly given unambiguous legal power, will dispute Scotland's choice to the very end via the traditional pro-independence political parties.  I think a general election of one party on this cause under those circumstances will be the way, yes.  If it ever happens which is admittedly unlikely.  I think the SNP have burnt too many bridges with the Scottish public to get the required levels of unambiguous support.  I may be wrong but I have thought about it, thanks.