Indyref 2 (2)

[Malcolm]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

This is why we must have independence from these w@nkers:-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/04/snp-tearing-apart-delicious-watch/

its hardly surprising.  Right wing, unionist press of course they are going to be happy watching this.  The SNP have only themselves to blame by allowing far left wing factions push ideological policies to significantly infiltrate the party. The centerists have had enough.  Reminds me a bit of the mid 80s struggles of the Labour Party.

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

its hardly surprising.  Right wing, unionist press of course they are going to be happy watching this.  The SNP have only themselves to blame by allowing far left wing factions push ideological policies to significantly infiltrate the party. The centerists have had enough.  Reminds me a bit of the mid 80s struggles of the Labour Party.

You are completely missing the point. Tell unionists that the media is ultra pro-union and they scoff. This juat proves how ultra pro-union and unashamedly biased they are. Hence never believe unionist media.

It really is just like the old Nazi propoganda machine feeding pro-Nazi bile that the German population bought or the Russian media today. The unionist media are just as biased towards anyone that dares stand up to their precious bent union.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[Malcolm]

21 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You are completely missing the point. Tell unionists that the media is ultra pro-union and they scoff. This juat proves how ultra pro-union and unashamedly biased they are. Hence never believe unionist media.

It really is just like the old Nazi propoganda machine feeding pro-Nazi bile that the German population bought or the Russian media today. The unionist media are just as biased towards anyone that dares stand up to their precious bent union.

The National is a pro independence publication.  Newspapers take political stances.  This has gone on since the beginning of time.

[Ally Bongo]

The National is owned by Newsquest of London

The National has just employed Ellie Gomersall to write columns

Scotland needs it's own impartial media - it doesn't have it

 

[Caledonian Craig]

36 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

The National is a pro independence publication.  Newspapers take political stances.  This has gone on since the beginning of time.

Even The National does not use terminology such as 'delicious' when discussing party issues. Unionist media ate akin to the Stazi.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[Malcolm]

8 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Even The National does not use terminology such as 'delicious' when discussing party issues. Unionist media ate akin to the Stazi.

none of the broader Uk publications are pro independence.  Why would they be?  And certainly some of the right wing press would love to see the snp implode, they are simply giving that view.  The snp have shifted drastically to the left under sturgeon, and this has fuelled this even further.

if the snp want independence they need to shift to the centre.  If they don’t, ie if humzah wins then I hope they do implode, with party spitting in two.  On one’s side the sensible, moderates that pursue centerist policies that take the broader public with them, and on the other the lunatic fringe that can join up with the greens and talk about GRR and DRS.

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

none of the broader Uk publications are pro independence.  Why would they be?  And certainly some of the right wing press would love to see the snp implode, they are simply giving that view.  The snp have shifted drastically to the left under sturgeon, and this has fuelled this even further.

if the snp want independence they need to shift to the centre.  If they don’t, ie if humzah wins then I hope they do implode, with party spitting in two.  On one’s side the sensible, moderates that pursue centerist policies that take the broader public with them, and on the other the lunatic fringe that can join up with the greens and talk about GRR and DRS.

Moving to centre things will get even worse from these rags as it totally destroys their ammunition,  they then need to rely purely  on hate for hate’s sake. The Telegraph should be better than these Daily Mail headlines, the fact that they all give so much time to the SNP is telling. The Mail in particular has a truly unhealthy obsession with them. 

[aaid]

30 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Moving to centre things will get even worse from these rags as it totally destroys their ammunition,  they then need to rely purely  on hate for hate’s sake. The Telegraph should be better than these Daily Mail headlines, the fact that they all give so much time to the SNP is telling. The Mail in particular has a truly unhealthy obsession with them. 

I don’t know why people get so worked up about titles like the Mail and Express.  Sure they’re absolutely appalling but their readership are people who would never vote for independence in a million years.  They’re best ignored to keep the blood pressure down. 

I wonder what the circulation of the Express is in Scotland anyway, less than 10000?

[TDYER63]

22 minutes ago, aaid said:

I don’t know why people get so worked up about titles like the Mail and Express.  Sure they’re absolutely appalling but their readership are people who would never vote for independence in a million years.  They’re best ignored to keep the blood pressure down. 

I wonder what the circulation of the Express is in Scotland anyway, less than 10000?

It would be a lot easier for me to ignore the Mail if my bloody husband didn’t read it. And he voted for independence ! He honestly must be unique. It drives me mad having it lying about the house every day, there is so much utter bullshit in it. Any paper that gives print space to Katie Hopkins has to be gutter press. I have tried getting him to go online as it really does anger me, and its much cheaper that way, but he prefers an actual paper. 
 

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

I wonder what the circulation of the Express is in Scotland anyway, less than 10000?

