The news thread

[Broath Boy]

Kicking off in House of Commons, no idea what’s going on.

[TDYER63]

18 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

 

SNP just need to be careful they're not seen as playing politics on such a critical issue as no doubt their opponents will spin it. The SNP are the only ones who've been consistent on this from the start. 

I agree, but the media just cannot, ever, bring themselves to give credit where its due when it comes to the SNP. Can guarantee the SNP will be accused of being troublemakers,  rather than just admit that they are right and concentrate on what this whole thing is actually about .

[Hertsscot]

12 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I agree, but the media just cannot, ever, bring themselves to give credit where its due when it comes to the SNP. Can guarantee the SNP will be accused of being troublemakers,  rather than just admit that they are right and concentrate on what this whole thing is actually about .

Just seen Flynn on Channel 4 News with K GM. Thought he got the balance right.

[Hertsscot]

34 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Can guarantee the SNP will be accused of being troublemakers,  rather than just admit that they are right and concentrate on what this whole thing is actually about .

Lisa Nandy giving a slightly less impressive performance. Blaming Tories and SNP but not explaining why so many of her MPs would have rebelled against her own leader, not explaining why Labour has taken so long to call for an immediate ceasefire, not explaining why their amendment was so much better and would bring the House together when it so evidently did not.

[TDYER63]

18 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Just seen Flynn on Channel 4 News with K GM. Thought he got the balance right.

👍

I might just be paranoid but the first video on this link , the news bulletin , seems to be missing the point entirely. Seeing it as a ‘terrible look’ and squabbling like children, , coincidentally after showing a video of Stephen Flynn and Penny Mordaunt, and not properly focusing on the actual  reason they are angry.  Labour barely mentioned.. 
 

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-02-21/labour-says-gaza-ceasefire-plan-is-different-to-snps-ahead-of-vote

[exile]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

SNP just need to be careful they're not seen as playing politics on such a critical issue as no doubt their opponents will spin it. The SNP are the only ones who've been consistent on this from the start. 

From a quick look on Twitter, this is indeed all I see so far. "SNP and Tories" trending, SNP and Tories playing politics. This is what the casual/non political observer will only see, as the news is weigthed by the British media point of view. Which could never allow that a Scottish parliament or party could benefit from calling for something separate from the UK on foreign policy.* But let's see what emerges when the dust settles.

* I suppose Salmond's anti war speeches back in the day were reported straight, but that was presumably because they thought he was in the wrong at the time and so reflecting badly on SNP.

[exile]

6 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

👍

I might just be paranoid but the first video on this link , the news bulletin , seems to be missing the point entirely. Seeing it as a ‘terrible look’ and squabbling like children, , coincidentally after showing a video of Stephen Flynn and Penny Mordaunt, and not properly focusing on the actual  reason they are angry.  Labour barely mentioned.. 
 

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-02-21/labour-says-gaza-ceasefire-plan-is-different-to-snps-ahead-of-vote

Absolutely my point. What is seen as "the story" will be selectively framed, so it is not "missing the point", that is exactly their point. And that is all the casual obvserver will see, and it won't even look like manipulation to the casual observer, as clearly they are just showing what happened for all to see, Mordaunt here, Flynn there, plain as day, "SNP and Tories" trope enacted, nothing else to see guvn'r.

[Shaundy]

Seems like the UK msm are making up what they think about today’s circus in the commons, just as the commons make it up as they go along . Did watch a few of the many presentations but was difficult to stomach too much. 
the most extreme defence of Israel that I heard came from Ian Paisley jar . Perhaps unsurprisingly.

fukin circus that is better of not indulging with. 
just hoping things don’t go too apocalypse before mid July in Western Europe. 

[exile]

21 minutes ago, Shaundy said:

Seems like the UK msm are making up what they think about today’s circus in the commons, just as the commons make it up as they go along . Did watch a few of the many presentations but was difficult to stomach too much. 
the most extreme defence of Israel that I heard came from Ian Paisley jar . Perhaps unsurprisingly.

fukin circus that is better of not indulging with. 
just hoping things don’t go too apocalypse before mid July in Western Europe. 

I think the MSM are quite happy if the result is a collective shrug, "Westminster is awful / politicians are shysters / they're all as bad as each other". That just goes to serve the status quo.

