ErsatzThistle Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 As it says... Thoughts on how far we have come in ten years. This was the squad announced by Craig Levein to play a friendly against Denmark at Hampden (which we won 2-1). A young Grant Hanley was there. Goalkeepers - Allan McGregor (Rangers), Matt Gilks (Blackpool), Iain Turner (Preston NE); Defenders- Phil Bardsley (Sunderland), Christophe Berra (Wolves), Gary Caldwell (Wigan), Stephen Crainey (Blackpool), Grant Hanley (Blackburn), Alan Hutton (Tottenham), Steven Whittaker (Rangers), Danny Wilson (Liverpool); Midfielders - Barry Bannan (Aston Villa), Scott Brown (Celtic), Kris Commons (Celtic), Graeme Dorrans (WBA), Craig Forrest (Celtic), James Morrison (WBA), Barry Robson (Middlesbrough), Robert Snodgrass (Leeds), Charlie Adam (Liverpool), Forwards - Kenny Miller (Cardiff), Steven Naismith (Rangers), David Goodwillie (Dundee United), Craig Mackail-Smith (Brighton), Kenny Miller (Cardiff), Steven Naismith (Rangers). Where have we improved, regressed and where are we still just the bloody same ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 I forgot about Iain Turner. Don't think he was ever capped though, was he? Well, right back looks better in the 2011 squad and I wish the current team had a Kenny Miller. Apart from that, left back looks a lot better now, central defence a bit better, midfield is better now and goalkeeper about even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, scotlad said: I forgot about Iain Turner. Don't think he was ever capped though, was he? Well, right back looks better in the 2011 squad and I wish the current team had a Kenny Miller. Apart from that, left back looks a lot better now, central defence a bit better, midfield is better now and goalkeeper about even. Nah, Turner was never capped. Gordon and Marshall must have been unavailable. I'm pretty sure that in the program Q&A for the 2006 game vs. France, David Weir chose Turner as his "one for the future" Darren Fletcher was injured (or ill ?) and couldn't make this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 33 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: As it says... Thoughts on how far we have come in ten years. This was the squad announced by Craig Levein to play a friendly against Denmark at Hampden (which we won 2-1). A young Grant Hanley was there. Goalkeepers - Allan McGregor (Rangers), Matt Gilks (Blackpool), Iain Turner (Preston NE); Defenders- Phil Bardsley (Sunderland), Christophe Berra (Wolves), Gary Caldwell (Wigan), Stephen Crainey (Blackpool), Grant Hanley (Blackburn), Alan Hutton (Tottenham), Steven Whittaker (Rangers), Danny Wilson (Liverpool); Midfielders - Barry Bannan (Aston Villa), Scott Brown (Celtic), Kris Commons (Celtic), Graeme Dorrans (WBA), Craig Forrest (Celtic), James Morrison (WBA), Barry Robson (Middlesbrough), Robert Snodgrass (Leeds), Charlie Adam (Liverpool), Forwards - Kenny Miller (Cardiff), Steven Naismith (Rangers), David Goodwillie (Dundee United), Craig Mackail-Smith (Brighton), Kenny Miller (Cardiff), Steven Naismith (Rangers). Where have we improved, regressed and where are we still just the bloody same ? Personally I'd only give McGregor, Hutton and one of Miller or Naismih a game, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesdad Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) Who was/is Craig Forrest? Don't think I've ever heard of him Is this a typo? Steven Naismith named twice I'm presuming it was meant to be Stephen Fletcher. Miller, Fletcher and Naismith have a lot more goals in them than Dykes,Adams and Nisbet. But generally we are stronger I think..... Hope. We have a much better team spirit. Which can help Edited July 3, 2021 by Archiesdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 Just now, Archiesdad said: Who was/is Craig Forrest? Don't think I've ever heard of him Is this a typo? Steven Naismith named twice in presuming it was meant to be Stephen Fletcher. Aye, typos. Serves me right for copying and pasting it from an old Scotzine article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Personally I'd only give McGregor, Hutton and one of Miller or Naismih a game, I'd agree with that. I think McGregor is still our best keeper. I do think Paterson may turn out to be even better than Hutton though. Wouldn't mind Scott Brown either. Overall I think we're marginally better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 McGregor, Naismith, Miller, Brown, Hutton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Absolutely chucking it doon so it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkm_vancouver Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 2011 P 10, W 6 - L 3 - D 1 inc wins against Denmark and Wales 2021 P 8, W 2 - L 3 - D 3 So yet another example of how we've under-performed recently with a much better team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 13 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said: Nah, Turner was never capped. Gordon and Marshall must have been unavailable. I'm pretty sure that in the program Q&A for the 2006 game vs. France, David Weir chose Turner as his "one for the future" Darren Fletcher was injured (or ill ?) and couldn't make this game. It was possibly the start of his issues with ulcerative colitis; I think his career as a player was in the balance at one point due to the condition and if memory serves he was out for nearly two seasons because of it. Thankfully though he returned and won over 90 caps, which is even more impressive considering how much football he missed. 