Ukraine

[thplinth]

49 minutes ago, Alibi said:

The evidence tends to support your theory, I have to say.  The thing that really annoyed me was the "Stop Brexit" election campaign - instead of pushing for independence, she wanted, or said she wanted, to stop a brexit that England had voted for.  Instead, she should have been seizing the opportunity to leverage indy using the brexit vote, but she didn't.  That and then the Salmond stitch up, which has only partially been covered up by widespread redaction of documents, set alarm bells ringing.  I think Sturgeon has been compromised in some way, and as for her husband, I just instinctively distrust him.  my gut feeling is that the root of all this is the British state doing underhand things to stop indy, and what better way to do that than to have a puppet compromised leader in place?  Eventually something will come out and maybe that will re-motivate the indy movement, but I have to say that Alba isn't likely to be the beneficiary as Salmond is now, sadly in my opinion, unelectable.

Reverting to Ukraine, strange how this war (or not a war if you're name is Putin) is being used to try to make a case that Scotland can't be independent.  Just like every world event.  The reason we can't be independent is probably that the rUK and USA want to keep us under their thumb - maybe that should be the message used to win support for indy.

I increasingly think this is very much the case. There was a significant change post 2014 and sadly I think the Old SNP signed its own death warrant the day Salmond handed over the leadership. What was done to Salmond was really over the top, 'out of character' even for 'them'. So I personally wonder if that was the point our US friends got much more involved as they have a much heavier touch and are much more out of tune with our culture. The whole thing seemed very extreme. As that cop & whistleblower said it was all so over-the-top / unnecessary, a witch hunt. It is like the exact same people running the US Democrat party (the Republicans are not much different in this regard) are now running the SNP. 

An independent Scotland would be much more inclined to be left-leaning, anti-war, anti-nuclear weapons, pro-Palestine etc etc... than anything down South. Not a pleasing prospect for 'them' to deal with versus London... who merely ask how deeply they want rimmed that day. 😀 Salmond especially would have been a real thorn in their side if he had com back. Plus if Nicky is an 'asset' he was a huge threat to her position as well. They had to remove that risk. So that is what they did.

I can't imagine living just one night in Salmond's mind during his darkest hours when he must have realised what he was up against. He must have had some terrible nights lying awake once he realized the effort being put in to stitching him up. It would be terrifying for any of us seeing that 'monster' rear up in front of you (the police, the crown office, the media and most shockingly of all the SNP leadership and UK civil service all working together in it). And he endured many many months of it. He'll never come back after experiencing all of that is my guess and I would not blame him one little bit, (fuck that for a game of soldiers as they say). Plus they tarnished him in the public's mind, that was the main goal and it worked.

Even now the truth of it can't come out due the lifetime anonymity given to people who lied (in the jury's judgement) in court. It was a very carefully crafted plan to keep themselves hidden from the general public's eye and awareness. 

(We should move this to the indyref thread or something.)

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, Alibi said:

 but I have to say that Alba isn't likely to be the beneficiary as Salmond is now, sadly in my opinion, unelectable.

 

Everything about Alba is unelectable. 

Complete irrelevance. 

[Alibi]

21 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Everything about Alba is unelectable. 

Complete irrelevance. 

I see they're polling at about 2% in the latest poll (I think it was maybe relating to the council elections).  That's never going to get them anywhere unless they manage to persuade enough people to give them a second vote in a Holyrood election.  As a long time (currently lapsed) SNP member, I don't subscribe to the "Alba bad" squabbling as they're on the same side.  I do however think that splitting the indy vote is going to harm the overall indy cause, but for me, Alba just want to do things a bit differently - they are not actually the enemy, although Nicola Sturgeon seems to attack them rather than the yoon parties.

The vehicle to take us to independence is the SNP.  However it needs purged at the top.  Currently it's not heading in the right direction.  If it can be got back on track, we will see the indy movement come back together, at least for long enough to get independence.  After that, we have a clean slate to write on.

[Alibi]

23 hours ago, aaid said:

What evidence is that then?