This is from 2020 but suggests the Scottish Daily Express sells about 30,000 copies (three times the sales of the National).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51628954

 

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

This is from 2020 but suggests the Scottish Daily Express sells about 30,000 copies (three times the sales of the National).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51628954

 

I think the National has a lot more online subscriptions though. 

[Clyde1998]

12 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

This is from 2020 but suggests the Scottish Daily Express sells about 30,000 copies (three times the sales of the National).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51628954

A sizable number of newspaper sales these days are to institutions: libraries, schools, universities, offices, etc. The number of individuals purchasing the Daily Express in no doubt lower than that.

Of the people I know who regularly purchase newspapers, they're all of retirement age. Even people I know in their 50s don't regularly buy newspapers. I don't know if that's anyone else's experience, but would tally with the rapid decline of physical newspaper sales.

As aaid says, online subscriptions are important to consider; some newspapers may have more online subscribers than physical sales these days.

I don't know whether the Daily Express has a Scottish edition website (I highly doubt it), so a lot of their online content will be focused on English sensibilities as that will drive clicks and therefore ad revenue.

[aaid]

54 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

A sizable number of newspaper sales these days are to institutions: libraries, schools, universities, offices, etc. The number of individuals purchasing the Daily Express in no doubt lower than that.

Of the people I know who regularly purchase newspapers, they're all of retirement age. Even people I know in their 50s don't regularly buy newspapers. I don't know if that's anyone else's experience, but would tally with the rapid decline of physical newspaper sales.

As aaid says, online subscriptions are important to consider; some newspapers may have more online subscribers than physical sales these days.

I don't know whether the Daily Express has a Scottish edition website (I highly doubt it), so a lot of their online content will be focused on English sensibilities as that will drive clicks and therefore ad revenue.

There is a Scottish Daily Express website, however their splash right now seems to be that Patrick Harvie is a criminal record.  Mind you given that relates to a demo at Faslane, was widely reported at the time - as he was an MSP - and I think  he’s mentioned it on a few occasions, I doubt he’s concerned - or importantly - neither are any of his base. 

[PapofGlencoe]

6 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

It would be a lot easier for me to ignore the Mail if my bloody husband didn’t read it. And he voted for independence ! He honestly must be unique. It drives me mad having it lying about the house every day, there is so much utter bullshit in it. Any paper that gives print space to Katie Hopkins has to be gutter press. I have tried getting him to go online as it really does anger me, and its much cheaper that way, but he prefers an actual paper. 
 

Yes, I know plenty people that read the Mail that may at one stage have been open to Independence too.  It's not black and white.  Not everyone sees things overtly politically all the time.

I prefer an actual paper as well.  Sunday Times I get once a week.  It's definitely centre right which is not me but you get different perspectives and that's no bad thing.  Their exclusives are quite good too.  I think part of our problem is the ad infinitum of news now.  and choice.  with a paper you don't know what's on the next page.  and the article has a limit.  

The problem with the corporate media in Scotland is that it's so one sided and they hunt in packs.  it doesn't go after the union the way it goes after independence.  The National is a joke of a paper and I would be embarrassed to be seen reading it.  It' been forever thus but we had a relatively united party which didn't hunt ourselves with quite the same venom.

[TDYER63]

22 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Yes, I know plenty people that read the Mail that may at one stage have been open to Independence too.  It's not black and white.  Not everyone sees things overtly politically all the time.

I prefer an actual paper as well.  Sunday Times I get once a week.  It's definitely centre right which is not me but you get different perspectives and that's no bad thing.  Their exclusives are quite good too.  I think part of our problem is the ad infinitum of news now.  and choice.  with a paper you don't know what's on the next page.  and the article has a limit.  

The problem with the corporate media in Scotland is that it's so one sided and they hunt in packs.  it doesn't go after the union the way it goes after independence.  The National is a joke of a paper and I would be embarrassed to be seen reading it.  It' been forever thus but we had a relatively united party which didn't hunt ourselves with quite the same venom.

I think you are right in suggesting not all readers are overtly political, he hates politics in general which I find quite amusing for someone who reads the Mail. Well, I find it amusing when I am not wanting to rip his arms out their sockets to stop him reading it 😁

He can’t possibly know how annoyed I get as he doesn’t have the same passion. 
I would not bother at all if he read The Times as they do not publish anti independence bullshit from cover to cover every single  day, and criticism of the SG is warranted at times. I think he thinks I am overly protective of them but I feel I need to overcompensate to compete with the Mail. 
That’s a good point about hard copy newspapers having article limits , god knows what wormhole he would go down online 🙄😊

Yes, the National is almost as bad at the other end of the spectrum but they don’t pretend to be something they aren’t, unlike the papers that try to portray themselves as serious unbiased journalism. 