[StirlingEgg]

21 minutes ago, exile said:

Absolutely my point. What is seen as "the story" will be selectively framed, so it is not "missing the point", that is exactly their point. And that is all the casual obvserver will see, and it won't even look like manipulation to the casual observer, as clearly they are just showing what happened for all to see, Mordaunt here, Flynn there, plain as day, "SNP and Tories" trope enacted, nothing else to see guvn'r.

For once, I'm slightly less cynical than usual about the opportunity to spin this against the SNP. The casual observer is seeing ongoing war footage and the loudest mouths (UK & US) not in a hurry to call for peace. This isn't the first time there's been a big hoo ha about semantics, previously it was that 'humanitarian pause' instead of a ceasefire nonsense. Now we've finally moved on to the word ceasefire and 3 months+ of needless suffering in the meantime. 

They are trying to drag the SNP down with the "they're all the same" line. Maybe the next time Flynn or whoever gets accused of playing politics he should say "yes we are; because we've had enough of your outdated way of governing, the longwinded procedures, the allowing of lies, the dressing up box of robes and crowns, your hypocritical & damaging foreign policies. England is welcome to revel in its own Houses of Parliament theatre. We want out." 

[Northern Light]

Sadly it's all a bit irrelevant as anyone who thinks that Netanyahu will pay the slightest bit of attention to what Westminster votes (or doesn't vote) for is kidding themselves. The only voice they will listen to is the US and I'm not even sure they will do that anymore.

[Squirrelhumper]

21 minutes ago, Northern Light said:

Sadly it's all a bit irrelevant as anyone who thinks that Netanyahu will pay the slightest bit of attention to what Westminster votes (or doesn't vote) for is kidding themselves. The only voice they will listen to is the US and I'm not even sure they will do that anymore.

Yip, sadly bang on the money.

[vanderark14]

9 hours ago, StirlingEgg said:

For once, I'm slightly less cynical than usual about the opportunity to spin this against the SNP. The casual observer is seeing ongoing war footage and the loudest mouths (UK & US) not in a hurry to call for peace. This isn't the first time there's been a big hoo ha about semantics, previously it was that 'humanitarian pause' instead of a ceasefire nonsense. Now we've finally moved on to the word ceasefire and 3 months+ of needless suffering in the meantime. 

They are trying to drag the SNP down with the "they're all the same" line. Maybe the next time Flynn or whoever gets accused of playing politics he should say "yes we are; because we've had enough of your outdated way of governing, the longwinded procedures, the allowing of lies, the dressing up box of robes and crowns, your hypocritical & damaging foreign policies. England is welcome to revel in its own Houses of Parliament theatre. We want out." 

The SNP have done well in my opinion. Labour imploded yesterday, they will probably still win the British election but they made an ass of themselves yesterday.

Jess Phillips claims the Tories were being instructed to walk slowly back to parliament to cut time to stop the vote and they were laughing about it. It's very beleiveable that tories would act this way, however its hard to believe anything from Labour right now

One thing is certain, England's representatives in Parliament showed nothing but contempt for scotlands representatives, people in Scotland need to wake up and see they are not taken seriously by the UK government.

[EddardStark]

Flynn, the SNP and the Tories had one objective. To embarrass Labour. It failed. Massive own goal for the SNP. What a charlatan.

[vanderark14]

7 minutes ago, EddardStark said:

Flynn, the SNP and the Tories had one objective. To embarrass Labour. It failed. Massive own goal for the SNP. What a charlatan.

OK I'll bite. How is this a massive own goal? 

 

[EddardStark]

2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

OK I'll bite. How is this a massive own goal? 

 

Walking out in a political stunt with the Tories is not a good look. 
The Tories are toxic. 

Edited February 22 by EddardStark

[vanderark14]

18 minutes ago, EddardStark said:

Walking out in a political stunt with the Tories is not a good look. 
The Tories are toxic. 

There's a much bigger picture to look at. What happened in Parliament was a disgrace to democracy. The motives for walking out were different but both had every right to walk out after what labour did. 

The own goal was scored by Labour and the speaker

[vanderark14]

Flynn was excellent yesterday. His only flaw at the moment is his love of Dundee United. He's better than Blackford IMO

[vanderark14]

10 hours ago, Northern Light said:

Sadly it's all a bit irrelevant as anyone who thinks that Netanyahu will pay the slightest bit of attention to what Westminster votes (or doesn't vote) for is kidding themselves. The only voice they will listen to is the US and I'm not even sure they will do that anymore.