FFS, the wee autobot nipping at your ankles constantly.  I look at what is happening, I see an FM who to me looked untrustworthy when giving evidence at the enquiry, I see screeds of redacted stuff, and I come to the conclusion that something is being covered up.  I look at an innocent man being hounded for nothing of any consequence (the attempted rape charge in particular, although being very serious if it were true, was completely dismissed based on the evidence).  When I deduced who witness H was (from stuff that was posted online, probably in contempt of court) and her connections, a lot fell into place.  The whole business stinks and Sturgeon come out of it not exactly smelling of roses.  She seems to have an intense hatred of Salmond and I don't actually know why, given he created her political career for her.  Then i looked at the way Sturgeon has acted for most of the last 7 years, constantly failing to seize opportunities, failing to go on the attack on almost every issue, acting as a meek colonial administrator, always seeking a 4 nations approach when she should be emphasising differences rather than almost following Westminster.  Where are her calls to get rid of Trident? Why did she throw away the opportunity afforded by brexit to make it the main issue in the UK election but as a reason for indy rather than a futile, feeble "Stop Brexit" campaign?

The evidence is there.  You just choose to ignore it or whitewash over it.  Now, away and check with your bosses before you post one here again.  I always expected the British state to interfere in the indy movement.  I may be wrong, but i think they are and they have people in places of influence.  How do you stop an indy movement winning?  Launch a takeover bid and destroy it from within.

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Alibi said:

FFS, the wee autobot nipping at your ankles constantly.  I look at what is happening, I see an FM who to me looked untrustworthy when giving evidence at the enquiry, I see screeds of redacted stuff, and I come to the conclusion that something is being covered up.  I look at an innocent man being hounded for nothing of any consequence (the attempted rape charge in particular, although being very serious if it were true, was completely dismissed based on the evidence).  When I deduced who witness H was (from stuff that was posted online, probably in contempt of court) and her connections, a lot fell into place.  The whole business stinks and Sturgeon come out of it not exactly smelling of roses.  She seems to have an intense hatred of Salmond and I don't actually know why, given he created her political career for her.  Then i looked at the way Sturgeon has acted for most of the last 7 years, constantly failing to seize opportunities, failing to go on the attack on almost every issue, acting as a meek colonial administrator, always seeking a 4 nations approach when she should be emphasising differences rather than almost following Westminster.  Where are her calls to get rid of Trident? Why did she throw away the opportunity afforded by brexit to make it the main issue in the UK election but as a reason for indy rather than a futile, feeble "Stop Brexit" campaign?

The evidence is there.  You just choose to ignore it or whitewash over it.  Now, away and check with your bosses before you post one here again.  I always expected the British state to interfere in the indy movement.  I may be wrong, but i think they are and they have people in places of influence.  How do you stop an indy movement winning?  Launch a takeover bid and destroy it from within.

tl;dr

There’s no evidence, just supposition 

[Alibi]

Just now, aaid said:

tl;dr

There’s no evidence, just supposition 

That's often the case.  However when you add up all the little things, often limited due to massive redaction, you gain an impression. If the evidence gets concealed you maybe can't prove it.

I want the SNP to sweep the board, I want Sturgeon to be the leader we thought we were getting.  I wanted her at least to try.  But she doesn't.  She chickens out of the fight every time.  I want her to channel her inner Zelensky but she won't.  And I have to ask myself "why not".  She's not actually a leader.  She's just an administrator.  We need better.

[Ally Bongo]

5 hours ago, Alibi said:

That's often the case.  However when you add up all the little things, often limited due to massive redaction, you gain an impression. If the evidence gets concealed you maybe can't prove it.

I want the SNP to sweep the board, I want Sturgeon to be the leader we thought we were getting.  I wanted her at least to try.  But she doesn't.  She chickens out of the fight every time.  I want her to channel her inner Zelensky but she won't.  And I have to ask myself "why not".  She's not actually a leader.  She's just an administrator.  We need better.

Maybe she might be if more of the people were with her ........

 

70/30 makes you a Zelensky

 

50/50 doesnt

[Lamia]

3 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Maybe she might be if more of the people were with her ........

 

70/30 makes you a Zelensky

 

50/50 doesnt

Well done trying to get this back on topic

[thplinth]

The evidence is overwhelming. Look at the totality of it is the key. It is every step, without fail.

We have a lot of problems here and not just in Scotland but globally. Scotland is just one small 'front' for the folk pulling the strings. What we wanted as a sovereign nation through democratic means is an irrelevance to their goals.

[aaid]

24 minutes ago, thplinth said:

The evidence is overwhelming. Look at the totality of it is the key. It is every step, without fail.

We have a lot of problems here and not just in Scotland but globally. Scotland is just one small 'front' for the folk pulling the strings. What we wanted as a sovereign nation through democratic means is an irrelevance to their goals.

And who are these folk pulling the strings then, the CIA again?

[thplinth]

You have been calling me a Russian agent on here for years but now you have your panties in a twist at being identified as an American agent.

The funny thing is you probably are. Ironic. 

