UEFA nations league 20/21

[todd]

21 minutes ago, dohadeer said:

The playoff spots should be filled from the top down. It’s crazy to give playoff spots to teams in Leagues C and D, if there are teams from League A or B who have missed out.

That’s like if England gave their Champions League places to the winners of the four divisions (Premier League, Championship, Leagues One and Two) rather than the top four teams in the Premier League.

Obviously when handing out qualification places in a league system, you should fill from the top down. You don’t penalise teams for being in a higher league, and start handing out places to lower leagues first, that’s ridiculous. 

So we have earned the right by getting promoted? 👍😁

[dohadeer]

1 minute ago, todd said:

So we have earned the right by getting promoted? 👍😁

Under the current system of 24 teams, yes.

Unfortunately for us, the format has just changed, hasn’t it? So now there are 32 teams altogether in Leagues A and B, with only 24 places to be filled. 🙁

Some may say, ‘Just our luck.’

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, dohadeer said:

That’s not what I was referring to, I was meaning the ‘sympathy spots’ handed out to Leagues D and C.

Northern Ireland earned their playoff spot by virtue of their ranking. You can’t penalise them for being ranked high enough to end up in a tougher group!

So you should just he handed a playoff place because of your ranking? 

Yes, that seems a fair system. 🤔

[dohadeer]

7 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

So you should just he handed a playoff place because of your ranking? 

Yes, that seems a fair system. 🤔

Sorry, that’s not what I meant. I didn’t explain that very clearly. I meant by your Nations League position, rather than your ranking.

Northern Ireland earned their playoff spot by virtue of their Nations League position, which they earned by virtue of their ranking. Was what I meant.

 

[Texas Pete]

Just now, dohadeer said:

Sorry, that’s not what I meant. I didn’t explain that very clearly. I meant by your Nations League position, rather than your ranking.

Northern Ireland earned their playoff spot by virtue of their Nations League position, which they earned by virtue of their ranking. Was what I meant.

 

Northern Ireland performed abysmally in the Nations League. They lost all of their matches in a very average group. They only secured a playoff thanks to the way UEFA ensured all League B teams got a playoff regardless of how crap they were in the NL. That was a very deliberate move by UEFA to provide a safety net for any higher ranked countries that made an arse of the qualifiers.

If you are looking for a fair system then the playoff places should have been achieved by finishing 3rd in the qualifying groups.

Personally, I like the fact all group winners got a playoff as it must be soul destroying for teams like the Faroes and San Marino as they always knew there was no way they’d qualify. Now they have a chance. Whether that’s 100% fair or not doesn’t really matter. It wasn’t 100% fair that Northern Ireland were more or less guaranteed a playoff regardless of how they performed in the NL but we can only abide by the rules UEFA put in front of us. 

[ceudmilefailte]

7 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Topping our Nations League group this year wouldn’t guarantee a World Cup playoff. 

The playoffs will also be seeded. They always are.  

Avoiding Russia would give us a good chance of winning our group. I shudder to think what would happen to us in League A in 2022 if we got promoted though. 

We might learn something?

[Texas Pete]

1 minute ago, ceudmilefailte said:

We might learn something?

Our keeper would certainly learn how to pick the ball out of the back of the net. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to get to League A. It would almost guarantee us a playoff for Euro 2024 assuming they do it the same way as this time. We’d likely get passed around like a scud book in that division though. 

[dohadeer]

2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Northern Ireland performed abysmally in the Nations League. They lost all of their matches in a very average group. They only secured a playoff thanks to the way UEFA ensured all League B teams got a playoff regardless of how crap they were in the NL. That was a very deliberate move by UEFA to provide a safety net for any higher ranked countries that made an arse of the qualifiers.

If you are looking for a fair system then the playoff places should have been achieved by finishing 3rd in the qualifying groups.

Personally, I like the fact all group winners got a playoff as it must be soul destroying for teams like the Faroes and San Marino as they always knew there was no way they’d qualify. Now they have a chance. Whether that’s 100% fair or not doesn’t really matter. It wasn’t 100% fair that Northern Ireland were more or less guaranteed a playoff regardless of how they performed in the NL but we can only abide by the rules UEFA put in front of us. 