[Hertsscot]

27 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I think you are right in suggesting not all readers are overtly political, he hates politics in general which I find quite amusing for someone who reads the Mail. Well, I find it amusing when I am not wanting to rip his arms out their sockets to stop him reading it 😁

He can’t possibly know how annoyed I get as he doesn’t have the same passion. 
I would not bother at all if he read The Times as they do not publish anti independence bullshit from cover to cover every single  day, and criticism of the SG is warranted at times. I think he thinks I am overly protective of them but I feel I need to overcompensate to compete with the Mail. 
That’s a good point about hard copy newspapers having article limits , god knows what wormhole he would go down online 🙄😊

Yes, the National is almost as bad at the other end of the spectrum but they don’t pretend to be something they aren’t, unlike the papers that try to portray themselves as serious unbiased journalism. 

It's also the disproportionate effect of these propaganda papers and that's all some of them are. It's the headline the customer sees in the supermarket even when they're not going to buy a paper. It's like a free billboard to criticize independence. Stories also get recycled on websites or TV under 'What the papers say'. I think that's a reason why they're still important to their Unionist owners.

[Alibi]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:01 PM, Malcolm said:

The National is a pro independence publication.  Newspapers take political stances.  This has gone on since the beginning of time.

The National is a sort of fake pro-indy newspaper, owned as you say by unionists.  There are some good contributors to the Sunday edition - David Pratt, Stuart Cosgrove and a couple of others, but it's more like a pro-indy paper run by unionists as a feeble attempt to capture the indy pound.  I bought a copy a couple of Sundays ago and it cost £2.40, which is ridiculous as it's pretty thin and no longer includes the colour supplement that it used to share with the Sunday Herald.

A paper for those who will vote Yousaf.

[Malcolm]

the DRS is a shambles.  Apparently some return machines are not working and we need to get maintenance in……..    from Germany.  FFS…. From Germany.

lorna Slater now washing her hands of the fees charged by the return handlers, saying that is a matter for circularity Scotland and not her.  She is an utter clown.  

id rather have no parliament than this shambles. Save us from the greens ffs.

[vanderark14]

Another day another dose of hyperbolic pish from malcolm

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

Another day another dose of hyperbolic pish from malcolm

All true

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

the DRS is a shambles.  Apparently some return machines are not working and we need to get maintenance in……..    from Germany.  FFS…. From Germany.

lorna Slater now washing her hands of the fees charged by the return handlers, saying that is a matter for circularity Scotland and not her.  She is an utter clown.  

id rather have no parliament than this shambles. Save us from the greens ffs.

There are not using them until August. I'm surprised they are even wired up yet. 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

the DRS is a shambles.  Apparently some return machines are not working and we need to get maintenance in……..    from Germany.  FFS…. From Germany.

lorna Slater now washing her hands of the fees charged by the return handlers, saying that is a matter for circularity Scotland and not her.  She is an utter clown.  

id rather have no parliament than this shambles. Save us from the greens ffs.

It is bizarre. You post here with such extremism over trivial matters calling Scottish Parliament shambles. But not once have I heard you have a word of criticism for Westminster who have overseen such calamities over the last few years - just too many and too vast to mention. Incredible. It just tells me that you are a true blue unionist on the wind-up. A but like that Star Trek episode 'Wolf in the Fold'.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[PapofGlencoe]

Watched the first 10 mins of the stv debate there.

Yousaf saying...."the UK government won't sit down with us simply because we win an election"

Regardless of how this goes, what a numpty to say that out loud.  It's literally the only way it can be done.

"Once in a generation" stuff

Nobody is expecting the UK to necessarily sit down with us but you don't say that out loud as your original position.  You have to build the majority first and you won't build it without a plan.  Can't believe we've got our own side making the UK govt's arguments for them.

Nothing against the guy personally but where's the nous there.

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Watched the first 10 mins of the stv debate there.

Yousaf saying...."the UK government won't sit down with us simply because we win an election"

Regardless of how this goes, what a numpty to say that out loud.  It's literally the only way it can be done.

"Once in a generation" stuff

Nobody is expecting the UK to necessarily sit down with us but you don't say that out loud as your original position.  You have to build the majority first and you won't build it without a plan.  Can't believe we've got our own side making the UK govt's arguments for them.

Nothing against the guy personally but where's the nous there.

Well clearly they haven’t done so, so far.  We had our one chance and we lost, they won’t be so stupid again.   You maybe should be focussing on the “just because” part of that statement.  It will be the margin of victory added to the length of time that support has been evident before that election which will do it.  

[PapofGlencoe]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

We had our one chance and we lost

Well at least the New SNP slogan is clear.

The "just because" part of the argument is a majority of Scots voting for it.  That's it.  Something people in the SNP should be defending.

I don't even particularly want a vote anytime soon but if anyone is to defend the right of determination, it should be the SNP.  You don't gain anything by agreeing to start negotiating on your opponent's favoured starting point.

I'm not as far away from your view as you may think.  It's how we get there and throwing the towel in on majority support is really not the place to start.