 

9 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Yip, sadly bang on the money.

I don't think the UK alone could stop the zionists from wiping out the Palestinians but the chance of it happening increases if more countries join in calls for a ceasefire. 

 

[Hertsscot]

1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

I don't think the UK alone could stop the zionists from wiping out the Palestinians but the chance of it happening increases if more countries join in calls for a ceasefire. 

I think the policy of both Labour and Tories has encouraged Israeli right wingers to think they can get away with anything.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, EddardStark said:

Flynn, the SNP and the Tories had one objective. To embarrass Labour. It failed. Massive own goal for the SNP. What a charlatan.

Are you for real? Lets look at the facts here:-

The SNP have had the stance of complete ceasefire in Palestine since before Christmas.

Labour have flip-flopped on this matter and held off criticizing Israel to any great degree even up to the past week.

On hearing the SNP's plans to hold a complete cease fire vote they began to crap themselves and changed their stance to a slightly softer one knowing many of its own MP's would support the SNP vote.

Fearing a big split in their party caused by the vote they decided to bend all the rules bending the speaker's ear (with threats if reports are to be believed) in order to have their vote held instead on a watered down ceasefire and surprise surprise it was upheld.

Can you explain in any way that it is an SNP own goal? 

Edited February 22 by Caledonian Craig

[TDYER63]

4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Are you for real? Lets look at the facts here:-

The SNP have had the stance of complete ceasefire in Palestine since before Christmas.

Labour have flip-flopped on this matter and held off criticizing Israel to any great degree even up to the past week.

On hearing the SNP's plans to hold a complete cease fire vote they began to crap themselves and changed their stance to a slightly softer one knowing many of its own MP's would support the SNP vote.

Fearing a big split in their party caused by the vote they decided to bend all the rules bending the speaker's ear (with threats if reports are to be believed) in order to have their vote held instead on a watered down ceasefire and surprise surprise it was upheld.

Can you explain in any way that it is an SNP own goal? 

👍 

Classic example of someone believing what they wanting to believe . How anyone can spin this to blame the SNP would be laughable if the situation wasnt so serious. 

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, TDYER63 said:

👍

Classic example of someone believing what they wanting to believe . How anyone can spin this to blame the SNP would be laughable if the situation wasnt so serious. 

Precisely. And its not a case of the SNP taking advantage of the situation either as the SNP stated early in the Palestine crisis where they stood demanding cease fire. Their stance (unlike unionist parties) has remained a constant.

[PapofGlencoe]

I dont see how the SNP are to blame in any way. Nobody could have predicted the Speaker acting in this way.  

Labour colluded to bend the rules to avert a crisis using threats and intimidation of the Speaker.  That's the poor behaviour here.  It has ramifications as a precedent much more likely to cause problems than anything else yesterday.

Also, get real, we can't embarrass Labour with 55 never mind 30 MPs, if it requires siding with Conservatives when Labour are indisputably wrong that's entirely correct course of action.  to do otherwise, in fact, would be student politics. 

 

[PapofGlencoe]

Maybe it's because i'm not on twitter anymore and not seeing the tweet yer tea fluff, putrid and irrelevant policy points that have sidetracked our politicians and activists for 5 years or so, but broad brush i'm backing the SNP now.  I think a lot of people have been put off by them over pretty intolerant people within the party but, in general, I'm not hearing the same issues rearing their head into real life policy.

brass tax I'm a left wing scottish independence supporter, always have been.  I'm not going to change now.   SNP have some awful people in the party but I'm not letting that get in the way of the fundamental reasons for voting for a party.  I'm fairly sure people in Henley who vote Tory aren't amused by Boris Johnson or that crude chairman they now have but they know what side of their bread is buttered and vote accordingly.  Ultimately, if there are fifth columnists (useful idiots or otherwise) they will be drowned out by a strong vote for the SNP and independence.  They are a vehicle, they don't have to be our friends down the pub.  If something else comes along with serious ability to take the movement forward, i'll check it out but as it stands I'm back to the SNP.

on the other hand, i don't want to be forced to vote for them forever and I may not vote for them at Holyrood.  but at UK level, i can't see past an SNP vote.