With regards to the Faroes and San Marino, that’s how a league system works though. There’s a pecking order. Cowdenbeath know that no matter how well they play this season, they won’t qualify for the Champions League. Their carrot is promotion, just as the Faroes and San Marino’s carrot is promotion.

I don’t really like the current playoff ‘paths’ with four teams, rather than playoffs with two teams, which I agree could have been achieved using the qualifying groups. (Incidentally, Scotland would have missed out on a playoff under that format, as one of the two worst third-placed teams, for anyone who thinks we may have hade a better chance that way!)

However, once UEFA decided to hand out multiple playoff places to the Nations League, that should have been done on the basis of merit. It’s a very risky business once you start handing out places further down the pecking order, as it takes away sporting integrity. (Teams may now find themselves with the option to deliberately lose a match, in order to earn an easier route in future.) 

I hope and suspect that this may end up being a one-off experiment, and places will have to be earned solely on merit in future. It will be a bit galling this summer, if we see our run without a finals being extended to at least 24 years, and have to watch the League D winners taking an undeserved place at the finals, a place which could potentially have been ours under a fairer system.

[ceudmilefailte]

5 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Our keeper would certainly learn how to pick the ball out of the back of the net. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to get to League A. It would almost guarantee us a playoff for Euro 2024 assuming they do it the same way as this time. We’d likely get passed around like a scud book in that division though. 

Would be a pretty steep learning curve.

As usual in the run up to a game I am starting to believe, roll on the injuries and an idiotic team selection so I can get put back in my place.

[Texas Pete]

Just now, ceudmilefailte said:

Would be a pretty steep learning curve.

As usual in the run up to a game I am starting to believe, roll on the injuries and an idiotic team selection so I can get put back in my place.

I am always optimistic on the run up to a game. Not sure why after all these years of disappointment.

I am also naive enough to hope VAR might help us in that we shouldn’t get beat by a dodgy decision. It will probably be our own shiteyness that will do that. 😂

 

[todd]

2 hours ago, dohadeer said:

Under the current system of 24 teams, yes.

Unfortunately for us, the format has just changed, hasn’t it? So now there are 32 teams altogether in Leagues A and B, with only 24 places to be filled. 🙁

Some may say, ‘Just our luck.’

So we haven't won the right through bad timing? I give up! 

Edited February 29, 2020 by todd

[dohadeer]

10 minutes ago, todd said:

So we haven't won the right through bad timing? I give up! 

??

Well, obviously not. There are only 24 finals places, but there are now 32 teams in Leagues A and B. So the format will have to change for the next European Championship finals. Being in League A or B is obviously not now enough to earn a playoff place, as there are now too many teams.

[todd]

17 minutes ago, dohadeer said:

??

Well, obviously not. There are only 24 finals places, but there are now 32 teams in Leagues A and B. So the format will have to change for the next European Championship finals. Being in League A or B is obviously not now enough to earn a playoff place, as there are now too many teams.

??????????????????????

[dohadeer]

2 minutes ago, todd said:

??????????????????????

I think that we’re at cross-purposes here, because I’m thinking the same thing!!

What are you asking me?

[todd]

2 minutes ago, dohadeer said:

I think that we’re at cross-purposes here, because I’m thinking the same thing!!

What are you asking me?

I'm asking myself why i got involved in a debate with a condescending self righteous bawbag.  For shame me! 

[dohadeer]

22 minutes ago, todd said:

I'm asking myself why i got involved in a debate with a condescending self righteous bawbag.  For shame me! 

How am I being condescending?

[Rich NATA]

On 2/28/2020 at 12:09 PM, Terry Munro said:

Pot 1: Russia, Austria, Wales, Czech Republic
Pot 2: Scotland, Norway, Serbia, Finland
Pot 3: Slovakia, Turkey, Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland
Pot 4: Bulgaria, Israel, Hungary, Romania

Favourable in the footballing sense: 

Czech Republic... Either of the Ireland's... Debateable, but I'd think Bulgaria.

 

Travel: 

I'd opt for Austria, Turkey and Bulgaria (never been to any of those).

 

My employers have ruled out any holiday in September (they said so months ago) so I'm a tad anxious about that; hoping if we are away in September it will be to Wales on the Saturday.