13 hours ago, Archiesdad said: Who was/is Craig Forrest? Don't think I've ever heard of him Is this a typo? Steven Naismith named twice I'm presuming it was meant to be Stephen Fletcher. Miller, Fletcher and Naismith have a lot more goals in them than Dykes,Adams and Nisbet. But generally we are stronger I think..... Hope. We have a much better team spirit. Which can help There was a Canadian goalkeeper in the '90s called Craig Forrest. I think he played for West Ham (or possibly QPR). 12 hours ago, gkm_vancouver said: 2011 P 10, W 6 - L 3 - D 1 inc wins against Denmark and Wales 2021 P 8, W 2 - L 3 - D 3 So yet another example of how we've under-performed recently with a much better team Most of those 2011 results will have been friendlies though. Take the friendlies out of the equation and Craig Levein's record as Scotland manager is terrible. Also, shouldn't our record this year be: P8 W2 L2 D4 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Individual players might be better and worse but hard to say we’ve progressed in any meaningful way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 I would say our present squad is marginally better. We have better star players in Tierney, Robertson and McTominay. Mcgregor and Hutton would be certain starters from 2011 squad but there are a few others that could be considered as well if you were to make a combined team. There's alot of players who were of a similar standard in both squads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 34 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Individual players might be better and worse but hard to say we’ve progressed in any meaningful way. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesdad Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 50 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Individual players might be better and worse but hard to say we’ve progressed in any meaningful way. Well this group qualified for a major competition the 2011 squad didn't I would call that progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Archiesdad said: Well this group qualified for a major competition the 2011 squad didn't I would call that progress Or benefiting from the extra 8 teams and nations league qualification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Or benefiting from the extra 8 teams and nations league qualification Good spot, far too much has been made of this qualification tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 if I was picking a team from the two squads it would be about even. I would play McGregor hutton Hanley Tierney Robertson Gilmour Mctominay Brown Mcginn Naismith Miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, Malcolm said: if I was picking a team from the two squads it would be about even. I would play McGregor hutton Hanley Tierney Robertson Gilmour Mctominay Brown Mcginn Naismith Miller I think Che Adams is better than Naismith and I’m not sure Scott Brown gets in the combined team but that’s pretty accurate though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 McGreggor / Gordon back then (and even now) beat Marshall. Huttons better than anything we currently have at right back, Browns better than McGreggor so would make the defensive mid position. I would take Naismith over Dykes but Adams over Miller who imo is overly fondly remembered. Was a headless chicken of a player who had zero positional sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blantyre_Braveheart Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 McGregor, Gordon and Marshall (in 2011) are far superior to what we have in the goalkeeping position. RB and not just Hutton was also much better. Whittaker was a very technically gifted footballer who was quite underrated. Patterson has the potential to hit prime Hutton levels and is already much further ahead in his development than Hutton was at the same age. He still has a way to go but the early signs are very promising. I'd say we were also slightly better upfront with Miller and Naismith. Miller had great movement and absolutely insane workrate. Missed some chances but still scored quite a decent amount. Naismith was also a