hampden_loon2878 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Await devo max proposal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Await devo max proposal From who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Await devo max proposal If Scotland was subsidised by the rest of the UK it would be offered in a heartbeat It isnt and England needs Scotland's resources to do Brexit fully Edited December 13, 2019 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviebee Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Await devo max proposal Who's going to offer you that? More likely to shut Holyrood down and fully assimilate us into Greater England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Boris approached sturgeon after the 2015 election and asked what she would want in a devo style set up to stop the indy surge, i see him revisiting this Edited December 13, 2019 by hampden_loon2878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfieMoon Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Await devo max proposal The variety of responses on the Scottish results programmes was interesting last night. Pretty much started with Henry McLeish and Paulines McNeill backing up the SNP that they Tories cannot democratically ignore and deny the SNP win. Some other Labour voices then sporadically chucking in the usual aimless devo max. Things then hardened when they got the likes of Neil Findlay and Alex Cole Hamilton only interested in drawing a hard line and taking aim at the SNP. The Tories never budged an inch and only real line was that the SNP didn't win because they didn't get 50%+ of the vote and also that indyref was once in a generation. AC Hamilton also adopted this ridiculous %age argument as well. The response of McLeish and McNeill early on made me optimistic that maybe, just maybe the Labour party will at some point move from their uniform opposition to independence. What came later however showed the bitterness as to why that can't happen even despite the damage they've done themselves since 2014. The Labour answer to Scotland's problems is always a Labour government. Here we are now subjected to another 5 years of Tory rule. For Labour, they're happy to chuck us under the bus in hope of future power in 5, 10, 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Boris approached sturgeon after the 2015 election and asked what she would want in a devo style set up to stop the indy surge, i see him revisiting this I think you might be putting your "mystic" status on the line a wee bit with that prediction, but you've been right before so............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Boris approached sturgeon after the 2015 election and asked what she would want in a devo style set up to stop the indy surge, i see him revisiting this He Needed Nicola then, he doesnt now.... we will be ignored , we will hear 2021 ad nauseum win that and game is on Indy ref 2 spring 2022 IMO. better chance of winning then than next year, The next year or two will be Thatcher after the Falklands with bells on....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviebee Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said: The variety of responses on the Scottish results programmes was interesting last night. Pretty much started with Henry McLeish and Paulines McNeill backing up the SNP that they Tories cannot democratically ignore and deny the SNP win. Some other Labour voices then sporadically chucking in the usual aimless devo max. Things then hardened when they got the likes of Neil Findlay and Alex Cole Hamilton only interested in drawing a hard line and taking aim at the SNP. The Tories never budged an inch and only real line was that the SNP didn't win because they didn't get 50%+ of the vote and also that indyref was once in a generation. AC Hamilton also adopted this ridiculous %age argument as well. The response of McLeish and McNeill early on made me optimistic that maybe, just maybe the Labour party will at some point move from their uniform opposition to independence. What came later however showed the bitterness as to why that can't happen even despite the damage they've done themselves since 2014. The Labour answer to Scotland's problems is always a Labour government. Here we are now subjected to another 5 years of Tory rule. For Labour, they're happy to chuck us under the bus in hope of future power in 5, 10, 15 years. Sadly they can and they will. Last night gave them carte blanche to do whatever TF they like with us. I was hoping for an SNP landslide up here and chaos and upheaval in a hung parliament down there. The thought of what's coming scares the sh*t out of me as does the fact folk actually voted for it. As for Labour, they'll NEVER get over their sense of entitlement or their outrage at "thae essennpee bastirts" stealing their toys. You'll need another 30 years before the last of their dinosaurs die off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I think you might be putting your "mystic" status on the line a wee bit with that prediction, but you've been right before so............ Even just a token gesture, that is put forward in a way that the snp have to reject, he can then say he “tried” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Boris approached sturgeon after the 2015 election and asked what she would want in a devo style set up to stop the indy surge, i see him revisiting this She knocked it back then, I doubt it would be any different now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Last night was a great result for the SNP and Scotland purely in my own opinion. However, it was an awful result that saw the Tories march back into power with a good majority with the power to now push through whatever Brexit they wish. As far as what it means for independence well I have no doubt BoJo will point blank refuse calls for an indyref. Now at present support for independence is averaging around 45% in polls so would waiting be the end of the world? Allow BoJo to show the union up for what is is - unwilling to listen to Scotland's voice and more people will join the Yes bus. And more surely will join once Brexit is signed and sealed and maybe more again when the effect of Brexit begins to bite. By then I'd be gobsmacked if polls did not have the support for Yes at 50%+ and up towards that magic 60% mark. In short ..... patience everyone. One thing I am sure of is that I cannot see a resurgence in unionism to lower the Yes vote in polls down to the levels of 20 years ago or so. The genie is out of the bottle. BoJo and future Westminster PM's have that added problem ....how to stifle the rise in calls for Scottish independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 hours ago, aaid said: 😂😂 you have absolutely no idea how accurate that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Boris approached sturgeon after the 2015 election and asked what she would want in a devo style set up to stop the indy surge, i see him revisiting this This was before Brexit right ? If the cat is not out the bag of who subsidises who in this Union then it's about to be unless people dont want to see it There will be no England/Wales only Brexit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Looks like the reason Anne McLaughlin re-took Glasgow North East was by making drug policy reform her main issue in a constituency with significant drug addiction issues. Smart move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny79 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Exciting times ahead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Spot on Bernard:- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Quote And the SNP? Well, the SNP failed too. Because having expressly told voters that the election wasn’t about independence but about stopping Brexit, they won 13 more seats, but seats which have zero leverage at Westminster and will be able to do absolutely nothing to prevent the UK leaving the EU seven weeks from now. For all Scotland’s renewed “STOP BREXIT” message, Brexit will not be stopped. The UK, and Scotland with it, will depart next month. We can’t help but note at this point that if the party had taken our advice and done a deal with the Tories in October to let Brexit pass in return for Section 30 powers, we’d now have an indyref in the bag (which we’d win) and as a parting gift to our southern kin we’d also have saved England from having a thumping great Tory majority for the foreseeable future. Hindsight, eh? From Wings. Is he not right here? Plus the deal was staying in the EU in all but name... now we will get a proper hard BREXIT. And all for what? these new MPs which are effectively useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkieRobRoy Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Gutting. Absolutely gutting. Yes, independence is a must, now, but it raises all kinds of other issues. If we manage to get in/stay in to the EU, do we have a hard border with rUK? How badly will it affect us that our nearest neighbour is heading for the economic pits in non-EU isolationism? How vengeful will the downright nasty Bonzo be if we vote to leave? I can see the Tories getting a bit Spanish. Not because they want us, but because they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, thplinth said: From Wings. Is he not right here? Plus the deal was staying in the EU in all but name... now we will get a proper hard BREXIT. And all for what? these new MPs which are effectively useless. Far too simplistic for me. The Tories would not have done such a deal of that I am certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, thplinth said: From Wings. Is he not right here? Plus the deal was staying in the EU in all but name... now we will get a proper hard BREXIT. And all for what? these new MPs which are effectively useless. Do you think Boris will go after a different deal (or even No Deal) now that he has got a majority, or just stick with what he has already agreed with the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Far too simplistic for me. The Tories would not have done such a deal of that I am certain. Maybe we should have at least tried. BJ and the Tories were in a very unpleasant situation prior to the SNP agreeing to the GE. 7 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Do you think Boris will go after a different deal (or even No Deal) now that he has got a majority, or just stick with what he has already agreed with the EU? I think we are now getting some form of hard BREXIT. If it was a hung parliament we would have got a new referendum. Edited December 13, 2019 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 39 minutes ago, thplinth said: From Wings. Is he not right here? Plus the deal was staying in the EU in all but name... now we will get a proper hard BREXIT. And all for what? these new MPs which are effectively useless. The SNP would have been hammered had they done a deal with the Tories and this would have carried on and had an impact in a referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, thplinth said: Maybe we should have at least tried. BJ and the Tories were in a very unpleasant situation prior to the SNP agreeing to the GE. I think we are now getting some form of hard BREXIT. If it was a hung parliament we would have got a new referendum. I really do think if that was possible it would have been tried. I do agree with you that I would not rule out a much harder Brexit now but that would only feed the support for a Yes vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, thplinth said: Maybe we should have at least tried. BJ and the Tories were in a very unpleasant situation prior to the SNP agreeing to the GE. Boris was getting his election no matter what the SNP did. The SNP didn't vote for this election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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