 

Looking at a map, there's potential for some good away double-headers there; Czech & Slovakia; Austria & Slovakia; Austria & Hungary; Slovakia & Hungary.

[romanticscot]

IF...and I stress IF we were to be qualify for League A and we lose every single game and finish bottom of the league and supposing the EURO 2026 setup is the same, everyone auto qualified with the exception of Iceland who landed in a playoff spot, we would very likely be guaranteed a play off spot and look at who Iceland's playoff group includes, low ranked league C teams.   Getting promoted to B was the best thing for us and where I think our level realistically is, if we fluked into A we have won the lottery, and even remaining in B would be fantastic for a play off spot, just at a higher competitive standard and than if we went up to A.

I think the play offs will be a better path for us, and going into normal qualification groups knowing we have that in the bank, barring a really tough group gives us a mental state to say lets go for it guys, nothing to lose.   

 

 

[dohadeer]

3 hours ago, romanticscot said:

IF...and I stress IF we were to be qualify for League A and we lose every single game and finish bottom of the league and supposing the EURO 2026 setup is the same, everyone auto qualified with the exception of Iceland who landed in a playoff spot, we would very likely be guaranteed a play off spot and look at who Iceland's playoff group includes, low ranked league C teams.   Getting promoted to B was the best thing for us and where I think our level realistically is, if we fluked into A we have won the lottery, and even remaining in B would be fantastic for a play off spot, just at a higher competitive standard and than if we went up to A.

I think the play offs will be a better path for us, and going into normal qualification groups knowing we have that in the bank, barring a really tough group gives us a mental state to say lets go for it guys, nothing to lose.   

 

 

I have a few issues (surprise, surprise).....

Firstly, obviously 2026 is a World Cup year, not a European Championship year.

Secondly, I think it will take a decade or so for the Nations League format to settle down and for them to come up with the format that works best. It’s already changed, with there now being 16 teams in Leagues A and B, instead of 12. So being in the top two leagues in future won’t quite provide the same guarantees it did this time.

It will be interesting to see if they persist with easy routes to the finals for lower leagues, or if that’s done away with. Also, obviously there are now massive differences between World Cup cycles and European Championship cycles, given that the former requires only 13 European qualifiers, whereas the latter requires 24.

Finally, League B looks to be exactly our standard, (teams from 17-32 in Europe.) From time to time we may go up or down from there, but we’d be very likely to bounce straight back to League B again. So, I don’t think that the benefits of League A are going to affect us very often.

(Again, I find it a bit bemusing that any Scotland fans would be discussing being in League A, at this moment in time!)

[romanticscot]

I am not going to deny considering being in League A is bonkers. I hang my head in shame at getting the years wrong, no excuse on that one. 

[AndyDD]

Austria, NI and either of Bulgaria or Romania would be lovely. 

Win or lose on 26th, I'd rather no get Israel two nations league groups in a row, especially since i'd again skip the away game. Romania or Bulgaria would be a class trip. 

[PASTA Mick]

On 2/28/2020 at 12:09 PM, Terry Munro said:

Pot 1: Russia, Austria, Wales, Czech Republic
Pot 2: Scotland, Norway, Serbia, Finland
Pot 3: Slovakia, Turkey, Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland
Pot 4: Bulgaria, Israel, Hungary, Romania

I'd love to go back to Graz - easily one of my favourite away trips.  I've not been to Russia but also fancy going to Czech Rep again.

I've never been to Turkey or Slovakia so wouldn't mind them but think Northern Ireland gives us the best chance of winning.  

Israel or Romania for travel as I've not been to either but Bulgaria wouldn't be too bad either.

[Squirrelhumper]

What time is the draw tomorrow?

[romanticscot]

18 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

What time is the draw tomorrow?

Well you just brought the discussion back on-point way to go. Some of the squabbles on here are amusing to read , usually when news is lean.  I like the Nations League, I thought it was a good idea to make international dates meaningful.  I would like to see B internationals brought back so we try other formations and players.  

[Squirrelhumper]

1 minute ago, romanticscot said:

Well you just brought the discussion back on-point way to go. Some of the squabbles on here are amusing to read , usually when news is lean.  I like the Nations League, I thought it was a good idea to make international dates meaningful.  I would like to see B internationals brought back so we try other formations and players.  

Was a genuine question - anyone know the time?