far superior player to Dykes while offering similar aerial presence and workrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said: McGregor, Gordon and Marshall (in 2011) are far superior to what we have in the goalkeeping position. RB and not just Hutton was also much better. Whittaker was a very technically gifted footballer who was quite underrated. Patterson has the potential to hit prime Hutton levels and is already much further ahead in his development than Hutton was at the same age. He still has a way to go but the early signs are very promising. I'd say we were also slightly better upfront with Miller and Naismith. Miller had great movement and absolutely insane workrate. Missed some chances but still scored quite a decent amount. Naismith was also a far superior player to Dykes while offering similar aerial presence and workrate. I think that's a good analysis, Naismith and Miller I both think were and are underrated and we don't have a match winner some one like McFadden who can produce a bit of magic. I do see some encouraging signs but its potential not yet realised. Upfront is a problem though Adams is surely an upgrade on McBurnie. Goalkeeper worries me, yes they go on longer but Marshall and Gordon are both well into their 30s and as pointed out may not be as good as they were ten years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blantyre_Braveheart Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Hertsscot said: I think that's a good analysis, Naismith and Miller I both think were and are underrated and we don't have a match winner some one like McFadden who can produce a bit of magic. I do see some encouraging signs but its potential not yet realised. Upfront is a problem though Adams is surely an upgrade on McBurnie. Goalkeeper worries me, yes they go on longer but Marshall and Gordon are both well into their 30s and as pointed out may not be as good as they were ten years ago. Striker doesn't worry me as much as a year ago. Dykes and Adams are decent players and suit Clarke's style. Nesbitt seems like the type of player who will develop each time he takes a step up in level. Nesbitt's next move is key, I hope it isn't to Rangers or Celtic. While unlikely McBurnie could eventually grow up and get his shit together (no laughing in the back). It's goalkeeper that has me severely worried. There looks to be no keeper in the next couple of years who will be ready to take over in goals from Marshall and Gordon. McCrorie was the big hope but he has stalled big time and looks like he needs a settled move to develop and get his confidence back. Doohlan needs a move from Celtic desperately aswell. I suspect when McGregor retires at the end of the season, McLaughlin could become a transitional number 1 at Rangers and basically become defacto Scotland number 1 for a couple of years. When Marshall retires or if he loses form (he'll be 39 come euro 2024). He'd be transitional in the hope Slicker, Muir, Stone, etc develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Hertsscot said: I think that's a good analysis, Naismith and Miller I both think were and are underrated and we don't have a match winner some one like McFadden who can produce a bit of magic. I do see some encouraging signs but its potential not yet realised. Upfront is a problem though Adams is surely an upgrade on McBurnie. Goalkeeper worries me, yes they go on longer but Marshall and Gordon are both well into their 30s and as pointed out may not be as good as they were ten years ago. I would have called up Zander Clark to the squad instead of McLaughlin (at least Clark is playing regular football and playing well) and given him 45 minutes vs. Luxembourg. Liam Kelly looks like he'll be playing regular football for Motherwell next season with a deal close to being agreed between Motherwell and QPR. We also need McCrorie and Doohan to get permanent moves away from the Old Firm. Loan moves for youngsters Mair and Slicker would be good to see too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkm_vancouver Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 11 hours ago, scotlad said: Most of those 2011 results will have been friendlies though. Take the friendlies out of the equation and Craig Levein's record as Scotland manager is terrible. Also, shouldn't our record this year be: P8 W2 L2 D4 ? Nope. They did include Nations Cup but also qualifiers and only a couple of friendlies. Yes I got the extra draw wring in 2021. However main point was that even knowing Levein's reign was a bit of a disaster, his 2011 team stilll performed better than the 2021 team in terms of results. Clarke has definitely made progress getting us to a tourney but for some reason, our performances have been a bit erratic since Serbia and not built on earlier momentum, despite ahving better players IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.