Everything you post is tight up their 'ass'. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by thplinth

[aaid]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

You have been calling me a Russian agent on here for years but now you have your panties in a twist at being identified as an American agent.

The funny thing is you probably are. Ironic. 

Everything you post is tight up their 'ass'. 

Unlike you, I’ve never lived and worked in the USA.  Why did you leave New York anyway, deported?  That would explain a lot.

[Lamia]

See these assessments of what Russia planned and how the operation is going against these plans. How on earth do we know if Putin only planned for it to last a few days. There also seems to be mass acceptance that they thought they would be welcomed with open arms at the same time as we are being told the troops didn’t even know they were going on a real operation.
We keep getting told what Putin planned and thinks when I fail to see how it is possible to know. 
Oh and how does anyone know how many Russian soldiers have been killed? 

[Ally Bongo]

14 hours ago, Lamia said:

We keep getting told what Putin planned and thinks when I fail to see how it is possible to know. 
 

There are almost certainly Western assets inside the Kremlin

It's why the intelligence has (up to now) been good

[Ally Bongo]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-purges-in-putins-shrinking-inner-circle

It looks like Putin is getting really unhappy with the operation, but it looks like he still believes that the original plan was fine but that there were some problems with some elements. And that is why his attack on the foreign-intelligence branch of the F.S.B. is not just about bad intelligence but also about something else.

This unit is also in charge of conducting political warfare operations in Ukraine, meaning cultivating networks of agents and supporters of political groups that might be pro-Kremlin and that would support the Russian invasion. But that never happened, and, as far as I know from my sources, one of the investigations is also about how they used funds allocated to political groups in Ukraine. Maybe now it looks like Putin has gotten angry with the lack of popular support in Ukraine for the Russian troops.

But it looks like this story is developing really fast, and now we have news that it’s not only about the use of funds but also that military counterintelligence is looking into the activities of this particular department of the F.S.B. And that could mean that, finally, people in Moscow started asking themselves why the U.S. intelligence was so accurate. Military counterintelligence is mostly about mole-hunting, identifying the sources of leaks. So it looks like now Putin is getting angry, not only with bad intelligence and the bad performance in Ukraine but also about the sourcing of the U.S. intelligence about the invasion, and why U.S. intelligence was so good before the invasion, and why the Americans knew so many things about what was coming.

[Lamia]

19 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

There are almost certainly Western assets inside the Kremlin

It's why the intelligence has (up to now) been good

Either that or we are also being fed propaganda. 

I think we are all being played.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Lamia

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, Lamia said:

Either that or we are also being fed propaganda. 

I think we are all being played.

There is always propaganda in any war

The Russian tactics prior and up to the invasion is down to intelligence - plain and simple

[Lamia]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

There is always propaganda in any war

The Russian tactics prior and up to the invasion is down to intelligence - plain and simple

Don't think there is anything plain and simple about it...........

[phart]

We might very well be getting played or more likely Ukraine is being used as a proxy. However as soon as you invade you're in the wrong.

It was wrong when we invaded countries it is wrong when other countries invade. Everyone has excuses why their invasion is a noble one.

It never is.

[Ally Bongo]

13 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Don't think there is anything plain and simple about it...........

You asked a specific question

We keep getting told what Putin planned and thinks when I fail to see how it is possible to know.

And i gave you the answer - intelligence from within the Kremlin

That is what is plain and simple - and only that

 

[chaff]

The video allegedly showing Russian POWs being mis-treated is pretty grim.

[phart]

20 minutes ago, chaff said:

The video allegedly showing Russian POWs being mis-treated is pretty grim.

Not seen it, been deliberately avoiding anything like that.

They've been parading folk about all over the place which is wrong.

mistreating prisoners is a war crime. Also becomes open season on ukraine POW as well.

However

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Edited March 27, 2022 by phart

[chaff]

Just now, phart said:

Not seen it, been deliberately avoiding anything like that.

They've been parading folk about all over the place which is wrong.

mistreating prisoners is a war crime.

However

"To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Can't argue with that but if you want to portray yourself as the victim it's probably best if your shite doesn't smell.

[thplinth]

33 minutes ago, chaff said:

Can't argue with that but if you want to portray yourself as the victim it's probably best if your shite doesn't smell.

 

[phart]

33 minutes ago, chaff said:

Can't argue with that but if you want to portray yourself as the victim it's probably best if your shite doesn't smell.

Who is "you" in this context the entirety of the population of Ukraine? We have to delineate who is doing what.

Iraqi's burnt occupation troops alive in some instances. Iraq was still a victim.

Everything blurs in these situations.

For me anyway, just my opinion.